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rhia589

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Iv never posted before but am so unsure what to do was really hoping for advice. As a career im a groom for a private family but on the side take on youngsters and problem horses to reschool, nothing usually phases me until today!
I bought two horses from a dealer, both unbroken, one is three and the other 5. The 5 year old, kia, was nervy but after a lot of groundwork i today introduced the roller, initially she was fine and continued to be so when i did roller up BUT, as i reached to remove roller, she took off down the yard broncing, jumped a 5ft metal gate, (at this point i was impressed with her ability!) she took off over concrete, came down and skided a good 10ft on her side. After getting up she took off, ran through post and rail fencing and eventually stopped at the far corner of a field.

Thankfully she had no serious injury and had only cuts and grazes which was amaing. I managed to catch her and lead her back to yard but she would not let me touch roller to remove so i turned her out in tiny paddock on yard hoping she would calm enough to let me remove it.

5 hours and an awful lot of sedative later which was advised by two seperate vets, i still had a horse broncing violently round a paddock. Long story short after more sedative and a lot of help i managed to get her into stable and by reaching through bars removed roller which she was remarkably calm about.

My problem now is i dont know what to do with her, on the one had im being told shes a dangerous horse and needs to be put down and on the other that she may come good in time. If i make the decision to try with her and she repeats todays scenario but this time someone is hurt ill never forgive myself but my instinct is shes not a bad mare and really deserves a chance but im not entirley sure how to go about doing that!

im sorry for length of post but would appreciate any advice, comments, thoughts very very much!
 
I woudl give her a few days off with only basic handling. Then is it possible to get her seen by a vet or a physio or similar, just to see if there's an underlying problem? And also to see if there was any damage done by her incident?

Moving forwards from that, I don't know, she doesn't sound 'evil' just worried imho. Maybe take things right back to basics for a while, and the next time you try with a roller have a friend around to help? I think she was probably so freaked by her accident that she just didn't know what to do. Just take it back, and give her more time :)
 
she has had all usual checks but may need them again after today! yard i did her on, i hoped was enclosed enough, being blocked in on three sides with metal gate on 4th, unfotunatly its most secure place iv got as school and round pen both have same height gate. im debating maybe going right back to basics, leading etc. but dont if shes a lost cause??
 
Can you try putting the roller on her in an indoor school so she can't go anywhere if she does bolt off? Alternatively send her to someone with a round pen. Years ago we had a horse who would hit the floor if all else failed and he couldn't get the saddle off through bucking, I thought he was a lost cause but sent him away to someone to do the backing for me instead and he came back riding happily. I wouldn't give up just yet! You could also try putting something light on her back to start with, maybe just resting a stirrup leather so that you can lift it on and off until she's comfortable with something being on her back. I'd say she just bolted out of panic, probably something in her head was telling her there was a tiger on her back!! So she has to learn that the fact that there's something there doesn't necessarily mean she's going to get eaten!! Hope it works out, keep us informed!
 
In a safe area practise putting the roller on and off,. without fastening it. My youngster had never been rugged until I tried to measure him the other day and pulled the ring off the wall which he was tied to even though I'd spent 30mins rubbing it over his neck, back, bum etc! (it was a light cooler not a heavy weight winter rug) Just take your time and do when there is no one else is around if that is an option, that way no one can get hurt (apart from you!)
 
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From what you are saying and without seeing the horse it's a bit difficult to advise...
You've gone so many steps forward and now suffered one setback, I wouldn't write the horse off on that basis.
Now, I don't want it to sound rude or unpleasant, but obviously, for that particular horse you haven't done enough or you haven't done the right kind of groundwork. Maybe you have rushed things a bit, or let her rush it and then scare herself? Who knows, IMO you just need to step back to what she was comfortable with and build up again.
There are very few 'unridable' or unbreakable horses - some just take more time and patience than others.
 
If you still have faith in her becoming a riding horse then you should carry on , you know her personality we dont. Just remember lots of small baby steps and as Martlin said if you hit a wall take her back to the last step she was comfortable at. Spend as much time with her as she is happy with just being around her and bonding. Maybe some of the NH or dare i say it P*****i techniques may work for you both.
 
Could the roller have tightened as she got hot working?

Could she be in season?

Do you know if she's ever had a foal?

I only ask because after my mare had had foals she became worried by girths - particularly when she's in season and really wasn't keen on being girthed.

I'd go back to basics (whether or not she's in season/had a foal) and work on handling her after she's done any work. Running a sheepskin mit all over her, particularly under her belly, brushing, general handling.

