PLEASE TAKE A LOOK AT THESE HORSES

[Tinypony]

Yes, they are looking to the charities for advice, mainly the ILPH. Nobody involved with Dept 41 is trying to stop the meat trade. People have commented several times that horses are meat animals in some countries, that is acknowledges. And the issue of "fuelling the meat trade" - I tried to answer it a couple of posts ago. It's all been said earlier in the thread.

 

[WelshRareBit]

I have got to agree with Claire - its a worry that doing the right thing ulimately fuels the wrong thing - if you get me. And anway farming horses for meat isnt wrong, so I kind of take that back.
Buying the horses/ponies is kind of not tackling the real issue though (or am I wrong?) surely what we all need to be doing is sorting out the disgusting way in which the poor animals are transported.
Perhaps this post should be about that?

 

[burtie]

What an excellent way for the horse transporter to fill up empty spaces on the lorry.

 

[Fairynuff]

I agree with you Burtie and did you know that the intermediate in the sale of any equine gets a percentage of the sale price (on the continant) ? Food for thought!

Mairi.

 

[claire1976]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, they are looking to the charities for advice, mainly the ILPH. Nobody involved with Dept 41 is trying to stop the meat trade. People have commented several times that horses are meat animals in some countries, that is acknowledges. And the issue of "fuelling the meat trade" - I tried to answer it a couple of posts ago. It's all been said earlier in the thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I'm really sorry for adding my comments - I'll keep my mouth shut, actually no - its a forum. I can add my 2 pennies if I feel like it. No-one asked you to analyse my statements.

 

[Fairynuff]

I would like to know if DEFRA knows about this importation of meat horses and what export/import and health documents are needed? Its a relevant question and I would appreciate a serious reply!
Is 'Wofford' the only transporter who is doing this run?
Mairi.

 

[wilder]

right as explained before these horses are not all bred for meat
to answer your question mairi woffords are not the only ones doing the transporting
defra knows and all the relevent documents are with these horses they have to be microchipped papered and pass a vetting before leaving
you know mine weighs in at 925 kg and you know how much i paid so it puts paid to the fact they are milking us for money
jupiter is ride and drive note ride and drive not bred for meat
we are not a bunch of hippies trying to save the world we are ot just saving these horses but wholly supporting hook not hoof campaign
why is that so many people are suspicious anybody is welcome to come and see jupiter look into his eyes and tell me his life wasn,t worth a couple of hundred pounds

 

[Fairynuff]

Okay, they have to be microchipped but what documents are needed? They will surely need Coggins papers which means blood testing and extra vets fees etc. I am interested as I have travelled horses all over Europe and would like to think that everything is done legally and with the health of resident British livestock coming first and foremost.
I am not branding you as a 'hippy' at all.
I did a quick calculation on the blanket dun and the equation just doest work out-I didnt do a calc on your boy

.
I still think you are doing more harm with this tactic-why is buying some horse going to change the transport conditions? None of you have been very clear on this point.

Mairi.

 

[SirenaXVI]

[ QUOTE ]
to be honest i opened due to the fact i beleived it to be another dealer joining up to try break t & c to sell horses.

But those who are going to be sensitive about it can not expect a thread of this nature to cause an uproar against the meat trade.

A big majority of the horses that go for slaughter are inbred along many other things so would have no place in the equine industry.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you have entirely missed the point of this thread, the point is NOT that the horses are going to be slaughtered for meat - I agree that will never change, the point IS that the horrendous journeys suffered by these poor unfortunate animals, by animals I mean cows, horses, sheep etc, are unnecessary if they were slaughtered nearer to their point of origin.

Whilst I tend to agree that rescuing the animals at Dept 41 is possibly not helping the situation, I can totally understand why people would do it and would probably do it myself if I did not have quite so many of my own.

 

[Llwyncwn]

QR - Dubbs, Mollymurphy ... would be interested in your comments.

 

[wilder]

mairi why do assume this isn,t done legally they are vetted over there and then vetted again once over here jupiter has been swabbed for strangles etc how many british horses are not that many he was deemed fit and healthy i have my own horses here do you think i would risk their health i have already said they have the relevenat documents (about three times now)
would like to calculate jupiters weight or will that put pay to your theory
doesn,t anybody get it these few horses saved are there in the flesh not just some statistics or photos on the net we are comitted to helping anyway we can in stopping this
just because it will take time does that mean we say it will never happen so don,t do anything about it
and to be quite honest doing nothing is the worst crime of all for all the animals destined to die this way
things will never change if you do nothing

 

[Neddies]

Just wanted to say well done done to those of you who have rescued these horses.

