Please help pony has turned into Satan!

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Rosiesk

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My daughters Welsh a has turned into a nightmare,

bought him earlier this year and was an absolute angel in all ways we’ve had a cracking summer … mildly started snatching reins in august, so had dentist out changed bit and also changed saddle as that had cause him a bit of pain, had a holiday with a rest because of this, restarted and all was fine. Then the napping started which little one has dealt with very well so isn’t a major issue anymore, I’m not sure if this has started because one of the mares in his field has formed a bit of an unhealthy obsession and gets very upset if he is removed from the field … roll onto winter where unfortunately he is now being ridden 2x a week as it’s dark/too wet/freezing …

He is now breaking out of the field 4x per day every day even though he has ad lib hay and there is grass (albeit short) his ground and ridden manners are absolutely atrocious with little one he will drag her off because he knows that she isn’t strong enough he will also start nipping if he doesn’t get his own way. She hacked him out yesterday and the usual superstar pony who is safe to let my 3 year old giggler ride has become a het up muppet near enough bolting home if I hadn’t of got hold of him.

The most frustrating thing is that I know he can be worth his weight in gold as I’ve witnessed it with my own eyes, little one is adamant to work through it but I am starting to lose faith in him. I am experienced with naughty ponies but when you have a child on board it becomes very hard to watch, and unfortunately I am a tad heavy even though he knows full well who is on board so a bigger rider wouldn’t be an option.
 
KittenInTheTree said:
What is the fencing like that he's able to get out?
What is he fed, including any supplements and/or treats?
Has he been checked for things like PSSM?
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It’s all mains electric tape but he will just walk straight through it, he’s having chaff (non molassed) and fast fibre 1x per day,

he hasn’t been tested pssm, we’ve only had him since June and he’s only 6
 
PinkvSantaboots said:
Firstly it sounds like his not getting enough exercise twice a week is not a lot even my 18 year old Arab would be lethal in winter.

What feed is he getting and how long is he out in the field?
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I’ve been meaning to add 2 more days in either lungeing or long reining but last few weeks have been chaos with flu and Xmas etc unfortunately we don’t have the facilities for when she’s home from school. But I shall start him back up to 4 days, it is like he needs a good burn!
He’s out from 7am - 4 pm, would leave him out 24/7 but unfortunately he can’t be trusted
 
He needs more work. Can you get a sharer/you lead him out/lunge/long rein?

I have a little Welsh A who is 3.5yo and I had hoped would be happy being ridden every other day in winter, having only been backed last month. But no, absolutely not, either we take her with us on the lead on her non-ridden days, or she jumps out to come too. She’s beyond perfect being ridden off or on lead, or ponied from another horse - comes with us like an Angel, walked calmly along a narrow track today while we had a herd of nutty TBs racing back and forth next to us, never spooks… but her angelic mask is only in place if we entertain her daily!!!!
 
How long as he been on the fast fibre?

I started using FF as a carrier for supplement for my young horse. He started becoming a bit of a twit, nothing awful but spooky and just getting ‘silly’/het up when he’s normally Mr chill. I decided to stop his feed. Reintroduced his feed with just some soaked grass pellets as a carrier and his normal saintly service has resumed so can only assume it was something in the FF. Maybe worth cutting feed out?

Mine also tends to get very hangry this time of year with the reduced grass intake. In the summer they have access to a lot more varieties of grass and hedge rows. For a 16hh lump of an ID he is also a super escape artist. After seeming some threads on here about equine biome I have started feeding some oily herbs (rosemary, oregano and thyme) and I really do think this has helped with his ‘hangryness’. He seems more content with limited grass intake and isn’t so desperate for food, he hasn’t tried to escape once despite the grass definitely being greener on the other side!
 
ImmyS said:
How long as he been on the fast fibre?

I started using FF as a carrier for supplement for my young horse. He started becoming a bit of a twit, nothing awful but spooky and just getting ‘silly’/het up when he’s normally Mr chill. I decided to stop his feed. Reintroduced his feed with just some soaked grass pellets as a carrier and his normal saintly service has resumed so can only assume it was something in the FF. Maybe worth cutting feed out?

