Please read - re:horse dentists

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Festive_Felicitations

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This is taken from an Australian forum, I realise that standard etc are different in the UK but as a cautionary tale it is well worth reading.

"Just over a month ago, I lost my beautiful horse under tragic circumstances. I’m writing this because it all could have been prevented, in the hope that others reading this may make different choices and prevent loss or damage to their horse. Over the last several years, I have had my horse’s teeth treated by a non-vet equine dentist using power tools. The subsequent damage to his teeth became apparent in August this year, when he displayed violent head tossing. My local vet was called the day he displayed this behaviour and he quickly made the diagnosis of exposed pulp, he was easily able to push needles into several of my horses teeth. After x-rays and pictures were sent off for a referral, the diagnosis of damaged teeth leading to the pain my horse was suffering was confirmed. They thought there were 4 teeth affected, two molars and two incisors. During this period he was unrideable, and although he was eating and in great physical condition, when I look back on my feed book he was consuming twice the ration of pellets he’d ever been given..
About two weeks later I took him to Scone where he was to have the teeth removed. During the exam by the Vet dentist, it was discovered there were 3 incisors affected, obviously taking all of them out would create grazing problems, so root canal therapy was suggested to preserve his teeth. The root canal treatment had to be performed by another specialist vet- so that was to happen later. After I got him home and rode him again, there had been a massive improvement. H e was moving better across his back than he had in years. I was excited and very hopeful I was getting my beautiful horse back., however if I schooled him for more than about 40 minutes, the head tossing re-appeared and although not as violent, it was evident there was residual pain, and the vets thought it was from the incisors. As I hadn’t worked him much from the initial diagnosis in August, in the last few weeks of his life we went for lots of trail rides to put some miles on. He was happy, healthy and full of vitality. In early November I took him to an equine hospital near to us for his root canal treatment as he needed to have a general anaesthetic. The vet dentist from Scone drove down and another vet dentist from QLD flew in to perform the surgery. Although my lovely boy had an uneventful surgery, and did wake up from the general anaesthetic, he had a respiratory and cardiac arrest. He was resuscitated by the hospital staff, but could not get up. I’m grateful we had a few moments with him before having to make the decision to let our lovely boy go, but to see such a strong, healthy beautiful animal brought down so easily by something as simple as his teeth was unfathomable and devastating.
My beautiful boy was the fulfilment of a childhood dream, my first horse, my best friend and the kindest and most gentle horse with the biggest heart imaginable. We miss him every day our place is empty without him.

The practice of cutting and grinding teeth to the extent my horses were is not that unusual. Yesterday I spoke with a lady who is about to embark on getting her 1* horse 6 root canals in his incisors, the damage has been caused by an non-vet equine dentists treatment with power tools. I’ve spoken to others whose horses after treatment by an equine dentist using power tools have never recovered to eat properly again. The problem is that the damage is not necessarily evident right away, it can take years.. The case I’ve posted on line is regards a vet in QLD was suspended for this practice. There is however no regulatory body monitoring non-vet equine dentists who can take action on my behalf, as a consumer of a service I have no where to turn. Power tools in the wrong hands are clearly very dangerous, they should be in the hands of trained experts only. I’ve come to learn that they are not a necessary tool for every horse either, sometimes a rasp and file is just fine.

My beautiful horse boy is gone only as a result of the treatment he received for his teeth. While he was on the table, they discovered at least another 6 teeth which would need treatment at some time. What would his life have looked like I wonder…

If you have had an experience like mine, or know someone that has, PLEASE SPEAK UP. If I had known about the damage this practice can cause I have no doubt I would have made different choices and my lovely boy would be alive today, in the paddock enjoying his life as he should be."
 
I have used a veterinary equine dentists for years, so cannot comment, but I would not like to tar all non-vet equine dentists with the same brush however.

Having seen a dentist use a normal hand rasp on a horses teeth, blindly rasping I would choose to have a dentist use electric tools as it is much quicker and seems to be safer - If they are looking at what they are doing while rasping, surely there is less likely of their gums to be damaged in the process.

Also I am not sure what qualifications they get in Oz, but over here the equine dental one is quite hard. So I would hope they know what the pulp cavity looked like.

I am very happy with my Vet Equine Dentist but it is sad to hear someone has lost their horse.
 