Give her a chance though - your instincts are probably right!
 
many years ago i broke my youngster, i knew her well and she was a very calm horse HOWEVER she took me completely by surprise when i put a roller on her and started lunging... she went mad leaping and bucking and when she stopped moving she stood very still and was extremely tense. as i walked her back to the stable she started broncing again so i stopped and took it off. i tried quite a few times putting it on in the stable but she was never happy, so i gave up with the roller and tried a lightweight saddle with no stirrups on and a leather girth and she was fine, no bucking etc. after this tried again with roller and almost the same reaction as before although not quite as violent. never used a roller again!!!!hope this helps a bit:D
 
QR - maybe she would be happier firstly with a rug, or a numnah and elestic surcingale. I used to throw 'sheets' of round bale haylage onto our homebreds naked back, and the others would eat off her, consequently her first rug was of no concern to her!
 
I think that rollers can be too narrow for a lot of horses, putting too much pressure on too small a surface area. I too would go with the idea of taking some steps back and then trying with an old light saddle, rather than a roller. Also try putting rugs on etc. so that she gets used to such things.
 
Do you know her history, at 5 do you think some twit tried to break her and lost the plot with her so she is terrified or has some physical issue that meant people have tried and failed before.
What about working her first, in a lunge pen with nothing on for a bit (so she becomes 'soft' and listening to you, and a little bit tired) then introduce the roller, say in stable or lunger pen/round pen, making sure you can get her out, shut her in so she can't get and leave her to it?
 
why dont you try repeativly puttin the rolller over back and taking it off agen
dnt do the girth up at first just gradually tightn and loosen til she happy to have it on the back tightened and taken off agen without freaking out. as she is 5 she will need longer than a 3yr old to learn.
 
sounds like you've made some good steps forward, then had a major one back, so i wouldnt give in on her just yet, maybe it was just one step too far for her at present. as another poster said, at 5 could she have mybe been broken prev and had a bad time??
 
rhia589 said:
Iv never posted before but am so unsure what to do was really hoping for advice. As a career im a groom for a private family but on the side take on youngsters and problem horses to reschool, nothing usually phases me until today!
I bought two horses from a dealer, both unbroken, one is three and the other 5. The 5 year old, kia, was nervy but after a lot of groundwork i today introduced the roller, initially she was fine and continued to be so when i did roller up BUT, as i reached to remove roller, she took off down the yard broncing, jumped a 5ft metal gate, (at this point i was impressed with her ability!) she took off over concrete, came down and skided a good 10ft on her side. After getting up she took off, ran through post and rail fencing and eventually stopped at the far corner of a field.

Thankfully she had no serious injury and had only cuts and grazes which was amaing. I managed to catch her and lead her back to yard but she would not let me touch roller to remove so i turned her out in tiny paddock on yard hoping she would calm enough to let me remove it.

5 hours and an awful lot of sedative later which was advised by two seperate vets, i still had a horse broncing violently round a paddock. Long story short after more sedative and a lot of help i managed to get her into stable and by reaching through bars removed roller which she was remarkably calm about.

My problem now is i dont know what to do with her, on the one had im being told shes a dangerous horse and needs to be put down and on the other that she may come good in time. If i make the decision to try with her and she repeats todays scenario but this time someone is hurt ill never forgive myself but my instinct is shes not a bad mare and really deserves a chance but im not entirley sure how to go about doing that!

im sorry for length of post but would appreciate any advice, comments, thoughts very very much!
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I would contact the previous owners on her passport and ask them if any past history. At 5 I would probably assume someone has maybe tried to break her and there is a problem so they sold them to a dealer or at market.
 
I am so shocked people are suggesting having her put down just because she didn't take to the rollor?? I mean is every horse supposed to just ''take'' to everything??

Well she doesn't like the rollor, you go back a step (or twently) go back to easy peasy things, build her confidence. Don't put the rollor on but put things similar without any pressure (i.e any homemade things you can think off)

This could be a one off... this could of brought up old memories.. It could of been something else altogether... Who knows.. All we know is

All I would say is, think outside the box - stay calm

Goodluck.x
 
When Kelly was rescued and brought onto the yard at 4 y/o "broken" "backed" and with a foal, we were also advised to have her put down as she was "dangerous" and at that time, I think we would have agreed. (I wasn't with her at this point, but her owner was and has told me all about her background) It soon came out, she wasn't backed, broken or used to being handled, wearing tack, headcollar etc - she was aggressive in the stable, bit, kicked, stayed vertical when you were on her (at the time they thought she was broken) and wouldn't leave the yard she napped like a good'un. A couple of years later on, she was being ridden perfectly fine, hacked, schooled etc. - Now she is 16 and she's such an amazing horse, I'd never swap her for the world. She hacks, schools, shows, jumps, walks out etc. She still has parts of that bolshy wild spirits that shines through at times, but its just part of her now - she absolutely adores us and I'm so glad we never listened to everyone else.
It sounds like you made a great deal of progress, before that one setback and doesn't everyone have those?
I'd say every horse who's got problems deserves a chance but it will take time and patience :) And even if you make a breakthrough the chances are she will still have problems (minor ones though!!) - Kelly can't tolerate measuring sticks or similiar being brought into her stable, still napped for a good while after and little things like that.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do, it can be done, and I'm glad she's okay!!
 
