Please help! Wobbler :'(

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jennyredhot

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Please help! Any advice information very welcome! On Monday morning Tosca had no coordination in her hind legs she was so wobbly she would just fall around her stable if she tried to move. Vet was called immediately and he suspected a broken vertebrate in her neck which was pushing in her spinal cord. She was given injection of painkillers and anti inflams. Somedays she seems to have improved but other days she seems the same. When standing she seems perfect but when she moves quickly or turns in a circle she loses her balance. She has fallen over once but did manage to get back up which surprised me! She doesnt seem to be in a huge amount of pain as she is eating her food and is only a little bit stressed in her stable during the day. Hopefully she will improve enough to travel to get scanned and find out exactly what is wrong.. Another very knowlegable horse person is saying she thinks that it could be her brain.. :/
This is a video of her taken today.. Saturday, 5 days after it happened! Before video was taken she had totally lost her balance and nearly fallen down

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXgbd6iRHmA&list=HL1352552084&feature=mh_lolz
 
I'm no expert but I do think she looks very stiff in her back and quarters, she certainly 'holding' herself and was clearly stuggling with the turns which could fit in with what the vet is saying. I do hope you can get her to the vets for investigation, she's a nice looking horse.
 
jumbyjack said:
I'm no expert but I do think she looks very stiff in her back and quarters, she certainly 'holding' herself and was clearly stuggling with the turns which could fit in with what the vet is saying. I do hope you can get her to the vets for investigation, she's a nice looking horse.
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Yes she definately needs to get xrayed.. The vet is coming out daily and working on her lower back and pelvis and shes really sore! She is a super horse! Won a very big 1.10m comp just two weeks ago!
 
JennyRH is there no vet near you with prtable xray equipment. My wobbler could not travel and they came out and got clear (bad :( ) neck xrays.
 
cptrayes said:
JennyRH is there no vet near you with prtable xray equipment. My wobbler could not travel and they came out and got clear (bad :( ) neck xrays.
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The local vet was saying he could do some probably bad xrays but if he was us he would wait until she was less wobbly and go the clinic and get full set of proper xrays because she would possibly need to get a scan aswell! But we will see and if she doesnt improve much over the next few days we will have to get him out with his portable xray! Thanks :)
 
Sorry to be blunt but if your horse has not got full control of back end then get portable x ray done asap- even poor quality better than waiting and leaving a horse with pain as the nerve pain will be immense, a human with a partially severed spinal cord suffers unimaginable pain even on very strong nerve drugs.
Im sorry but if this was my horse i wouldn't be waiting and in all honesty would probably have pts straight away, a horse will very unlikely have a good quality of life with a broken neck with spinal cord damage. I would be upset at your vets for making her wait.
 
No it's not being blunt! All information is great! I am just listening to the vets advice.. He is the best around and is an equine vet and have always used him with great results so trust him and his judgement.. She is not in huge amounts of pain as she is in good form! Bright and perky and eating her food! (She's a messer and still manages to take of my hate and unzip my zips!) we have arranged for an equine thermographer to come early next week and he will pinpoint the problem and can tell us if its a spinal fracture or a bleed etc etc and that's when a decision can be made to get specialist transport and move her to vet clinic or whether to put her down! Thank you though! I've just tucked her in for the night and had the usual face lick good night :'(
 
jennyredhot said:
The local vet was saying he could do some probably bad xrays but if he was us he would wait until she was less wobbly and go the clinic and get full set of proper xrays because she would possibly need to get a scan aswell! But we will see and if she doesnt improve much over the next few days we will have to get him out with his portable xray! Thanks :)
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I am shocked at your vet
but if he was us he would wait until she was less wobbly and go the clinic and get full set of proper xrays because she would possibly need to get a scan aswell
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So in the meantime the horse is to stay in pain with no diagnoses no painkillers???
no advice???
I would insist a xray a mobile one, if they do not have one, I would finds another vet who has. THis is not acceptable you are the client so is the horse priority is to make comfort the horse and get a diagnoses and treatment asap no excuse.
 