By highlighting what goes on in the meat trade hopefully something can be done to put a stop to the horrendous travelling conditions for all meat animals.

In the UK people are abit squeamish about the fact horses are eaten abroad, but it's never going to stop. By highlighting the plight of horses in particular I hope that it will make people sit up and take notice and realise that all meat animals sometimes have to endure these terrible transport conditions before being slaughtered.

It's a free world, if these people want to rescue these horses that's up to them, it's their money, it's up to them what they spend it on.

 

[JM07]

If you feel the need to "save" the "poor ponies", just pop down to Southall pony market...hundreds go through there every year....most of them, like the ones on that website, are genuine "knacker-mans" money.....

i assume the whole wbsite has been thoroughly read...meaning they are at "fattening farms"..well fed and watered.

the only thing i find distasteful is the awful journey they endure before slaughter.

 

[Skhosu]

I tend to feel that these horses are going to a horrible journey, but for a good few perhaps an end to suffering?
Also by 'rescuing' the horses the farmer can get more as he knows he has a 'market' for them as rescue horses.
Yes, it is nice to rescue that particular but I do fail to see why the french horses get a priority over the uk horses?
I hope all the rescued horses are happy etc but I think it may be a worse thing in a way to be doing it.

 

[burtie]

QR. So I'm horribly cynical but I fail to see how this is any different from the 'well known dealer' who imported these horses and then sold them on. Only in this case by labelling them as rescues you get the buyers to pay for transport and paperwork and there is no come back when the horse is well basically only siutable for meat. Quite clever really. Would you honestly buy a horse unseen from another country in any other circumstances?

If you really want to help these horses, buy them then send then straight to slaughter in France IMO.

 

[Dusty]

Does it really matter if they are French horses or British horses?
At the end of the day they are just horses that some people bought to save them from the awful journey they faced ahead of them.
Yes they could have bought from the UK markets but then again they would have come under flack from those who believe that to buy horses/ponies going for meat, they were only fuelling the meat trade and another would take its place.
And its true, another will take the place of these rescued horses, but another will also take the place of the ones already gone to Italy, so if a few lives are saved along the way, and the folks taking these horses are happy, then is it reall a big deal.
I dont think any of the people who have bought the "French" horses are trying to stop the meat trade, nor do they think for one single moment that what they have done will help to stop it, BUT by rescuing these horses and raising awareness then they just might make a small step towrds putting a stop to the atrocities these animals suffer before being slaughtered in the most inhumane way imaginable.
Yes they might be well fed and watered AT the "fattening farms", I dont think anyone has disputed that, BUT they are not well fed and watered on the journey to the fattening farms, nor on the journey from the farms to the slaughter house, this is the point people are raising.
You only have to look at the pictures and the video footage to see this.
Just as we all choose which charity we will donate to, these people have chosen to take a horse from France, we cannot all support the same thing as then what would happen to the other charities, and thank God that we all choose to differ as to where we lend our support, be it monetary, rescueing, or just moral support.
I dont think it is constructive to try to pull apart the reasons for what these people have done, yes we can disagree and believe that the money would have been better spent on horses/ponies from the uk, ok so be it, those of you who believe this then go and buy from the UK .
If you dont want to buy then why not just open your eyes and see what these people hope to achieve in the long run and lend some moral support, be a voice for the thousands upon thousands of animals who are so cruelly treated and suffer needlessly on these horrendous journeys.
I find it so very sad that even although some of you disagreed with the buying of these horses, and you have every right to your opinion, you could not find it in your heart to say "ok I dont agree with people buying them, but thats what they have chosen to do, so what can I do to help".
I dont think it matters that they are just bred for meat and not for riding, at the end of the day they still should not have to suffer in the way that they do.
So is it ok to treat them so cruelly just because us as the intelligent and superior race has decided that they are not for riding but for meat?
Is it because they are not useful then that it doesnt matter if they are treated like this?

I just cant believe that so many people find this act of compassion wrong.
Yes charity begins at home, but it should move on to encompass others and other places.

 

[harrihjc]

[ QUOTE ]
why don't you start rescuing the meat ponies in this country first. There are 100's of horses in this country that are knackered and up for the slaughter, I'm sure some we could find a pregnant one for you too. Then, when this country is sorted out, you can start on other countries.

There's absolutely no point in worrying about other countries when yours is in the same mess.