Sorry I did not mean to tar all or any equine dentists with any sort of bad name.
I hoped it would serve as a warning of the dangers of using bad/inexperienced/ unqualified practicioners. And / Or give people the confidance to question who ever is doing their horses teeth if they have any doubts.

We have had horses teeth done here by 2 very competent dentists and I have no qualms about asking them out again.
 
My vet, who is senior partner at his clinic, is also a qualified EDT (on the board in fact), so best of both worlds. There are also several other vets and EDTs that visit our yard so the yearly check is often performed by a different persion (they all get checked annually and if something needs doing I call my top man) ... I like this system as it means there's not only the one expert looking into my horses' mouths.
 
ArcticFox said:
I have used a veterinary equine dentists for years, so cannot comment, but I would not like to tar all non-vet equine dentists with the same brush however.

Having seen a dentist use a normal hand rasp on a horses teeth, blindly rasping I would choose to have a dentist use electric tools as it is much quicker and seems to be safer - If they are looking at what they are doing while rasping, surely there is less likely of their gums to be damaged in the process.

Also I am not sure what qualifications they get in Oz, but over here the equine dental one is quite hard. So I would hope they know what the pulp cavity looked like.

I am very happy with my Vet Equine Dentist but it is sad to hear someone has lost their horse.
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If you can see the pulp cavity it's too late!

I don't think that your comparison between hand and power rasping quite stands up. Yes, a lot of hand rasping is done 'blind' but it is done by feel and could never generate the sort of heat, abrsive forces or damage that using power tools can. Most people rasping by hand will be stopping and checking every few minutes what they have done and what alterations to angle/rotation etc. need to be made. If you use power tools the speed of tooth reduction is many times faster and a couple of seconds too long in one area can be distastrous. They can also generate huge amounts of heat and cause thermal injuries to soft tissue. Paddy Dixon and his team at Edinburgh has done extensive studies into thermal damage to soft tissues and tooth roots and the results are quite frightening.

I am not anti power tools at all - I believe that they are very useful and make reductions of large tooth overgrowths much, much easier than if working by hand alone. However they are not necessary for every horse and even a mouth worked on mostly by power tools will require hand rasping to finish it off. There is a place for both but neither tool is any use without a skilled operator.
 
I do hope that wouldn't happen here, however, a dentist used by a lot of people on my yard religiously every 6 months uses power tools for 30 minutes a time, every time, on every horse. I wander past and always think they can't possibly need that much work.
 
Bethie said:
I do hope that wouldn't happen here, however, a dentist used by a lot of people on my yard religiously every 6 months uses power tools for 30 minutes a time, every time, on every horse. I wander past and always think they can't possibly need that much work.
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That sounds very strange. My EDT used power tools as a last resort with my pony. He tried two visits with the usual hand rasps in attempt to help her but where her teeth had not been looked after in her previous homes, her teeth were an awful mess. My EDT came out and was assisted by my vet (so that pony could be given sedatives). He worked on her for a good while and advised that her eating may be slow for a while as the teeth are now level and so something as simple as plucking grass will be different for her. She recovered well. Last time my EDT visited, he advised that her teeth were fine (considering they are very worn) and would see me again in 6 months.

My EDT also (on every visit) explains fully what needs doing and allows me to put my hand in my pony's mouth to feel for myself. I previously used a vet to rasp my ponys teeth but became increasingly frustrated when they would want to sedate her within seconds of attempting to rasp her. My EDT copes very well without her being sedated and has over the years built a trusting relationship with her. So much so that he often rasps without a gag, and my pony is much more relaxed in doing so.
 
There is a massive campaign in Australia at the moment to only allow vets to work on teeth. It is not being met well with the general equine public as they all have the same feeling - vet for the sick horse dentist for dental work.

I'd far rather have someone who is doing teeth 24/7 working on my horse than the vet who spent a few weeks of his training studying teeth. Spent the day with a very good equine vet who was examinging a young horse for bitting problems - he hadf wolf teeth and she didn't reccommend that they be removed! I was really stunned - couldn't say anything though as the owner was present. You don't go to the doctor when you have tooth ache!

For each of my horses needs I go to the relevent specialist. Educating the public to choose only the qualified person is vital to prevent damage - my equine dentist is qualified and also trains young equine dentists.