dizzydancer said:
Sorry to be blunt but if your horse has not got full control of back end then get portable x ray done asap- even poor quality better than waiting and leaving a horse with pain as the nerve pain will be immense, a human with a partially severed spinal cord suffers unimaginable pain even on very strong nerve drugs.
Im sorry but if this was my horse i wouldn't be waiting and in all honesty would probably have pts straight away, a horse will very unlikely have a good quality of life with a broken neck with spinal cord damage. I would be upset at your vets for making her wait.
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:confused:PTS before you have a diagnosis!? Did you not watch the video? The mare looks quite un distressed to me, even stopping to sniff something on the ground.

Sorry, but I get really fed up with all these PTS suggestions from people who aren't there to see for themselves. Obviously, once the xrays are done, if the prognososis is poor, then PTS may be an option, or if the horse goes rapidly down hill and is obviously suffering or distressed.

OP I will keep my fingers crossed that it's just temporary damage, as can happen when there is inflamation trapping a nerve. :)
 
quote -

"So in the meantime the horse is to stay in pain with no diagnoses no painkillers???
no advice???
I would insist a xray a mobile one, if they do not have one, I would finds another vet who has. THis is not acceptable you are the client so is the horse priority is to make comfort the horse and get a diagnoses and treatment asap no excuse. "

Leviathan OP states quite clearly the horse is happy and in the video looks quite chilled. She states she has a good equine vet who she trusts - so I would not think the horse would be suffering for now.

There have been a few threads on here about similar problems with several different outcomes including PTS, rest and seeing an improvement, injections and seeing an improvement and time and seeing an improvement. Some have been thought to be due to viral infections. PTS now seems a little premature until the diagnosis is known.

OP I hope your horse has something that will improve. She looks really sweet.
 
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Poor horsey :( In your shoes I'd be asking your vet to bring the portable machine to you, if they don't have one powerful enough he can undoubtedly borrow one from another practice if necessary. I wouldn't be travelling this horse, and I really would not be walking circles with her. She doesn't look distressed, but waiting for an improvement that just might not come before investigating this properly seems unfair on both of you. I hope you get a happy outcome.
 
Hi, I was in exactly the same position as you this time last year. My horse had a bad accident in the field and ended up chipping part of his stifle and was leaking joint fluid so he had to spend 2 weeks in the vets, he got the all clear from that and was allowed home but he needed 6 weeks box rest and would not tolerate being in so we made him a 12x12 section in the field was fine for a couple of days but went down quite badly and couldn't get up his leg swelled up like a ballon and went back into the vets but they were quite worried about him and done some x-rays and found out he had wobbles we were shocked to find out as there was no previous signs before his accident. In the en we had him PTS as he would just not be the same after and vet said that he wouldn't be safe to be around by myself as if he lost his balance and fell on me, it would of been dangerous but it was such a hard decision but he could hardly move his back legs without nearly falling over!
I hope yours does not end up like his as its so horrible to see and no one should have to deal with it!
 
Taking a set of neck xrays is a difficult and specialised job. Getting someone to come and do it with a portable machine may result in poor quality xrays that are completely useless and result in a misdiagnosis. Added to that the horse will almost certainly need sedating to get a decent set of xrays and in her current in-coordinate state this might cause her to fall and exacerbate the problem.

A small neck trauma will often resolve fairly quickly with rest and non-steroidals anti-inflammatory drugs.

I would also caution against relying on thermography - this is a very inaccurate technique unless carried out in controlled conditions by a very experienced operator, especially with industrial grade cameras rather than medical grade - and there are very few of these available in the country. Interpretation of any images should be done by a qualified veterinary surgeon (it is actually illegal for anyone else to do so).

If she is young she may be a true "wobbler" - cervical vertebral instability - and the prognosis may be guarded if she fails to rapidly improve.

Blood tests for myopathies (muscle problems), liver disease, and Equine herpes Virus infection would all be useful as all these conditions can cause ataxia.
 
