Please recommend me a feed to improve topline

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Fantasy_World

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Could someone please recommend me a good feed to improve topline on a horse. Mare is almost 19 years of a age and a TB.
Some background.
She has been on D&H conditioning cubes and mollichop bloom since October. In September she was ill and needed teeth doing (vet said not too bad) and blood tests were clear. She had lost weight during a month period and also had summer sores. She collapsed 3 times during one day, hence vet was called out as an emergency but no real explanation was given and bloods obviously revealed nothing. She was wormed twice as she moved paddocks ( new paddock was not clean and had not been horse free either!). Since moved yards and she is doing a lot better. Now has energy to burn and is putting on weight steadily in all places and is back to herself.
I am bringing her back into work next month but unable to lunge. Was planning on long reining though as have some places I can go to do this. Also have a rider to hack out on gentle hacks and to build up gradually as she has not been ridden since August.
The problem is she is now lacking in topline and also has muscle wastage behind withers. However the topline was not perfect when she returned from a short loan period last May and she came with the muscle loss then as well as lice and underweight.
I brought her back from that and she was looking really well last summer but then deteriorated in health and condition last September.
She is usually a good doer, she was when raced and after I rescued her nearly 3 years ago from a state and turned around she was a good doer in my care too.
The demise in her health I believe was the last yard where I believed the paddocks were horse sick and lacking nutrition. Grass was very slow growing and had to feed extra hay to all my horses from virtually the start.
All my horses are on better grazing now and their overall health and energy has improved in all of them.
Now I could stay on the conditioning cubes of which she was getting a full round scoop soaked spread over 2 feeds with a full scoop to one and a half of the bloom.
Or I could change feeds.
I want something that may be quicker at adding topline, although I understand that work will do this. Would long reining/ hacking with side reins help as well?
It must be a feed that doesn't fizz horses up though as she is full of energy at the moment.
I have used calm and conditioner in the past, as well as sugar beet and Rowan and Barbary extra mash.
She did build up topline a couple of years ago but I don't have the facilities to do this now.
Not planning to rush her in anyway but don't want her to lose any condition when she starts working and also want that topline improved.
Have also consider sumo or sumo MB as this has been recommended in the past. Anyone have any experience of this?
Chocolate digestives and a nice cup of coffee for all those who got this far lol.
Appreciate any suggestions as I do take things on board, after all we are here to learn and help each other :)
thanks x
 
Thankyou :) I have just been reading about Bailey's is it no 4 I think the topline cubes? I can't remember if I used these a very long time ago with her, it just sounds familiar. I may give them a whirl again as although I have liked the D&H ones I just don't think the effect has been as instant as I was led to believe when it was recommended to me. I am hoping to have a fit and rideable horse by summer and so as I want to start slow and steady work soon I want to make sure that work doesn't undo any of the weight gain I have achieved.
 
Calm and Condition from Allen & Page with oodles of walking up/down inclines on hacks and transitions in the school for our young TB... Nothing exciting and a bit boring I suppose... He really wanted to trot up hills - when he was in bad shape it was less arduous than walking...lol The Calm & Condition kept him from getting too bouncy when he was working on getting into shape but without much in the way of bursts of high activity and burning off the weight I was trying to get on him...

We're lucky with our turnout too - it's the side of a mountain so they have to do deal with the incline even when just mooching around grazing... That and gentle work (lead rein pony and some lunging/lessons in the school) was all it took for a very overweight, zero top line, 19yr old pony when my daughter had her on loan for my grand daughter... She slimmed down and got into a much better shape mainly from the type of turnout I think...

I've not used Baileys but it seems to have similar recommendations and be favoured in the same way as Calm & Condition...

:)
 
Thanks for your reply Ladydragon, I have used CC in the past but was going to give something else a whirl instead this time. I am unable to school atm just hack so was planning on long walks and then trot when she is up to it, I think she will tell me when lol. Roads here a mixture between flat and banks so was planning a bit of both after a week of long reining. Just slow and steady work really as I know she can really bomb when she wants to and gallops in the field virtually every day.
But thanks again though x
 
Bailys no 4 sent my tb loopy, as in dangerous loopy and they've done the same to a lot of other horses i know that have been on them.

I feed mine Hifi lite and bailys lo cal balancer which seems to be doing the trick :)
 
Fantasy_World said:
Thanks for your reply Ladydragon, I have used CC in the past but was going to give something else a whirl instead this time. I am unable to school atm just hack so was planning on long walks and then trot when she is up to it, I think she will tell me when lol. Roads here a mixture between flat and banks so was planning a bit of both after a week of long reining. Just slow and steady work really as I know she can really bomb when she wants to and gallops in the field virtually every day.
But thanks again though x
Click to expand...