I have no problem with horses going for meat, as long as the entire process (incl transportation) is humane; the same goes for any other animal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually Pixie, I have a rescued pony, and have had 3 other rescued ponies in the past, all from the UK. Is it really that wrong for me to feel some compassion for these poor animals that face a terrible journey? I said I disagree with live exports, regardless of species or country, so rather than jump down my throat perhaps you could read it first?

 

[pixie]

Actually, I said in the OP's other thread that while I'm happy for the horses to go for meat, as they were bred for, the whole process (INCLUDING TRANSPORTATION) should be humane. I haven't said that there is anything wrong with anyone being sympathetic to their plight, but by rescuing them you are just fueling the market and will in no way stopping horses from being transported live.

 

[minkymoo]

Just thought I might put my 2 pence worth in. Whilst I personally wouldn't eat horsemeat, this isn't about that, it is about transportation and the subsequent slaughter of ALL animals in the meat trade. The appalling conditions that many animals have to endure is horrific and must stop regardless of whether it is a horse or a cow.

I am a hopeless animal lover, and I am a meat eater. Personally I have chosen not to be a veggie but to choose very carefully where I buy my meat. As a result I eat less but know that it is local and that my butcher knows the farm they have come from. (This is my one-woman protest against live animal transport!)

 

[wilder]

rht really the only thing you find distasteful is the journey, not the fact these horses were beaten in a small pen one of them is literally starved
i think we are going round in circles as you view us as saving some cute ponies from the nasty slaughtermen this so isn,t the case
i would love to sit back be so righteuous but to have done nothing but i can,t
i have helped uk horses aswell but do i say no because the horse isn,t english again i can,t
and do you know what pixie you are wrong by rescuing these we have stopped these from being transported

 

[pixie]

yes, well done, you've rescued a couple of meat nags, but what about the thousands of other horses? You've just created a couple of extra slots in the meat wagon to be filled with a couple more horses. If you really want to help them, then you should be campaigning for better transport conditions.

 

[minkymoo]

Well said Pixie, really better welfare for all animals. At the end of the day people can be cruel in so many spheres of which live transport is just one.

TBH I find it a little sad that so many people seem to think this only applies to horses. It doesn't and is an issue that affects so many other animals who get transported in sh!tty conditions.

 

[ShadowFlame]

[ QUOTE ]
why don't you start rescuing the meat ponies in this country first. There are 100's of horses in this country that are knackered and up for the slaughter, I'm sure some we could find a pregnant one for you too. Then, when this country is sorted out, you can start on other countries.

There's absolutely no point in worrying about other countries when yours is in the same mess.

I have no problem with horses going for meat, as long as the entire process (incl transportation) is humane; the same goes for any other animal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, name a place where people can help. I'd be happy to rescue a horse, yet I haven't managed to find any that need rescuing in this country.

I attend local horse auctions, and even the tired, abused horses reach £1000+, you're telling me they're going for meat at that price??

 

[Dusty]

Good Grief Pixie..have you read this thread at all?
That is the main point..to campaign for better transportation conditions and treatment, it just so happens that a few were saved along the way.
Saving them has just been a bonus for some compassionate people and may help raise awareness through the publicity.
If it doesnt, no matter really, because the people who saved them will also be tirelessly and vehemenently working alongside the larger more well known charities in order to put a stop to this.
Perhaps before you insult us with your petty sarcasm, you should read things through properly and then make an intelligent contribution...not an hypocritical one.
Dont you have a cheek to ask "what about the thousands of other horses" when you so obviously begrudge a couple of "meat nags" a chance of a happy life.
The slots will be filled whether the horses are saved or go for meat.
If people stopped and really thought about this whole issue, they would realise that nothing can be done just by "sorting out our own country" first.
This must be made aware worldwide and the countries..ALL the countries that allow it to happen should be called to answer for why they allow it.

 

[Tinypony]

I didn't mean to upset anyone, so sorry Claire! The reason I'm questioning what people are saying is because, reading the comments, I can only conclude that many of you aren't reading this thread through, or even scanning it quickly, before you post.
So many people are jumping in making derogatory comments about people wasting their time rescuing meat horses, or that there are loads at Southall etc that could be rescued "at home" (Southall has been closed down incidentally - hooray!). The general concensus seems to be that the rescuers are wasting their time and should be concentrating on the live transport issue instead. Well, I say for the last time - THAT IS the ultimate aim of the exercise. The intention is not to rescue 100's of horses from being eaten, it is to use this small number of lucky ones as part of the ILPH HOOF NOT HOOK campaign. That's right HOOF NOT HOOK - acknowledging the horse meat trade, but a campaign for the welfare of the horses involved.
Surely if you had read the posts where this has been patiently explained - several times - you would have posted different comments?
Oh yes, and of course the horses were imported legally and with proper vetting. How stupid would it be to dodge legislation and then publicise it to the nation??
I get frustrated at people being negative for sure, but I get more fustrated when it happens and their comments have already been addressed, if they bothered to read.

