Please help / old horse being missold

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Puglover9521

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so I was having a little browse last night like you do to see where the horse market is at (there was no love island lol) and I saw a horse that I owned 4/5 years ago.

The horse in question was what everyone deemed to be a ‘misser’.. I bought her from Ireland and was sent lovely videos of her riding away when she was 3.5. She arrived to me and was a lovely person - great with everyone, loved a fuss, very amenable in hand, long reining/ lunging etc. we didn’t have a saddle for her as like they do from Ireland, she came with nothing and was as a typical round native and a difficult saddle fit and as I got her during Covid it was a few months before we were able to get a saddle fitter out. During the wait for the saddler she was grand for lunging and long reining and a real lovely stamp and I thought I’d really landed on my feet with her.

Cue the first clue something wasn’t right - during the saddle fitting appt she was as very unsettled from the minute a saddle went on, very tense. The minute the girth went on, even more tense, walked out from the stable and the minute she hit the arena floor it was a task to keep hold of her - off she went bucking and broncing - totally out of character from the amenable mare we’d known for months. The saddle fitter was happy with the fit but we decided to get her scoped for ulcers as her response was so extreme. Scope came back clear.

So we worked on the saddle being on and her getting used to it as she seemed so unhappy with it (which was odd as all the videos she seemed happily riding away lovely). When she seemed happy with the saddle (a month or so later of popping it on every day and taking her for a walk) we began to put some weight over and she seemed ok. Persisted with this for a while longer to be sure she was happy until the day we decided to try and pop a leg over. Categorically no was her response and there’s still a board in the arena with a dint in the shape of my behind.

Was then sent a video from someone I didn’t know on social media of her broncing like mad with tack on supposedly after she had been backed etc which made me think perhaps she had a physical issue.

So then we got her xrayed for kissing spine to the tune of thousands. Again all clear. The vet and the physio could find no physical problem with her at all and both thought she was in good (if getting a touch fat) nick. Decided to consult with pro riders and horse behaviourists. Again no joy and them all finding her unpredictable with tack / mounting and them advising she didn’t look likely to be a rideable horse.

As there was nothing physically wrong with her and she was very very well bred and had had really good showing results in hand as a youngster (champ and reserve champion multiple times) we sold her as brood mare / In hand showing only and disclosed every single one of her issues and made it clear for her to not be ridden. I sold her disclosing all of these issues for much less than what I’d bought her for and was assured she’d never be ridden and they were to contact me if they needed to ever rehome her.

The advert I have seen states that they’ve only had her a couple of months and that she was backed at 6 (she was backed at 3) and is now 8 and is green but potential for a kids all rounder. She’s being sold as a project as they haven’t any time for her, that she’s an all round potential but she has ‘issues with tack and being mounted as she has been passed around and now has trust issues and anxiety’ and she would make a good potential brood mare. Also being sold dirt cheap (2k) with ‘all tack and rugs’.

Have also since learned she has had a still born foal. My heart is broken.

The fact the same issues are being named 5 years later, I feel so mad at myself that i trusted in other people and truly believed she was going to be a brood mare to then see all this has broken me

Please someone tell me what to do because I need to stop this vicious circle and I really just want to buy her again to just put a stop to it all and let her have a life living in the field or do what needs to be done to stop this all happening again. My heart is broken
 
nagblagger said:
If you have the finances and land what is stopping you going to see her?
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Have neither really - now have an ex racer (he has been my saviour her really has been a blessing to me and looks after me and my daughter like we’re made out of glass) on livery. Couldn’t really afford another. Don’t know the person selling my old mare, just saw her advert this weekend and didn’t know if to message with her history or ask to see her etc.
 
Puglover9521 said:
Have neither really - now have an ex racer (he has been my saviour her really has been a blessing to me and looks after me and my daughter like we’re made out of glass) on livery. Couldn’t really afford another. Don’t know the person selling my old mare, just saw her advert this weekend and didn’t know if to message with her history or ask to see her etc.
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I can't imagine that going to see her unless you are planning to buy and secure her a home with you is going to cause anything other than more heartbreak. Sad as it is.
 