Little Donkey - working without a gag is not advisable as the very back teeth can easily be missed as the mouth is not open wide enough. I had one horse years ago that had always had its teeth done by the same local dentist - he didn't use a gag. I got the horse off the track at 4yrs old and he had a real problem eating hay and long grass - would chew and then drop a lot out. I then moved to the other end of the country and the dentist I hired used a gag and found that the end of the back lower tooth on each side had a spike on it growing up into the upper jaw. I was stunned as this was the reason I was having problems with the horse. It took almost an hour of work with power tools to remove these points but afterwards I had a horse with a happy mouth and no eating problem. If his teeth had been done with the gag on this would never have happened.
 
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Gamebird said:
If you can see the pulp cavity it's too late!

I don't think that your comparison between hand and power rasping quite stands up. Yes, a lot of hand rasping is done 'blind' but it is done by feel and could never generate the sort of heat, abrsive forces or damage that using power tools can. Most people rasping by hand will be stopping and checking every few minutes what they have done and what alterations to angle/rotation etc. need to be made. If you use power tools the speed of tooth reduction is many times faster and a couple of seconds too long in one area can be distastrous. They can also generate huge amounts of heat and cause thermal injuries to soft tissue. Paddy Dixon and his team at Edinburgh has done extensive studies into thermal damage to soft tissues and tooth roots and the results are quite frightening.

I am not anti power tools at all - I believe that they are very useful and make reductions of large tooth overgrowths much, much easier than if working by hand alone. However they are not necessary for every horse and even a mouth worked on mostly by power tools will require hand rasping to finish it off. There is a place for both but neither tool is any use without a skilled operator.
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Sorry I didn't mean that all dentists who use hand rasps do this, I was just saying that I would prefer someone who has had training and uses power tools over someone who hasn't. I agree that there is a place for both.

I can't really comment on anyone other than my own equine dentist who works with paddy dixon and are really very good. They use power tools so I think they must know what they are doing. (and you are right about the pulp cavity, I just meant that if they were filing a tooth they should be able to notice the changes in the tooth that indicate the pulp cavity is close.)
 
Power tools DO have their place, as Gamebird states. However, there does seem to be a trend for some dentists to use only power tools, which is just wrong IMHO. Education to owners is the key here, so they can discuss and understand what is being done to their horses and why :)
 
Evelyn said:
There is a massive campaign in Australia at the moment to only allow vets to work on teeth. It is not being met well with the general equine public as they all have the same feeling - vet for the sick horse dentist for dental work.

I'd far rather have someone who is doing teeth 24/7 working on my horse than the vet who spent a few weeks of his training studying teeth. Spent the day with a very good equine vet who was examinging a young horse for bitting problems - he hadf wolf teeth and she didn't reccommend that they be removed! I was really stunned - couldn't say anything though as the owner was present. You don't go to the doctor when you have tooth ache!

For each of my horses needs I go to the relevent specialist. Educating the public to choose only the qualified person is vital to prevent damage - my equine dentist is qualified and also trains young equine dentists.

Little Donkey - working without a gag is not advisable as the very back teeth can easily be missed as the mouth is not open wide enough. I had one horse years ago that had always had its teeth done by the same local dentist - he didn't use a gag. I got the horse off the track at 4yrs old and he had a real problem eating hay and long grass - would chew and then drop a lot out. I then moved to the other end of the country and the dentist I hired used a gag and found that the end of the back lower tooth on each side had a spike on it growing up into the upper jaw. I was stunned as this was the reason I was having problems with the horse. It took almost an hour of work with power tools to remove these points but afterwards I had a horse with a happy mouth and no eating problem. If his teeth had been done with the gag on this would never have happened.
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Sorry, I wasnt clear. He uses the gag to do the back teeth but those that he can do without the gag he will. He has often said to me that he will have to start with the gag and will then remove once things come easier and the large hooks etc are removed. He warns me because pony becomes very stressed when usung the gag. She is getting better though thanks to my EDT not using a sedative. She is slowly building trust in him. What I was trying to demonstate from my comment was that we have gone from a pony who wouldnt let you anywhere near her mouth without atleast 2 sedatives to a pony who will let you do work in her mouth without a gag albeit only for a short time. I dont want to damage my EDT's reputation by not being thorough with my post. He is an absolute fantastic EDT and I trust him completley.
 
Personally I don't have a problem with no vet dentists and actually prefer them. My horse was done by vet for ages and has always been considered 'funny' in his contact. I had another horse dentist recommended to be who also works with as a human dentist. She found a wolf tooth that the vet had dismissed, and removed it and now my horse is a lot better. I am also pleased with the results with my other horses. Like with humans, a doctor isn't a dentist as well. A vet can't know everything and I prefer to use a speacilst.
As for using power tools, my pointer had awful teeth when i got him and a normal rasp and a vast improvement has been made. I would think they are rarely necessary.
 