You're welcome... :) Our boy discovered his energy and turned into a play machine in the field... Hacking he just walked, walked and walked some more...lol I don't think he found it particularly exciting but the inclines really did make a difference... You could literally see the topline appearing from the back as his rump filled out and then creeping its way along his back... The dips over his shoulders have taken the longest and the saddler adjusted the way his saddle fit and used some padding (to give some soft 'grow into space') because one shoulder is still less defined than the other... He is young so it's been a bit easier I guess than for an older horse - it's been quite remarkable looking at the changes though...:)
 
FW, no feed will improve topline. It's the right exercise and work that improves topline. As long as you put the right number of calories IN, in the right format, then the correct fittening program will get her topline back. Do be aware though that at 19 it may never return to what it was in her younger days x
 
In my opinion her feed doesn't sound balanced. especially for a 19 year old. 1 scoop of topline cubes is nothing compared to what is recomended by the manufacturer so you need to supplement this either with a broadspectrum supplement or with a balancer.

My friends 17 year old TBX was poor last winter - just fed veteran mix and chaff at similar quantities to you. We swapped this to a conditioning cube (which we reduced over time) and a veteran balancer (spillers I think) and his condition improved immensely - within a week there was a notable difference!

I'd invest in a balancer and add the full ration of that to what you are feeding (perhaps reducing the conditioning cube over time if needed).

As others have said, topline will come with work though.
 
Thankyou for everyone's replies on the subject. I am going to have a good read of the labels when I next go to the feed store as still undecided.
Box of Frogs, yes I know hun that exercise will get her topline back so it is going to have to be a lot of hill walking when hacking. I am unable to lunge her as don't have the facilities. I just wanted to get a bit more meat on her back and loins before I put a rider on, although I do own pressure pads and she does use two numnahs usually, one being a sheepskin half pad.
I don't see her age as being the issue though because she was looking good last summer and was excellent before she went on loan. I think she was underfed and over worked and probably not saddled correctly either which has led to the lack of condition and muscle where she has lost it. Put it this way she didn't look like that the day she went on loan.
I have another horse who is 21 this year and he has lost no topline or muscle, in fact I would argue that he has improved in the nearly 6 years I have had him.
I believe she will get there but it will take time. When she starts to work then I will up her feed unless we have very good spring grass, as last place the grass was poor, very poor indeed.
Cbfan, the feed store actually said she would be ok on that amount when I said what I was feeding. On colder days she has had up to a scoop and a half of the cubes. Bloom has been one scoop to one and a half in each feed. She has also had linseed as well as sunflower oil. Carrots, apples, pears, parsnips, swede included as well at times.
She has also been given NAF vitamins and minerals too. I would have thought considering the vitamins and minerals as well as oil content in the boom, combined with additional oil, vits and minerals supplement and the conditioning cubes, good grass and excellent haylage that she would have been receiving enough calories and vits/mins that she needs?
My question was just relating to a feed that could be given that was better at improving topline since D&H do claim that their conditioning cubes are for muscle and topline development. She has improved on the feed but I think scoop by scoop considering the cost I don't rate it that much. I know the feed store reckoned the bloom was better for her. I don't mind giving the bloom as she enjoys it and I think it makes a feed less bland.
Besides a feed that has to be soaked are there any good mixes which can be recommended that could also be occasionally soaked or have water added to it?
I was considering the veteran vitality by Allen and Page at one point although will have to search around for it as my local feedstore only has so many choices and the rest have to be ordered in.
I was considering trying Young's at Congleton if anyone has any experience of these as I know they do the Sweet Meadow range which I have fed before and also do the mollichop range.
 
I use Baileys 1 baileys 4 with hifi and a small scoop of euro beet on my 18 year old TB who I rescued 18 months ago with a condition ratio of a one. She now looks like an 8 year old whose worked all week! Plus I lunge her twice a week using a pessoa and this has really worked, hope this helps.*
 
Ah the above 2 people talk sense! yeh topline can only be gained through work, which is why your horse is lacking in muscular areas such as the hind quarters and shoulders. Baileys topline would be pretty much the same as build up cubes, you can feed up to 4kg per day of build up and your average stubbs scoop hold approx 1.8kg of nuts. howerver if you were feeding such quantities always best to split it into as many feeds as you can, rather than just 2 which isnt always practical I know.The quality vit and mins and protein in the feeds will help produce good muscle but only through work, sorry theres no quick fix.
 