 

[pixie]

she didn't mention campaigning for better transport conditions in the OP, she is trying to get the meat nags rescued.

 

[Dusty]

Okay maybe she didnt but then surely to have made all the comments you did, you would have read all the information about these horses and what the point to it all was?
It has been mentioned though many times on here what the ultimate goal is, and yet you still reply with sarcasm and such an uncaring, unfeeling tone.
It is perfectly acceptable to disagree with what they have done, but to condemn and critisise????
I suppose it might be too hard for some to discuss things rationally and without sarcasm and the thought that its only their opinion that matters or is logical.
How sad.

 

[Diesky]

Hello - Im afraid I am new and Im a what is you call us urm " a tree hugger"

I have one of these delightful mares that came over from France - in response I have had lots of nasty messages and abusive answerphone messages from another forum I frequent saying im fuelling the meat trade.

The thing is I really dont mind what her nationality is - As far as I was aware it was a free country and I could take on whatever horse I choose and the only person I have to justify myself too (apart from my husband and possibly bank manager) is my new mare - I had the facilities to save one life and I wasnt going to pat her on the rump (couldnt have got near her to do it) and wave her off to meat because I cant save them all. (and no it isnt to get a cheap horse as I could get a cheaper one in the UK)

Thing is the people that have taken them on do know what they are doing - local papers have publicised the horses and therefore the campaign to stop horse slaughter - feed companies have agreed to use horses on their advertising brochures with a mention that they were destinned for slaughter and the web site of the campaign by ILPH - this small act has taken steps to change the conditions we have celebrities that are now backing the campaign that weren't before because ordinary people took time out from tree hugging to send emails and make a noise.

Im a veggie but I dont think that eating horsemeat is different to cows,pigs etc - its just the transportation that is awful - if you think they only travel for 8 hours then you are very naeive. Bloody Gordon Ramsay has done more harm than he can imagine showing people around lovely happy farms giving people visions of a wonderful life they have - lets be realistic they arent all like that and I have a few pictures of the lovely Rose that came over that will show you that they arent all lovely fat horses - she was emaciated and tired.

The farm my girl came from to catch them they were teathered by back legs and most bare the marks to prove it - they aer herded into a crush like cows and 4/5 horses go into a 12x12 pen where they are terrified as to get them in there they simply wack them with sticks then men stand around the side hitting them while they run around - when a horse is squashed up the fence they use that time to put a head collar on wacking the horses in the head if they move - then the horses are herded through another crush and onto the lorry. Mine was lucky as her journey was to the UK and she was led on to the lorry after my transporters (not woffards or whoever the others were buy my own UK based) (where she had all the appropriate documentation and vet checks)

She has been here a week now and she is just about letting me touch her for the briefest of moments, she is eating and happy - can I post pics on here? she's a lovely girl I know something will replace her but that would be the same in the uk horses will always replace those rescued - it doesnt mean we should live in a world of apathy!

None of the mares I have seem that have come over were bred for meat - most of the trotters that will go for meat something like 11 thousand will do so due to the drastic changes made in the stud book that make them no longer the ideal type to breed from - they are lovely gentle horses

the others seem to have been brood mares - my mare is branded and I know she came from a spanish stud - what happened ill never know - according to whoever was saying Id been ripped off for the price - not all descriptions are correct for the horses but I figure from your calculations I paid 32 euros too much - if only id have known :

I dont regret what I have done and even if I get weeks more abuse because of it I look into the eyes of my Roly poly pony and I know that for a few hundred pounds Ive made a difference to her

 

[Tinypony]

Yes, I think it's nice that Op got enthusiastic about rescuing meat horses. Even if someone disagrees and thinks there is no point, it's nice to save a life - any life. But since that first post there has been loads of information about the wider implications of the exercise given on this thread. I can only assume people weren't interesting in reading that.

 

[Dusty]

Diesky, I wish you and your horse many happy years together.
As I do all the others who have helped rescue one of these horses, its fantastic that you had the foresight to see that this would help to make others sit up and take notice of whats going on in the transportation etc of live animals.
And even better that along the way some poor souls have been saved the experience.
It makes me very very sad to see them being referred to as "meat nags".
But I suppose that is just a reflection of the world we live in..some want to make a difference and some just dont care.