thankyou so much everyone for all your advice. i was told she was unbroken due to having foals but the dealer who was as rough as they come had obviously bought her from the sales as she still had the sale sticker on her bottom so no previous info! i have broken a fair few youngsters in my time including stallions but have never ever witnessed a reaction so extreme, she was so terrified she was running blind through solid fences. Im pretty sure she has had a horrific life and some1 or multiple people have tried to break her and shes become terrified of it. and i dont know if shes just too far gone to bring her back. am on way to yard now to see how she is, will let u know later! x
 
Don't know where in the country you are - but try looking at Phoebe Buckleys website for inspiration - Flash Gordon came to her with similar problems & is now competing BE Novice.
 
I'd also suggest using a lightweight saddle with a long girth; rollers can put a fair bit of pressure on a small area, and the buckles can often pinch against the skin, so I always use padding of some description under the buckles - an old duster did the job when breaking my mare.

I wouldn't give up on her yet, just step things down a fair bit and gradually get her used to having a girth done up fairly loosely, even standing in the stable while she is getting fed as a distraction, making sure you can remove/slacken it off the minute you need to while staying safe. Slow but sure seems to be the way forwards with her. The other way, after trying to get her used to it without actually working until she is comfortable, is to just have it on and let her get on with it to a degree, if you can find a safe indoor school and just let her mooch around (or bronc/gallop!) while wearing it until she realises it isn't going to do her any harm or go away; you would need to be absolutely certain that it wasn't anything physical making her react like this though and that the roller wans't pinching anywhere.
 
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Thought i would post an updateand see if any1 has anymore ideas. Its been 2 weeks since kia's 'incident' and thankfully her minor injuries have recovered but pschological ones have really not!

All previous advice was great and much appreciated but afraid were not even far enough along any of it. At the moment she will just about take treats out of my hand (please no comments about hand feeding!) and on a good day can put hand on headcollar but thats it. On a bad day she is untouchable.

I have tried every trick i know but not even the slightest improvement, i have tried sitting in her field by her hay with my uni books for hours on end and same in stable, and every other method u can think of that doesnt involve physical contact but i just cant seem to reach her. any attempt to touch her leaves her shaking in the back of the stable or bolting across the field.

I absoloutly adore this mare and am willing to try anything to reach her, please any help or advice very very much appreciated
 
My YO has one who came to us at the yard wild and terrified of people. What seems to have worked best is stabling, and mucking out etc with her in there every day, twice a day. She had to be in close proximity to me as there's nowhere else to go in there, but I didn't even try to touch her, just got on with my jobs and ignored her running to the other side of stable etc. Gradually she gained trust, and eventually I could hand feed her, then out of scoop where I could repeatedly 'catch' her and let go again. Once catching ok, wither scratch, grooming etc
 
I would try join up with this horse or at least take advice from a really good "join up" person as to whether it would help.

I dont practise it myself, as dont have the knowledge or facilities, and I dont think it is necessary for most horses tbh, but had one for whom I thought it was needed but unfortunately she had a fatal accident before I had the chance to get someone in to help. She was similar and had no trust in humans. There was really no reason for it either. We knew all of her history. Whether it would have worked or not we will never know.

But if you go for join up I really think you need to get the best person to help. There are a lot of "cowboys" out there. ;)
 
i do have experience of join up, infact i have done it with the mare we bought with kia and have worked with a pupil of kelly marks. However my problems with kia is that i cant lead her to get her to school or other suitable enclosure, she walks herself out to field in the morning. Even if i could she is not safe to be with in a round pen, we dont have an indoor school and the outdoor one only has a normal 5 bar gate which we already know she can jump!

I know i probably sound like iv got an answer to every post but i promise havnt, im just desperate to find the right answer for her cos as stated the alternative is really awful to consider. and i do genuinly appreciate everyones thoughts and advice!
 
i dare not shut the door when im in her stable, she tolerates me crouching down by it as long as i dont move my hands. if i do any more than that, stand up or even raise my eyes from the floor shes in the back of the stable shaking, if u dont back off she rears and bolts out. iv got to say the more im writing these posts the more im realising the scale of my problems!!!
 
Given what you've just said, you need proper help - NH or otherwise. Someone who's had experience themselves of horses with problems as similar to hers as possible, who knows every trick in the book, and has a record of rehabbing horses successfully for years. I will ask my instructor for you what she'd do (she used to rehab problem horses before kids got in the way), and she might know of someone if you say what area you're in. But go for someone older, with years of experience, and it's going to take lots of time.
 
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