I had forgotten to update this page, thankyou for the recent replies :)
I have gone out and bought Baileys No 4 in the end and she is being fed this twice a day with bloom at the moment. I have slightly upped her haylage too but she still has some in her net in the morning so I would guess she doesn't need anymore.
I know that the majority of topline comes with work, however I wanted to get at least some on her with the use of feed before she has a rider on her back again. She has improved on her hindquarters and can see now that her shoulders, rump and other areas will improve with work which is to start again next month.
Intention is to hack out and build up that way. I just wanted a bit of topline on her back before work and tbh most conditioning feeds do claim to improve topline. I suppose I will just have to use more pads under saddle until she has built up again. She is not like a hatrack and can support a rider easily. I just wanted a bit more natural padding under her saddle to start with.
I split her feeds into 2, morning and night and cannot do anymore than this as there is only so much my legs can take per day and I don't drive.
She is full of energy atm and is very, very well in herself, being able to go flat out full gallop on turn out every morning. She is also prancing around, rearing, bucking, playing and rolling more. This is before the spring grass so it appears I have got my horse back :)
Thankyou for everyone's replies and suggestions though.
 
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I use baileys topline cubes and i find them very good. With having minis i am limited in what exercise they can do but i lunge and walk out in hand. I appreciate you cant lunge but walking out or long reining out will help with the topline.
I also tried Sumo with an old horse i used to have. its very expensive and he wouldnt eat it. It stinks!!!! So i wasted alot of money!!! Just one to bear in mind should you think of trying it.:)
 
Stinkbomb said:
I use baileys topline cubes and i find them very good. With having minis i am limited in what exercise they can do but i lunge and walk out in hand. I appreciate you cant lunge but walking out or long reining out will help with the topline.
I also tried Sumo with an old horse i used to have. its very expensive and he wouldnt eat it. It stinks!!!! So i wasted alot of money!!! Just one to bear in mind should you think of trying it.:)
Click to expand...

Thanks Stinkbomb x yes I was planning on doing some long reining for around 2 weeks and then slow gentle hacks to start with afterwards. I have seen Sumo, it is black if I remember correctly? Also recommended Sumo MB in the past by someone who shows, said it was very good. I may consider getting some of the latter later on when she does more riding if I find she starts to lose any condition at the rear. She has always been a good doer in the past and not required feeds in the summer when hacking out. I gave them as a treat but not as the norm. However since she was ill last September and returned home from loan in May in a depleted state it has made me question if she will ever get back to being the good doer that she was before then? I suppose time will tell when she is 100% in condition and body weight so we will see.
 
We used a double poly pad under saddle on our lad first... It was the saddler's advice as horse was obviously going to change in shape and saddler wanted to give him some space for that whilst still cushioning his bonier bits against pressure as much as possible...

He got it right in all fairness... Over the next few visits he moved to a half pad then a regular quilted numnah with very little saddle fiddling and no rubbing at all - and he's mega thin skinned... Now we're just girth strapping with 1 and 3 on the left side and 1 and 2 on the right with a bit of padding at the shoulder as that one is the last area to fill out and is slightly smaller than the left... Working on building that up in the school a bit more...

Sounds like your girl is getting some good bounce about her... :)
 
Lol Ladydragon believe me she is and was not doing this at the last place where she became ill. Something was seriously wrong with that place! It is so nice to see though because this is what she is like when she is happy and healthy and is the horse I sent on loan in September 2010. I am looking forward to summer now tbh.
Thanks for the tips on the padding though x I do have a polypad I could use and various sheepkin and cotton numnahs and pads. Also have a prolite (think that is the make?) pad as well, with the inserts. Bought it ages ago and one of my better buys as never know when you might need it lol. So could always use that as well. Just want her to be comfortable when first start again really as she was fine being ridden last summer but she did really lose a lot of weight. It was not all apparant on photos but when you looked at different angles and felt with hands you could really sense she lost weight and condition pretty much all over.
I think she will be a handful out and about lol but it has to be done as no other way of starting her back off again really and I don't think you should rush a horse back into work after something like that even if she is bouncing at the moment lol.
 
I think i paid around £50 for a bag of Sumo if i remember :mad: maybe worth contacting the company who makes it and asking whether they will send you a sample to try first? It was black but very greasy and like i said STUNK!!!

Another thing to maybe consider is a supplement like ViSorbin. I had an elderly horse who started to loose weight and was generally under the weather. We couldnt find anything wrong with him and the vets suggested i tried ViSorbin, which is a general "pick me up" supplement. It worked well and gave him more of an appetite and generally did "pick him up!" Thats quite expensive but its not a long term supplement so may be worth it in the short term?
 
Thanks Stinkbomb I will look into the supplement you mentioned x As for Sumo it is made by Rowan and Barbary and I have fed the mashes before and I liked them. They have also sent me samples in the past too and their customer service is excellent! I will ask them for some Sumo and Sumo MB too, to see if they will send me some.
 
Sheesh , maybe there is a magic, wand, but in the meantime, I suggest you go for a balanced feed program ~ ad lib good quality meadow hay with a bit of haylage, plus a balanced mineral mix with a bit of ready mash to make sure she can digest her feeds.
I like Micronised linseed meal and Equimins minerals, try it for two months, there is a money back guarantee!
Teeth done every 6 months, wormed / worm count and make sure she gets fresh air and exercise.
Groom twice a day, and pander to her every whim!
 
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