Leviathan said:
I am shocked at your vet

So in the meantime the horse is to stay in pain with no diagnoses no painkillers???
no advice???
I would insist a xray a mobile one, if they do not have one, I would finds another vet who has. THis is not acceptable you are the client so is the horse priority is to make comfort the horse and get a diagnoses and treatment asap no excuse.
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Leviathan

she has had pain relief - see original post. Watching the video this is a very mild case of ataxia. The advice given is quite appropriate at this time in my opinion.
 
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misst said:
quote -

"So in the meantime the horse is to stay in pain with no diagnoses no painkillers???
no advice???
I would insist a xray a mobile one, if they do not have one, I would finds another vet who has. THis is not acceptable you are the client so is the horse priority is to make comfort the horse and get a diagnoses and treatment asap no excuse. "

Leviathan OP states quite clearly the horse is happy and in the video looks quite chilled. She states she has a good equine vet who she trusts - so I would not think the horse would be suffering for now.

There have been a few threads on here about similar problems with several different outcomes including PTS, rest and seeing an improvement, injections and seeing an improvement and time and seeing an improvement. Some have been thought to be due to viral infections. PTS now seems a little premature until the diagnosis is known.

OP I hope your horse has something that will improve. She looks really sweet.
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We are making sure that she is in as little pain as possible she gets injected with strong painkillers that last for 3days and she gets these every 3 days! We have an equine thermographer coming as soon as he can. So he can take his images without her leaving her stable and without any stress for the horse! Using his images he can tell where the injury is and if it is a tumour, fracture of bleed!
I will keep you all posted about her and hope he comes early this week!
(yesterday wasn't such a good day for her, seemed to have a headache?)
Thanks everyone!
 
Bubbles said:
Poor horsey :( In your shoes I'd be asking your vet to bring the portable machine to you, if they don't have one powerful enough he can undoubtedly borrow one from another practice if necessary. I wouldn't be travelling this horse, and I really would not be walking circles with her. She doesn't look distressed, but waiting for an improvement that just might not come before investigating this properly seems unfair on both of you. I hope you get a happy outcome.
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If we were to get the vet with xray it would distress her as shes kinda spooky and with a large machine in her stable she would be sure to get very upset and more than likely fall over.. Also if she was given sedation she would more than likely fall over! Xray machine would put her in danger and myself, my mum and the vet in danger! We have been adviced to wait by both vets so thats what we will do! Sit tight and hope for improvement and then xray asap. Thanks
 
WebLeC said:
Taking a set of neck xrays is a difficult and specialised job. Getting someone to come and do it with a portable machine may result in poor quality xrays that are completely useless and result in a misdiagnosis. Added to that the horse will almost certainly need sedating to get a decent set of xrays and in her current in-coordinate state this might cause her to fall and exacerbate the problem.

A small neck trauma will often resolve fairly quickly with rest and non-steroidals anti-inflammatory drugs.

I would also caution against relying on thermography - this is a very inaccurate technique unless carried out in controlled conditions by a very experienced operator, especially with industrial grade cameras rather than medical grade - and there are very few of these available in the country. Interpretation of any images should be done by a qualified veterinary surgeon (it is actually illegal for anyone else to do so).

If she is young she may be a true "wobbler" - cervical vertebral instability - and the prognosis may be guarded if she fails to rapidly improve.

Blood tests for myopathies (muscle problems), liver disease, and Equine herpes Virus infection would all be useful as all these conditions can cause ataxia.
Click to expand...

Thank you! Finally someone gets the problem with getting a portable xray! It would more than likely be pointless and cause so much stress and fuss only to be of no use! I know the thermograph isn't the best option but it seems to make some sort of sense! Atleast it would let us know if it is just her brain or if there is something structurally wrong.. Yesterday she seemed to have a head ache? She was acting strangly.. If there isnt improvement soon she will be PTS because I feel so sorry for her and its so difficult seeing her like this. The vet has taken blood samples and im sure the results will be back soon if the arent already!
Thank you for this all makes perfect sense!
 
