Please recommend a bit for a SJ thats strong after a fence.

[Loulou2002]

Please help me?! I have a 16hh, 10 year old mare thats jumping 110's to 115's. She's forward going and buzzy but isnt strong INTO a fence. The problem I've had is she lands heavy on her forehand and scoots through distances, jumping them flat and having poles down. This horse has LOADS of scope and a really long stride for a little horse so I need to have hold when I land otherwise she'll bounce one strided doubles or put one in a two stride etc etc. I tried her in a NS Elavator bit with a waterford mouthpeice whice worked for a while but now I find it too strong for her coming into the fence and I have to relly work to get her forward and stop adding strides. I need a happy medium so something not too strong but will keep her off her forehand. Ive just got one of those cartwheel bits to try with a waterford mouth piece (she is happy in a waterford). So I'll see how that goes but any recommendations would be great.

 

[Luci07]

How quick are you at getting back into the saddle when you land? I have an awful habit of being so chuffed at getting over the fence that I let the horse go on and have to consciously concentrate on collecting my horse as we land. Before you go down the bit route, maybe just try 2 exercises to see if they help. One. Work on shortening and lengthening your canter. Canter down the longside and count the strides, then use your seat and collect to get in 1, then 2, then more strides, then reverse and lengthen and go down in less strides. Exercise 2. try jumping a small fence and then STOPPING after it in a STRAIGHT line. Allow yourself no more than 4 or 5 strides. Makes a big difference as you will automatically sit up more quickly and take back control. See how that goes first..

 

[tls]

I had a 15.2 mare that I had exactly the same problem with a long flat stride. I found a jointed pelham with 2 reins worked perfectly, it helped me hold her together so her stride was less flat.

 

[flyingfeet]

How about a waterford curb gag with 2 reins?

This isn't a gag at all, but allows you to go "woah" with the second rein, but use as normal waterford snaffle coming into the fence?

It is much milder than a mechanical action (elevator, universal, continental and american gags)

 

[Loulou2002]

How quick are you at getting back into the saddle when you land? I have an awful habit of being so chuffed at getting over the fence that I let the horse go on and have to consciously concentrate on collecting my horse as we land. Before you go down the bit route, maybe just try 2 exercises to see if they help. One. Work on shortening and lengthening your canter. Canter down the longside and count the strides, then use your seat and collect to get in 1, then 2, then more strides, then reverse and lengthen and go down in less strides. Exercise 2. try jumping a small fence and then STOPPING after it in a STRAIGHT line. Allow yourself no more than 4 or 5 strides. Makes a big difference as you will automatically sit up more quickly and take back control. See how that goes first..

Thanks for all the suggestions! I would say I'm quite quick at sitting up after a fence.......my instructor often says i sit up too quick and be careful not to unbalance her! She is quite a sharp mare so i have to stick on! I will give your exercise a try though as it may be i have to just move her forward more into the fence and lengthen the canter to stop the chipping in extra strides then be ready to sit up on landing.

 

[Loulou2002]

How about a waterford curb gag with 2 reins?

This isn't a gag at all, but allows you to go "woah" with the second rein, but use as normal waterford snaffle coming into the fence?

It is much milder than a mechanical action (elevator, universal, continental and american gags)

Thanks.....might try that. I hired the elevator before i bought it so i could do the same with this. Shes only small but really strong after a fence!

 

[Tonks]

Please help me?! I have a 16hh, 10 year old mare thats jumping 110's to 115's. She's forward going and buzzy but isnt strong INTO a fence. The problem I've had is she lands heavy on her forehand and scoots through distances, jumping them flat and having poles down. This horse has LOADS of scope and a really long stride for a little horse so I need to have hold when I land otherwise she'll bounce one strided doubles or put one in a two stride etc etc. I tried her in a NS Elavator bit with a waterford mouthpeice whice worked for a while but now I find it too strong for her coming into the fence and I have to relly work to get her forward and stop adding strides. I need a happy medium so something not too strong but will keep her off her forehand. Ive just got one of those cartwheel bits to try with a waterford mouth piece (she is happy in a waterford). So I'll see how that goes but any recommendations would be great.

Please dont think me rude, but I think this is a schooling/training/eduation issue and not a bitting one.