I hate going to the dentist and a real sook - even a checkup has me in a cold sweat I was more stressed than the horse when the dentist worked on Huggy with power tools - the sound and the smell of hot enamel was horrendous - horse was fine about it though!
 
MissTyc said:
My vet, who is senior partner at his clinic, is also a qualified EDT (on the board in fact), so best of both worlds. There are also several other vets and EDTs that visit our yard so the yearly check is often performed by a different persion (they all get checked annually and if something needs doing I call my top man) ... I like this system as it means there's not only the one expert looking into my horses' mouths.
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Ditto this! works well
 
I would love my horses teeth done, hes young but dont trust anyone !Im scared of dentists myself and needles so dosnt help so id freak out at the sight of my children getting teeth done never mind the horse .I would never get someone out unqualified to do so though
 
Removing wolf teeth is often not necessary - unless the horse is very reactive to palpation of that region. I usually say wait and see how things go but do offer to take them out if owner prefers. Did a dental on Thursday of a 4yo horse and have recommended that they leave them for 6mths (as right one is blind) and see how things go. Horse has never had teeth done before and despite not being overly sharp has a number of overgrowths so we will do the 2nd half of treatment in 6mtha anyway.

As for not using vet but using "special" dental technicians - the latter are niehter qualified nor legally allowed to do specialist dental work on horses (eg tooth extractions, root canal therapy and even power tools though this one is ignored) so in the case of doing advanced dental work the vet is indeed the "specialist". Most practices tend to have at least one vet who does advanced dental work.
Of course regardless of who you choose, experience and ability are most important. As for power tools, I have seen people take off far too much tooth with them. Anyone carrying out dentals should know when they have reached the secondary dentine (this is the awrning sign before getting down to the pulp). I recently went out to do a mares teeth. Owner told me they were long overdue as it was 16mths since last treatment (by an equine dential technician used by the last yard she was on). Never have I felt such a smooth mouth. Felt like it had been donw yesterday - but not particiularly overdone - am sure it would have been horrendous had I seen and felt them 16mths ago!! We also get approx 5-10 calls each year from owners and equine dental technicians about horses being over floated using power tools. One of those tis year we have had to PTS due to exposed pulp canals.

Most vets wont touch the incisors - except in exceptional cases. On the other hand, I have seen and heard of many many EDTs messing about with incisors - they just cant leave well enough alone - though of course Im not talking about ALL EDTs. I dont need to prove my owrth by doing an aesthetically pleasing dental - thats not the purpose of my job - its about keeping the horse happy and healthy whether its teeth, lameness, colic etc Im treating. Where teeth are concerned the less done the better.
 
I had always used non vet dentists for my horses, the one I always used got really hard t get hold of, expensive etc so I tried a different non vet dentist my friends had used. I had seen him work and he had a good way with the horses, wasnt power tool happy.
My old boy had started to quid his hay, fine with feed and grass but was barely eating any hay. I had my non vet dentist out 3 times over 8 months, he was stumped, he checked teeth, allthough not perfect, good enough not to be quidding, he checked his jaw movement, he couldnt give me an answer except old age. He als ocouldnt explain why the bad smell from my horses mouth. I had my vet out for to geld a youngster and why we were waiting for the anaesthetic to work, we were stood by my old boy, purely by chance I mentioned his problem and straight away the vet said he was certain the smell would be Diastema's. He came back out to check my old boy (this vet specialised in teeth unbeknown to me previously). and his mouth was in an appalling state :( , he had to remove 2 molars to try and help stabalize his mouth) The gum disease caused my the food trapped bewteen gaps in his back teeth was advanced :(I was extremely upset as he is my special old boy, I thought I had let hm down badly. Fact is the non vet dentist who incidently has worked for years and in well liked and respected should never have missed something so obvious. Amazingly my old boy can now manage hay, he still quids but eats more than he drops. If he had been diagnosed properly he would not have had to endure nearly a year of untreated gum disease, and more importantly it could have been prevented. I will never use a non vet dentist again.
 
I agree. I have only ever used one horse dentist and that was 10 years ago. I only EVER have the vet now. I hope your old boy recovers well.
 
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