That is the sad fact that horses sold as not suitable for riding face. They have always got the potential to be sold on as a “project”

They are at least saying she has issues but that only means it’s likely the cycle will include bin ends who have a go and pass on to worse and worse homes. I personally couldn’t tolerate that. I’d want to get the mare back and either pts immediately or put in a field if I could afford it.

Do you still have your young horse turned away? Could she go in with her?
 
Equi said:
That is the sad fact that horses sold as not suitable for riding face. They have always got the potential to be sold on as a “project”

They are at least saying she has issues but that only means it’s likely the cycle will include bin ends who have a go and pass on to worse and worse homes. I personally couldn’t tolerate that. I’d want to get the mare back and either pts immediately or put in a field if I could afford it.
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This is what hurts my heart. The only reason I didn’t get her PTS was as she was only 4 and so well bred with such a good showing record in hand. Her breeding was the best of the best. I can only assume that her having the still born foal made her also in their eyes, no good for breeding.

Really wish I’d just had her PTS now but I let everyone and their dog tell me she would be a fantastic brood mare with all her brenig / Menai / nebo lines

I’m heartbroken. I tried my best with getting her scoped / xrayed and the physio and vet I felt like I couldn’t have done more
 
Equi said:
That is the sad fact that horses sold as not suitable for riding face. They have always got the potential to be sold on as a “project”

They are at least saying she has issues but that only means it’s likely the cycle will include bin ends who have a go and pass on to worse and worse homes. I personally couldn’t tolerate that. I’d want to get the mare back and either pts immediately or put in a field if I could afford it.

Do you still have your young horse turned away? Could she go in with her?
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No I have an ex racer now who has been worth his weight in gold.

I really want to buy her back and do the right thing by her but financially I don’t have the funds and would have to get a loan really which is putting me off but it’s literally kept me awake last night worrying I feel like I need to do something but I don’t know what
 
If it was a horse I knew, I'd first contact the seller to make them aware of the history - they may not know the full story, and may have believed what they were told by the person they bought her from. That may be enough to change the course of what could happen to the mare. Perhaps they would at that point drop the price, which could allow you to take back control of her future and ensure she's never passed on again.

In all honesty, if that didn't work, I'd be considering putting a publicly available statement out - just the facts, so others go to view her with open eyes, and so you know you have tried to protect the safety of other people - and tried to safeguard the mare too.

Having worked with a few Welshes over the years, some of them older who'd had long-term issues, it may just take someone who is able to gain her trust and confidence by working with her how she needs to be worked with, especially if all veterinary investigations came back clear. I'm not saying there couldn't still be an issue, but Welshes can be an acquired taste as they can seem to hold on to traumas more deeply than some other horses, and can seem quite screwy if you don't realise how deeply and genuinely they have been upset, and quite how much they need old memories overlaying and resetting.

(I'm not saying other horses aren't like this, they absolutely can be. But often the traits bred for, especially from in hand lines, can mean that those Welshes are quite expressive/fiery/explosive as that's what's desired for in the show ring and hence those are the traits which are enhanced through selective breeding. So that's how they can tend to be in other areas of their life too, with seemingly tiny things being such a big deal unless they're shown how to handle and cope with them so they are calm, confident and content. Equally, some Welshes can be much more relaxed than others - I am not trying to say I think they're all like this.)

It sounds like she was quite young when first backed, and sometimes it can take quite a bit to unpick everything. Hopefully she will land on her feet somewhere if you can't have her back.
 
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Puglover9521 said:
This is what hurts my heart. The only reason I didn’t get her PTS was as she was only 4 and so well bred with such a good showing record in hand. Her breeding was the best of the best. I can only assume that her having the still born foal made her also in their eyes, no good for breeding.

Really wish I’d just had her PTS now but I let everyone and their dog tell me she would be a fantastic brood mare with all her brenig / Menai / nebo lines
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I would not say a mare who has such undiagnosed issues would be a good brood mare prospect at all.

It is unlikely that she has just decided that riding isn't for her, so there is most likely a physical issue, especially as you say that all the basic work was done in a calm way. Just because you vet can't find it doesn't mean it isn't there.