1. All horses 'land heavy on their forehand' - that's the biomechanics of jumping.
2. If she's jumping flat - she's gathering speed which is a manifestation of the flight repsonse. (not 'keenness' as wrongly interpreted.)
3. If she's attempting to bounce a one stride - I would interpret this (along with the other behavioural signs you've described) as her attempting to gathering speed to clear the fence.
4. Is she quite a low toned horse? A bit more floppy in her muscles than most? Lacking in balance? 'Base narrow' as it were? Horses of this type, tend to use speed to help their balance as although they loose their balance more than a cob type, their agility enables them to get it back more easily - but not at lower speeds. Rather, they find that gathering speed helps them. So, she would propably be better XC or hunting where she has momentum behind her to clear the fence.
5. In addition, I don't think her 'stop' or 'slow' repsonse is what it should be? Are you able to stop cleanly within 3 beats of the rhythm with a quick pressure/release? Are you able to perform a canter - walk transition or would she simply not respond in time? There's your clue.
6. I think she needs re-training to understand what pressure of the bit means (and perhaps you do with your timinigs of pressure and release).
7. In addition, I would suggest that she needs to improve her stablity, strength and balance. (Not her flexibility as this sounds fine).
8. Slow work at walk and trot which makes her contract her muscles to increase stability, especially her abdominal muscles.
9. Lateral work at walk/trot which again aids her proprioception to better her balance.
10. Pole work, grids, etc, etc.

Only once all this has been done, would I attempt a leverage or different bit because it does sound like she's trying for you, it's just that she can't quite get there.

 

[Loulou2002]

I can see where your coming from but i dont think its a balance issue. Shes really well balanced, Shes dutch by a GP Dressage horse. She is scatty and pole work when she was a youngster was a bit of an issue ie landing poles just caused her to get her knickers in a twist! I can agree in a way with you as pole work would really benefit her and maybe i need to do more!

 

[Tonks]

I have a ISH (part draught) that is extremely naturally 'balanced'. He had 4 legs in each corner as it were. You would expect him to be a 'high toned' horse but he isn't. This therefore, affects his proprioception and his ability to stabilize himself at slower speeds.

I might be wrong as I can't see your mare.

However, I wouldn't simply go straight to bit - I would have a think about the physiology of your horse and the 'stop' response as mentioned.

 

[Loulou2002]

this is her, hope this link works!

Jumping her in a doctor bristol here.

 

[Kokopelli]

I've always been told whilst training my youngster that when he lands don't touch his mouth let him find his balance and he'll stop eventually, if I pull it will teach him to pull after a fence.

Have you thought about whilst schooling not touching her once she lands? Perhaps without a fight she'll work out there is not point pulling. Then eventually once she is more refined you cab get her to sit up afterwards using seat.

Have you tried using poles after the fence so she has something to think about?

If you've done all the schooling then I'd suggest something to be used with two reins. I'm a big fan of chelt gag or a mylet Pelham worked wonders with my lad.

 

[Luci07]

Thanks for all the suggestions! I would say I'm quite quick at sitting up after a fence.......my instructor often says i sit up too quick and be careful not to unbalance her! She is quite a sharp mare so i have to stick on! I will give your exercise a try though as it may be i have to just move her forward more into the fence and lengthen the canter to stop the chipping in extra strides then be ready to sit up on landing.

you would be amazed (well I was) at just how hard it is to get a forward thinking horse back to you after a fence and stop in a straight line. First couple of attempts and we were still setting sail around the school! if you have a fence at say E, then that gives you enough room to stop at the end in a 40 x 20 school. Also quite funny when you try to change the canter stride and if your mare is chipping in an extra stride then she is not quite comfortable coming in. I posted about the same issue for a friends youngster so might be worth searching for that as there were some brilliant suggestions on there which my friend is now trying..

 

[Loulou2002]

I've always been told whilst training my youngster that when he lands don't touch his mouth let him find his balance and he'll stop eventually, if I pull it will teach him to pull after a fence.

Have you thought about whilst schooling not touching her once she lands? Perhaps without a fight she'll work out there is not point pulling. Then eventually once she is more refined you cab get her to sit up afterwards using seat.

Have you tried using poles after the fence so she has something to think about?

If you've done all the schooling then I'd suggest something to be used with two reins. I'm a big fan of chelt gag or a mylet Pelham worked wonders with my lad.

Yeah tried not touching her mouth, hard to explain but its like she ends up diving though distances, have also tried landing poles which she did not get at all, though we have kept up with this and she is a bit better with grids. As a youngster she was tricky to say the least and i used to fall off daily and my record is three times in one lesson! Dont get me wrong she is jumping well at the moment but sometimes we have a bit off a eeek moment! lol

 

[KatB]

Sounds very familiar!! Is put her in a bendy rubber Pelham, as its soft but has a hit of leverage if required, and means you can ride her into the bridle and it can help you a bit.

Also, lots and lots of jumping and pulling up after the fence. Bounce grids, and fence stride bounce stride fence will help too

 

[Loulou2002]

Sounds very familiar!! Is put her in a bendy rubber Pelham, as its soft but has a hit of leverage if required, and means you can ride her into the bridle and it can help you a bit.