Mine also tends to get very hangry this time of year with the reduced grass intake. In the summer they have access to a lot more varieties of grass and hedge rows. For a 16hh lump of an ID he is also a super escape artist. After seeming some threads on here about equine biome I have started feeding some oily herbs (rosemary, oregano and thyme) and I really do think this has helped with his ‘hangryness’. He seems more content with limited grass intake and isn’t so desperate for food, he hasn’t tried to escape once despite the grass definitely being greener on the other side!
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I recently posted about our horse who had turned Into a nightmare. As the post above we think it is being hangry when the grass is limited. Now the frost has gone he is back on strip grazing and back to being quiet. Looking back over the years his behaviour does seem to relate to the grass running out even though they are fed haylage to compensate.
 
I agree with the above posters re cutting the FF. I would try supplementing with soaked hay as this has a lower feed value, or straw mixed with hay. Something low value so you can feed more and he always has food to go at.

Some horses/ponies are not suited to plain electric fencing. They learn to take the moment of discomfort for the bigger gain. You can replace the plastic posts with round wooden ones, they don't take much to knock in. Then you can get cheap half-round rails and do a single rail with electric above and below. This is what I have to separate the paddocks within the field. It is worth doing, ours has lasted 20 years as no one touches the fence due to the electric. With the cheaper posts and rail, it didn't cost a fortune.

As for the ridden stuff, firstly, the pony was 'naughty' when the saddle was wrong. I would have this checked again. They can change shape dramatically over the year.

Is he warm enough? I've had horses who are devils when cold!

Lastly, some horses are simply good in summer and rather frisky in winter when it is cold, windy, not as much work. If that is the case, and he is too much for the little rider, I would either move to somewhere with an indoor so the rider can still ride, or give everyone a break until the days lengthen out again. I often give mine a break simply because it isn't as much fun at this time of year. I wouldn't have done as a kid, but I grew up now LOL.
 
He is six and they can go through a teenager type stroppy phase..like everyone else I’d look at hard feed and question if he needs one. Leave rug off and let him get zapped by electric fence til he gets the idea. As for exercise I’d caution against lunging etc on non ridden days as getting him really fit may well not help your daughter whilst riding…I’d do in hand work…fun stuff..that works his brain and tires him.
 
Once the basics are checked- teeth, back, tack. I’d cut feed right back- handful of chaff if you must carry supplements and try to get pony exercised more. Can pony be lunged? Is there a competent jockey who could give the pony a bit more exercise a few days a week?

Re the fencing. Is he rugged? Some ponies learn to put up with the noise and mild discomfort if the reward is good. He sounds like he might need to be somewhere with proper fencing. Not all are suited to electric fence.
 
ImmyS said:
How long as he been on the fast fibre?

I started using FF as a carrier for supplement for my young horse. He started becoming a bit of a twit, nothing awful but spooky and just getting ‘silly’/het up when he’s normally Mr chill. I decided to stop his feed. Reintroduced his feed with just some soaked grass pellets as a carrier and his normal saintly service has resumed so can only assume it was something in the FF. Maybe worth cutting feed out?

Mine also tends to get very hangry this time of year with the reduced grass intake. In the summer they have access to a lot more varieties of grass and hedge rows. For a 16hh lump of an ID he is also a super escape artist. After seeming some threads on here about equine biome I have started feeding some oily herbs (rosemary, oregano and thyme) and I really do think this has helped with his ‘hangryness’. He seems more content with limited grass intake and isn’t so desperate for food, he hasn’t tried to escape once despite the grass definitely being greener on the other side!
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That's interesting about the herbs.
 
