please help to clear up blazing row!!!

M

magpiesyard

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Hi,
Please tell me I have not gone stark raving mad and have no idea what i'm talking about?! My boyfriend and I entered a discussion about his daughter and whether she was on the correct diagonal or not, after explaining how I check myself it was clear that daughter had been taught a different method and boyfriend was telling me I was totally wrong.
My method: when horses inside leg comes forward (so watching inside shoulder) i am rising, so when at highest point of rise inside leg is hitting ground, and when inside shoulder is going back I am returning to sit in the saddle. Is this correct or have I been on the wrong diagonal for all these years??!!
Turned into a bad row so would like to find out!!
L xxx
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You should sit as the outside shoulder comes back/ rise as inside shoulder comes back so yes, you are wrong, sorry!
 
I'm afraid you've been doing it wrong all these years! The way I remember it is that you are trying to allow the inside hindleg to step as far under the horse as possible, so you need to be off the horse's back then. Because trot is a diagonal movement, when the inside hind is forward, then the outside fore (and therefore shoulder) is forward. Therefore you rise when the outside shoulder is forward.
 
I'm a bit confuzed by your description:

If you are saying: Rise when inside leg comes towards you and sit when outisde leg comes towards you- you're right
If you're saying: Rise when outside leg comes towards you and sit when inside leg comes towards you -you're wrong

Because when i read your description I got confused-
'when horses inside leg comes forward (Are you saying towards you, forward towards you or forward on horse, i.e. away from you) i am rising, so when at highest point of rise inside leg is hitting ground, and when inside shoulder is going back (back as in away from you, back to original position, or coming back as in towards you) I am returning to sit in the saddle.

You see i took that as forward as in towards you and back (as before) as in away from you.{because i have an odd mind and in which case you're right!}
However everyone else has taken it as literally back and forward. In which case you're wrong.

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Agree with the majority, you're wrong. If you are rising when inside leg goes forward that means you are rising when outside leg is comming back. You should be sitting as the outside leg comes back or inside leg goes forward.
 
The correct way to teach someone is:

look down at the horse's outside shoulder, as the shoulder comes back to you, you should lower your seat to the saddle. So you are sitting as the outside foreleg and inside hindleg come to the ground together.

Or you can look down at the inside shoulder, and rise as the inside shoulder comes back.

However I always found it easier when I was teaching to tell people they should be out of the saddle as the inside front leg is forward, because some people find it hard to tell when the shoulder is coming back. We need some pics here of someone on the correct diagonal!

Does that help?
 
Yep I think that your wrong, sorry. I always sit as the outside shoulder comes back and rise as it goes forward. I remember it by 'on the left rein, sit to the right, on the right rein, sit to the left' .......thinking about it that probably why its called the diaganol
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The americans say Rise and Fall with the leg on the wall which I think means that you rise as the outside front leg comes forward and sit as it comes back towards you. Which would mean you are incorrect.

I was taught to rise with the outside fore as then you could sit as the inside hind hit the ground and be best placed to influence it with your inside leg to create greater impulsion.

I have also been told that on the continent where they breed the super powerful warmblood dressage horses they ride on the opposite diagonal as they've got more impulsion than they can handle most of the time and are trying to rein it in! Don't know how true this is though...
 
Southwestwhippet your continental information is wrong. They dont use a different diagonal, but they do sit off the horses back more so in essence dont have diagonal as they stand up or sit to trot - although i think watching them only the dressage riders sit to trot, jumpers stand up. Or at least thats what Rob Hoekstra taught me - "never sit trot as horse cant round under himself properly for jumping - get off his back" even to halt - "get off back" not "sit deep".

try it, it works damm site better than bhs way, and you can stop strong horses better too!
 
can anyone explin why we have diagonals????

although the horse is unbalanced when you are on wrong diagonal, why? is it something to do with the inside hind comming under more?
 
I'm not quite sure how you do it based on your description but you should be sitting when the outside shoulder is back as posts above have said.

However if you can't bring yourself to admit that you were wrong to the BF then pretend that you trained on the continent somewhere eg Ukraine where the opposite of here is considered correct!
 
The general idea was that if you were sitting when the outside fore was on the ground then obviously the inside hind would be as well, & therefore you seat would come in to play which would be especially important through corners.
I believe (although I would stand to be corrected) the BHS stance these days is that it really doesn't matter which diagonal you rise on, as long as it is consistent & that you do change it when you change the rein.
Over the years I've ridden many horses who were only balanced on one diagonal - to the point of feeling lame when ridden on the 'other' one, so I do believe that alternating rising between each diagonal is an important thing to do.
 
Golly goshers I'm even confused after reading all your posts on how to describe being on the correct leg.

For example your on the right rein, going clockwise round the school trotting:-

Outside front leg or shoulder (as there both attached!) comes back, this is when you sit, so your sat in the saddle when this is back under the horse (think of the letter V, the left side of the V is the back leg and the right of the V is the front leg.. if your horse tracks up well)

Your back up out of your saddle as soon as this outside leg is thrown forward to make the next step.

or I have I just made things worse and described it in a more difficult way....oh dear maybe I have.

Never been good with words
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I always remember which leg is right by remembering that in canter, I want his inside leg to be the leading leg (ie 'on the right leg') and in trot it is the opposite, I want to be rising to his outside leg going forward.

Have I just confused it more?! I know what I mean!!
 
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Southwestwhippet your continental information is wrong

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't sure
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was just something I read somewhere I think

But the poster a couple down seems to agree with me so I think the jury is still out on this one
 
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