Please find attached the reply to the OP BR who I replied to last week who suspects their horse has wobblers: sorry its so long. Here is the original link: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=573866

Rommy was a ten year old gelding, (more common in young fast growing WB and Quarter horses/shires and TB's) and in those horse with long necks, and more common in geldings also. I had owned him for 2.5 years and he was a lovely showjumper and we'd won quite a bit of money BSJA together.

Rommy had a fall in the field which hurt his neck and the vet came as he was ataxic (wobbly on his legs) and the vet said it was wobblers to start with but then changed his mind. Then another vet took over who wanted to write a thesus about what she thought my horse had - EHV (equiine herpes virus) when in fact he did not have this. This delayed any treatment that might have been beneficial to him as she spent many weeks going down this route and ordering blood tests. The chiro came out twice as Rommy kept knocking his hind fetlocks together but on both ocassions said he did not have wobblers when it was very obvious that he did. THe vet also did xrays on a portable xray machine that she bought to the yard and said his xrays were fine but the machine was not strong enough to penetrate the muscles in the neck hence the false reading.

Finally upon my insistence he was referred to an Equine Hospital (Phillip Leverhulme at Liverpool) and he had comprehensive xrays and a neuro examination. Within two hours of arriving he was pts as they couldn't do anything for him, as he was too compromised in the neck, C3, C4 and C6.

His was late onset wobblers, probably more accurately called CVM (cervical vetebral malfunciton) due to the fall he has on his neck in the field.

The operation is to fit a metal 'basket' in the neck called a bagby basket which stabilises the vetebrae. http://www.equine-equilibrium.com/AR...ketCasePDF.pdf

Here is a fabby link which explains about wobblers by someone who is fab (Antonio Cruz) and who emailed me when I wrote to him after my horses death. http://www.meadowherbs.com/Info Ce...oblers_EPM.pdf

Even in the middle to latter stages (before we knew what was wrong with him and obviously before he was wrongly diagnosed with EHV) he was jumping double clear discoverys one day and then totally uncordinated the next. On his good days you would never know there was a problem, on his bad days his canter used to throw you up out of the saddle with huge force and he would just look 'strange'. By then he was only Grade 1, the day he was put down he was Grade 3 to 4.
My horse was stabilised prior to transport to Liverpool with finadyne. Apparently it can make a lot of difference if given early. A lot of nerve damage may have been caused by the fractured vertebra, maybe a physio or chiro in conjunction with your vet to free up the muscles around the neck would be the answer but I would have thought this wouldn't be for quite a while until the swelling has gone down and the injury isn't it the acute stage.
 
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My wobblers (before diagnosis) was jumping double clear discoverys without a problem one day, the next day couldn't walk without looking drunk. This is how it is with wobblers. Take my advice don't rely on portable xrays, get a professional horse transporter with a lorry to transport your horse to the nearest hospital with a large xray machine that is capable of taking good quality photos of the cervical area of the neck. Please don't try transporting a wobbly horse on your own, a horse thrashing around in a trailer or horsebox on a motorway is not good, better leave to the professionals in case such a thing happens. Ask your vet if its possible to stabilise wthe horse with finadyne prior to the journey and then take ithe horse in a couple of days time. I can see from the turn on the left before the horsewalker that your horse is quite cleary moving his outside leg by swinging it wide, this is a classic symptom. It might not be wobblers, but I can bet it won't be EHV either and it sounds like wobblers as he is a young fast growing horse.

At least you will get a diagnosis, which although you may dread at the moment, will put your mind at rest. If its still doubtful after xrays you can opt for the myelogram procedure but this involves a GA.
 
applecart14 said:
Please find attached the reply to the OP BR who I replied to last week who suspects their horse has wobblers: sorry its so long. Here is the original link: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=573866

Rommy was a ten year old gelding, (more common in young fast growing WB and Quarter horses/shires and TB's) and in those horse with long necks, and more common in geldings also. I had owned him for 2.5 years and he was a lovely showjumper and we'd won quite a bit of money BSJA together.