Apart from the issue that any fault or weakness may be passed on, being mated, then, pregnant, then foaling is itself harder work than carrying a rider.

I would buy her back and do the right thing for her now, which would likely be PTS if you can't fund a retirement.


Puglover9521 said:
I really want to buy her back and do the right thing by her but financially I don’t have the funds and would have to get a loan really which is putting me off but it’s literally kept me awake last night worrying I feel like I need to do something but I don’t know what
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She is for sale at 2K? And they would likely take 1.5K?

I would take the loan, buy her and PTS. After all, you got the money from her when you sold her.

I guess you know this would be the correct thing to do as you were awake last night worrying about it.
 
The reality is that there’s not much you can do unless you buy her back. Drop a message to the owner and fill them in on the history and see if there’s any wiggle room on price. But be prepared to have to fork out a bit of money to do the right thing.

A timely reminder though that moving on problem horses (particularly young ones) as companions/broodmares generally only over ends badly for the horse. A mare with a history of unpredictable behaviour, no matter how well bred, is not a good candidate for breeding from.
 
I would disclose her history, offer to buy her for £500 and have her back. If you can’t keep her then have her PTS which is what the responsible thing would have been originally.

Mares like this should not be broodmares- there’s either a physical reason they won’t tolerate being ridden- which is likely to also impact them when carrying the extra weight of a foal- or something wrong with the temperament, in which case they shouldn’t be bred either
 
If they are declaring her issues they aren’t mis-selling her as such, just doing what you did initially and trying to rehome as a broodmare or a project (appreciate you didn’t rehome as a project!). The only real option to secure her future is to buy her back yourself. Maybe contact them privately and explain the situation, you might be surprised at the response.
 
TheMule said:
I would disclose her history, offer to buy her for £500 and have her back. If you can’t keep her then have her PTS which is what the responsible thing would have been originally.

Mares like this should not be broodmares- there’s either a physical reason they won’t tolerate being ridden- which is likely to also impact them when carrying the extra weight of a foal- or something wrong with the temperament, in which case they shouldn’t be bred either
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Agree. There are now far too many, too-closely bred, over-sensitive Section Ds with ‘issues’.
Forget how beautifully bred you believe her to be, no one needs another - as this mare’s history proves.
Do not perpetuate!
The only other thing she might do, particularly coming from Ireland and long reining so nicely, is drive. But if she throws a paddy in the trap, can be far more dangerous than under saddle. You’d need to spend a long time with her in a drag sled, long reining all around, to have that confidence, and could more easily buy one already going sweetly and safely.
You could alert the sales site as to her unsuitability for the advertised purpose, but basically the current owners need her off their plate, will get her off their plate one way or another, and I don’t really blame them.
 
Puglover9521 said:
This is what hurts my heart. The only reason I didn’t get her PTS was as she was only 4 and so well bred with such a good showing record in hand. Her breeding was the best of the best. I can only assume that her having the still born foal made her also in their eyes, no good for breeding.

Really wish I’d just had her PTS now but I let everyone and their dog tell me she would be a fantastic brood mare with all her brenig / Menai / nebo lines

I’m heartbroken. I tried my best with getting her scoped / xrayed and the physio and vet I felt like I couldn’t have done more
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I can fully understand that, it can be very hard to pts a seemingly healthy animal just because it won’t tolerate a rider. There could be so many reasons why or there could be none and she just doesn’t want a rider. But we are where we are now and the only thing you can do is either get her back or at least ensure the seller has all the information.
 
Unfortunately both you and the current owner have been stung.
Time to put a stop to this for the mare's sake and for any future owners, particularly as she is being sold cheaply as a future kids allrounder.

I don't think £2k for an unrideable Welsh D is cheap at all, even with tack and rugs thrown in.
Offer £500 and they can sell the tack and rugs themselves.

In hand showing can be fun :) Good luck.
 
Poor mare. Do the right thing by her if you can do it at all, buy her and have her PTS as quickly as possible.

It doesn’t sound like she’s being missold, they’re being open about what they know.
 
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