Cut down or completely stop the fast fibre would be the first thing. Second thing, is there someone small enough to ride him but old enough to let him know he can’t take the piss? Even if they rode him twice a week while you can’t come down it could make a difference with behaviour and with increase exercise. Just make sure it’s someone you know and trust won’t drive him mad because I have had my own experiences with that ? as well, might be worth while getting a physio or vet to have a look over, the winter weather and lack of exercise might be a contributing factor but a huge behaviour change that includes napping and bolting could be something a bit more that is worth exploring. If he’s gained any weight or lost any, it may also affect saddle fit (especially with increased winter feed + reduction in exercise). Wishing you the best of luck with him and hope your little ones confidence isn’t knocked by recent events ?
 
as others have said. I'd cut out the feed. Little ponies just don't need to extra energy especially when ridden by little ones twice a week.
Soaked hay or hay mixed with straw to reduce the calories would be enough for him IMHO.

As for breaking out, you'll need to check every part of the fence with a tester to make sure its all electrified. Is he wearing a rug? this often helps them insulate themselves from the shock. While its a bit milder throw him out unrugged so he get 'reminded' what the fence can do.

Ground manners need reinforcing. It sounds like he's learnt to take the p***. Unfortunately most welsh ponies are smart and only think with there bellies. It might be worth getting an instructor in a couple of time to spend time with your little one with pony to teach them some techniques. children often listen better to a 3rd party than mum/dad. Speaking from personal experience!
 
I also echo cutting out the fast fibre as there’s many questionable ingredients in that. Oatfeed…high energy, fenugreek - endocrine disrupting, linseed- potential allergen response.
Also the chaff - replace with simple grass nuts.

Strip diet down to basic low-mid energy hay, grass nuts if needing a carrier for minerals, salt. He’s not working loads due to season so a good time to strip diet down and see how he behaves.

Many bagged equine feeds are a nightmare-in-a-bag waiting to happen imo. Filtering through the marketing BS takes some skill these days!
 
Perhaps he needs more work? My Welsh is a pest if he isn’t worked enough. He gets very grumpy and has also been known to make his own entertainment by jumping out of his field.
 
Rosiesk said:
I’ve been meaning to add 2 more days in either lungeing or long reining but last few weeks have been chaos with flu and Xmas etc unfortunately we don’t have the facilities for when she’s home from school. But I shall start him back up to 4 days, it is like he needs a good burn!
He’s out from 7am - 4 pm, would leave him out 24/7 but unfortunately he can’t be trusted
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Lunging just makes them fitter, so you have a fit naughty pony. I would turn it out unrugged, 24/7 until at least March. Its just learning to be naughty better now.
Electric fence, there is either not enough voltage through it or its coat is insulating it from the shock. Small ponies are the worst for electric fencing, they soon work out the weak spots, there may be a break in the conductors in the tape.
I have had three A's that did did PC, hunting etc, and they worked and did everything on being out as much as possible in all weathers,forage, with company. If they are not doing hard work, like hunting, never get them fit.
 
Rosiesk said:
we’ve only had him since June and he’s only 6
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So he was young and hence not really an established child's pony when you bought him. How much had he actually done when you bought him, had he been well broken and educated and been out and about? Have you continued his education? I am suspecting that actually he was angelic not because he was trained to be be so, but because he was young and naive and it had not yet occurred to him to do anything else. Now it is occurring to him that he does not have to do what he is asked and a lack of education means that he is not obedient to the aids so he does what he wants. I see this regularly in child's ponies. Parent buys young one which seems kind and placid but that is because it doesn't know anything and hasn't learned bad habits yet. Roll on a few months and pony is learning bad habits but is still otherwise uneducated and good training is not established....., child can't cope as pony has learned it can be strong and get its own way. Can child go back to riding on the lunge until relationship and obedience between pony and rider is reestablished, and so pony doesn't become established in the bad habits it is now rapidly acquiring? Some additional schooling with an accomplished lightweight rider who won't let the pony take the p.... will help to further his education and help instill good habits but it won't cure the problem alone. Ponies are very crafty at knowing who can manage them and who can't. You will need to help you daughter learn to be firm and consistent enough both to ride and handle him without putting her in danger. He is learning he can be the boss, both ridden and on the ground (hence the nipping on the ground) she needs to turn the tables again so he does what she asks. I would agree with lunging before she rides, not to wear him out or make him too fit, but to have him in a calm, obedient frame of mind before she gets on. It may also help if you teach your daughter to lunge him also. This will help her establish control and manners on the ground as well as ridden. Why are you feeding a naughty pony anything other than enough decent forage to keep sufficient weight on. Don't!