Also, lots and lots of jumping and pulling up after the fence. Bounce grids, and fence stride bounce stride fence will help too

Thank you! another one to add to my list to try Although i hate doing bounces on her i will give that a try too.

 

[lou_lou]

I got in to a vicious circle with my boy and after the fence i would pull he would run off and we would end up getting faster and faster. I did bit him up but then he started to come behind the bridle and not taking me forward. In the end I got a new trainer who put a tiny upright on a 20m circle and made me keep coming round with out pulling on the reins just using my body to steady him after about 6 times its like he did a big sigh of relief that i wasn't pulling any more and he never rushed off again after the fence. We then went on to do a whole course and he was an angel, we have continued to work on this and tried to do the same in the ring. He is back in a snaffle and has since won a couple of classes at 1m20 level, for this horse poles on the floor and stopping after the fence really wind him up and make him stronger I think each horse is different though. Good luck she looks lovely and I hope you find a solution soon.

 

[Wheels]

I would also try schooling first. What is she like if you do a small grid with no reins so she has to think for herself?

I had one like this and we practised many different exercises. Circling away immediately after the jump; canter to halt transitions immediately after; upright fence with one canter stride to 5 trot poles, these all helped a great deal.

I fear that if you put her in a bit that is too strong she may back off too much on the approach.

 

[georgie256]

Everything you posted there sounds EXACTLY like my mare. I do a lot of exercises with her, stopping after the fence, shortening and lengthening the canter, and a lot of poles/jumps in a short space so she has to think quickly and not rush, etc...
I have her in a market harborough at the moment, and I know people difslike them for jumping but it actually helps with her, creates a better shape and it doesn't actually restrict her. Ive also tried a pelham with a port, and waterford mouth pieces

 

[showjump]

She sounds like my mare! Afew thinks I try, one is as someone suggested trying to sit up and be more organised quicker after landing. Two, putting two poles as a tunnel after the fence, it seems to make her think and wait. Three, my trainer says to not fight with her after a fence just concentrate on my next fence and keeping straight, it works surprisingly well!

Let us know how you get on, I'm going to try some of these suggestions too!

 

[Countrychic]

Sounds very familiar!! Is put her in a bendy rubber Pelham, as its soft but has a hit of leverage if required, and means you can ride her into the bridle and it can help you a bit.

Also, lots and lots of jumping and pulling up after the fence. Bounce grids, and fence stride bounce stride fence will help too

We have just put our mare in a bendy Pelham fot the exact same reason and doing lots of pulling up after the fence. Really pleased with the results

 

[Farasi]

I ride my mare who is big and strong jumping in a myler combination bit which had really helped. I do agree with all the comments about improving flatwork too.

 

[fatpony]

Recently went to see Geoff Billington who was saying that he teaches his horses to respond to weight - i.e sitting up and putting weight back when halting after a single jump - almost over-exagurating it so that when in a combination/related distance eventually will just take a change in weight and rider position to collect horses stride rather than having to use strong rein contact etc. Was very interesting

 

[Super_starz]

Sounds like my mare too! Im playing round with bits, got a universal in her at the moment but not convinced its right for her. I also agree with stride bounce stride exersises

 

[Darremi]

I have a similr problem with my 16.3 WB gelding. I had him in snaffle when he first started eventing but he was completely blocked on the left rein and I struggled to make left turns in the ring and he was on his forehand when I got him round. He also rushed through combinations because he was anxious. I just stopped doing gridwork for months and focused on longer related distances until he relaxed enough to do lines of fences.

I tried a few different gags, cheltenham/dutch/happy mouth and he hated them. As soon as he was in a rubber pelham he jumped double clears every event. I can ride him with a very soft contact now knowing I can steer and collect him. Worth a shot.

 

[PapaFrita]

I haven't read all the replies, but PF will invariable scoot off after a fence if I don't sit up properly or if I 'collapse' on landing. RI says I stop riding as I'm so relieved to be on the other side!! The bit I use on PF is a NS Elevator, although she went just as well in a tom thumb (sold it when I went to the UK)

 

[jules9203]

I have a 15.1hh TBx mare that would regularly bounce a double. Grid work became terrifying as the moment she thought she knew what she was doing she would take strides out (quite happily over 3'6 ft grids). I never did ground poles as she would try to jump the lot and rush away after.
She does advanced medium dressage so I'd like to think balance wasn't really a factor
I was lucky enough to get some lessons with Warren Lamperd who changed my position completely. He really got me with my hips tilted & shoulders back.

She hasn't taken a stride out in the last 2 years and it's all because of changing my position.

Only jump/xc her in a snaffle - had tried various bits/bitless inc. a waterford but she was very unhappy with them