Rommy had a fall in the field which hurt his neck and the vet came as he was ataxic (wobbly on his legs) and the vet said it was wobblers to start with but then changed his mind. Then another vet took over who wanted to write a thesus about what she thought my horse had - EHV (equiine herpes virus) when in fact he did not have this. This delayed any treatment that might have been beneficial to him as she spent many weeks going down this route and ordering blood tests. The chiro came out twice as Rommy kept knocking his hind fetlocks together but on both ocassions said he did not have wobblers when it was very obvious that he did. THe vet also did xrays on a portable xray machine that she bought to the yard and said his xrays were fine but the machine was not strong enough to penetrate the muscles in the neck hence the false reading.

Finally upon my insistence he was referred to an Equine Hospital (Phillip Leverhulme at Liverpool) and he had comprehensive xrays and a neuro examination. Within two hours of arriving he was pts as they couldn't do anything for him, as he was too compromised in the neck, C3, C4 and C6.

His was late onset wobblers, probably more accurately called CVM (cervical vetebral malfunciton) due to the fall he has on his neck in the field.

The operation is to fit a metal 'basket' in the neck called a bagby basket which stabilises the vetebrae. http://www.equine-equilibrium.com/AR...ketCasePDF.pdf

Here is a fabby link which explains about wobblers by someone who is fab (Antonio Cruz) and who emailed me when I wrote to him after my horses death. http://www.meadowherbs.com/Info Ce...oblers_EPM.pdf

Even in the middle to latter stages (before we knew what was wrong with him and obviously before he was wrongly diagnosed with EHV) he was jumping double clear discoverys one day and then totally uncordinated the next. On his good days you would never know there was a problem, on his bad days his canter used to throw you up out of the saddle with huge force and he would just look 'strange'. By then he was only Grade 1, the day he was put down he was Grade 3 to 4.
My horse was stabilised prior to transport to Liverpool with finadyne. Apparently it can make a lot of difference if given early. A lot of nerve damage may have been caused by the fractured vertebra, maybe a physio or chiro in conjunction with your vet to free up the muscles around the neck would be the answer but I would have thought this wouldn't be for quite a while until the swelling has gone down and the injury isn't it the acute stage.
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Thanks for the amazing reply! Great reading in the websites! I am very sorry for your lose.. Its such a devasting thing to lose any horse! We have a vet that does Reiki message and bio energy and this is helping relax the muscles and her and seems to make an improvement in her afterwards. I think it seems its going to end uo with her being PTS I really dont want it to drag on with her being locked up in a stable for weeks and weeks for no reason :( but we will see how a week or two do her! Thank you x
 
applecart14 said:
My wobblers (before diagnosis) was jumping double clear discoverys without a problem one day, the next day couldn't walk without looking drunk. This is how it is with wobblers. Take my advice don't rely on portable xrays, get a professional horse transporter with a lorry to transport your horse to the nearest hospital with a large xray machine that is capable of taking good quality photos of the cervical area of the neck. Please don't try transporting a wobbly horse on your own, a horse thrashing around in a trailer or horsebox on a motorway is not good, better leave to the professionals in case such a thing happens. Ask your vet if its possible to stabilise wthe horse with finadyne prior to the journey and then take ithe horse in a couple of days time. I can see from the turn on the left before the horsewalker that your horse is quite cleary moving his outside leg by swinging it wide, this is a classic symptom. It might not be wobblers, but I can bet it won't be EHV either and it sounds like wobblers as he is a young fast growing horse.

At least you will get a diagnosis, which although you may dread at the moment, will put your mind at rest. If its still doubtful after xrays you can opt for the myelogram procedure but this involves a GA.
Click to expand...

Yes due to what ever injury she has received in the field/stable she has become a wobbler! The vet diagnosed her on the monday when it happened but we just dont know what brought it on! The thermographer is coming tomorrow so fingers crossed this brings us a step in the right direction to the diagnoses or the why!! Thanks :) x
 
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