I can't help with the breaking out of the field but assuming he is not jumping you need fencing he can't walk through (which should not be too hard) and good field companions. It doesn't surprise me that many ponies walk straight through the loopy ineffective electric fencing intended to keep them in. Get some proper fence posts properly installed with either post and rail or properly tensioned wire. Something robust so it does not just give way when pushed. Get a farming contractor to do it.
 
Leandy said:
So he was young and hence not really an established child's pony when you bought him. How much had he actually done when you bought him, had he been well broken and educated and been out and about? Have you continued his education? I am suspecting that actually he was angelic not because he was trained to be be so, but because he was young and naive and it had not yet occurred to him to do anything else. Now it is occurring to him that he does not have to do what he is asked and a lack of education means that he is not obedient to the aids so he does what he wants. I see this regularly in child's ponies. Parent buys young one which seems kind and placid but that is because it doesn't know anything and hasn't learned bad habits yet. Roll on a few months and pony is learning bad habits but is still otherwise uneducated and good training is not established....., child can't cope as pony has learned it can be strong and get its own way. Can child go back to riding on the lunge until relationship and obedience between pony and rider is reestablished, and so pony doesn't become established in the bad habits it is now rapidly acquiring? Some additional schooling with an accomplished lightweight rider who won't let the pony take the p.... will help to further his education and help instill good habits but it won't cure the problem alone. Ponies are very crafty at knowing who can manage them and who can't. You will need to help you daughter learn to be firm and consistent enough both to ride and handle him without putting her in danger. He is learning he can be the boss, both ridden and on the ground (hence the nipping on the ground) she needs to turn the tables again so he does what she asks. I would agree with lunging before she rides, not to wear him out or make him too fit, but to have him in a calm, obedient frame of mind before she gets on. It may also help if you teach your daughter to lunge him also. This will help her establish control and manners on the ground as well as ridden. Why are you feeding a naughty pony anything other than enough decent forage to keep sufficient weight on. Don't!

I can't help with the breaking out of the field but assuming he is not jumping you need fencing he can't walk through (which should not be too hard) and good field companions. It doesn't surprise me that many ponies walk straight through the loopy ineffective electric fencing intended to keep them in. Get some proper fence posts properly installed with either post and rail or properly tensioned wire. Something robust so it does not just give way when pushed. Get a farming contractor to do it.
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So the latest is his behaviour is actually pain, no different with me schooling him, put a teenager on him went in to full meltdown and threw her off .. got back on and was lame on a hind. Vet came no lameness found, scoped, back done, new saddle fitted, teeth done on Monday and also sheath clean and removed a large but not enormous bean.

Has been brilliant on and since bute trial end of may so keeping an eye incase any dramatic behaviours return.

Moved onto a livery yard in January using rope fencing and that has sorted the breaking out
 
Rosiesk said:
So the latest is his behaviour is actually pain, no different with me schooling him, put a teenager on him went in to full meltdown and threw her off .. got back on and was lame on a hind. Vet came no lameness found, scoped, back done, new saddle fitted, teeth done on Monday and also sheath clean and removed a large but not enormous bean.

Has been brilliant on and since bute trial end of may so keeping an eye incase any dramatic behaviours return.

Moved onto a livery yard in January using rope fencing and that has sorted the breaking out.
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Sorry so much to reply to but I totally agree with you’re advice, I think he did click that he could get away with all (child has got a lot firmer fortunately and the napping and nipping etc has disappeared, she is also doing everything alone with him now inc bringing him in and out of the field, they have come on leaps and bounds in that sense 😁
 
Rosiesk said:
Sorry so much to reply to but I totally agree with you’re advice, I think he did click that he could get away with all (child has got a lot firmer fortunately and the napping and nipping etc has disappeared, she is also doing everything alone with him now inc bringing him in and out of the field, they have come on leaps and bounds in that sense 😁
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If he is no.longer in pain, he won't feel the need to object to doing as he is asked.
I'm glad that things have improved since he had bute.
 
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