Plight of the Dartmoor pony-opinions wanted!

I haven't read much on this subject but it makes perfect sense to me that if culling is going on anyway, it should be strategic and selective rather than a random one.

Round them all up, weed out those with conformational/health issues that would affect their lives and the lives of future generations. I personally wouldn't be too concerned about whether the ones that remained are pure-bred or not as all breeds evolve over time in the wild. Quality pure-bred ponies will continue to be bred in domestic settings so the breed won't die out and surely a larger gene pool is healthier? The important thing is that those that remain are physically and genetically healthy.

I saw an item on Countryfile not so long ago where they were fitting mares (possibly on Exmoor?) with contraceptive implants, as it was much cheaper than gelding stallions, which was quite effective. Might be a thought, although if the current numbers are too high, it won't solve that problem.
 
annagain said:
I saw an item on Countryfile not so long ago where they were fitting mares (possibly on Exmoor?) with contraceptive implants, as it was much cheaper than gelding stallions, which was quite effective. Might be a thought, although if the current numbers are too high, it won't solve that problem.
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That WAS for the Hill ponies (which the presenter kept on referring to as 'Dartmoor Ponies' all the way through).
I totally disagree with this sterilising of mares - what a ridiculous expense when all that is needed to be done is the auto removal of any entire out there!

Colt foals should be weaned at the round up/gathering and gelded or euthanised.

If I was doing this now, then anything male would be removed full stop, this week & not returned at all, either they would be gelded or destroyed. However, thats too simple..............
 
if only pure bred dartmoors were on the common I doubt they would all have a market. The situation is simply there are too many small ponies and indeed horses of all sizes being bred both on and off the moor.The biggest problem with dartmoors and hill ponies is the size. Most of us adults are simply too large for them so that limits their market.

Pure bred dartmoors can be used for riding and driving and actually, suprisingly hill ponies can be used for exactly the same job.

I wonder how many of the people criticising the hill ponies have actually worked with them and owned them, ie that their views are based on experience of handing both the hill ponies and pure bred dartmoors. They may not be show ponies but given good feed/wormer etc they can be fantastic little ponies.
 
But it isn't that simple. The Welsh authorities can act against feral horses because the animals are grazing illegally, on Dartmoor these animals are somebody's property and legal, no one has the right to round them up, geld them, cull them etc without the owners' permission and that does not appear to be forthcoming.
 
paddy555 said:
if only pure bred dartmoors were on the common I doubt they would all have a market. The situation is simply there are too many small ponies and indeed horses of all sizes being bred both on and off the moor.The biggest problem with dartmoors and hill ponies is the size. Most of us adults are simply too large for them so that limits their market.

Pure bred dartmoors can be used for riding and driving and actually, suprisingly hill ponies can be used for exactly the same job.

I wonder how many of the people criticising the hill ponies have actually worked with them and owned them, ie that their views are based on experience of handing both the hill ponies and pure bred dartmoors. They may not be show ponies but given good feed/wormer etc they can be fantastic little ponies.
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Nobody is questioning the rideability of the Hill ponies just that the Dartmoor pony will soon become extinct because of the cross breeding. They are an ancient breed and need to be preserved at all costs.

Everyone has a right to graze stock on the moors as it is common land. But common sense needs to prevail. Dartmoors are awesome versatile ponies and sadly hafve been pushed out of the market by the fashion trend for miniatures.
 
I kept my first pony on the edge of Dartmoor from age 7 and still live on the edge of it today (some 30 odd years later). We were not fortunate enough to own the kind of property on the moor that would give us 'commoner' status, but the moor and it's wildlife have been part of my life, all of my life. The indiscriminate breeding that has been allowed to persist despite there not having been a real market for the animals for a long time has been largely driven by the desire of commoners to maintain traditions. Now I have no desire to belittle anyone's tradition or take their heritage away from them, but you have to ask whether human desire to see ponies on Dartmoor is worth the carnage of several hundred being shot for zoo-food each each year. I completely agree on the importance of preserving genetics and there is evidence of unbroken ponies on the moor as far back as the 10th century - however even the alleged 'true' Dartmoor is based on a breeding standard that is less than a hundred years old and derived from ponies that contained genetics from all over the place.

I would hate to see them disappear from the moor - but not as much as I hate to see an increasing amount of sub-standard scraggy stock, destined to become zoo-poo year on year. - I must add however that there are some very good ponies out on the moor amongst the chaff - both 'true' or heritage Dartmoor type as well as some robust hill ponies. There are many well-meaning, concerned parties, all doing their bit to try and find a market or other use for the ponies, but the situation we have still stems from pure human nonsense. I get particularly annoyed with the claim that ponies are good 'conservation' grazers. They certainly do graze and suppress bracken growth - but Dartmoor was a forest before it was burned/grazed to bareness by humans and evidence of tree/woodland regeneration is apparent (although very slow) all over the moor. I am not suggesting grazing animals should be removed from the moor, but this notion that Dartmoor should be preserved in the exact state it is today is absurd. Our landscapes are dynamic, they change and we must change with them. We do not need 'conservation' grazing in an area that is already grazed by plenty of sheep and cows - livestock for which there is actually a market. Many people on the moor talk of 'encroaching' vegetation and scrub as though they were dirty words rather than the totally natural process of a former forest rejuvenating itself after a few thousand years of intensive human-use. There is room for grazing economically viable livestock on the moor - and room for a few ponies to keep the traditionalists and the tourists happy - but that is the extent of it. There is also room, in some areas, to allow the natural succession of this former-forest back to the woodland it is supposed to be. The relatively barren moorland is a cultural, not an ecological, landscape and it irks me to hear of grazing ponies being labelled as 'important' for the ecology of the moor. This land would revert back to forest within 50 years if all grazing ceased. To repeat, I do not advocate removing all livestock, but the current lower levels of stocking of all grazers has corresponded with a noticeable increase in gorse and bracken and young trees - bracken is seen as a bit of a devil, but it has simply replaced trees in Dartmoor forest and lower stocking levels will allow for moor woodland to regenerate. The 'encroachment' of vegetation is simply part of a natural succession back to woodland. If people want to see ponies on the moor, then perhaps those gaining their income from tourism should fund it. There is no ecological nor economical reason for the majority of ponies being there unless there is a workable and ecologically honest use for them - 'conservation grazing' is not that use. A sad sign of the times, but a reality that shouldn't be ignored.
 
They need someone who has a really good eye for conformation and good healthy horses to go up and look at as many as they can and grade them. The ones who make the grade get to go back the ones who don't get culled (be that attempted to sell or pts). Basics of any good breeding programme.
 
Agreed, especially the point that I don't think people realise how managed our 'wild' areas are and that the natural state would actually be forest.
 
I haven't been on here for ages as I have been away but I am glad to see this conversation is on going. I am going home to Dartmoor this weekend and staying with my friend who has done her masters on this exact subject and is very involved in the commoner's council trying to work out a solution. I will get an update from her and post next week with any news.
 
No 'supposedly' indigenous animal can make any progress or even sustain a level of existence, without planned and sustainable policies in place. Have we lost sight of that?

Does anyone know why Maesfen's 'on holiday'? Such a generally well reasoned and well mannered poster too. PM me if you'd prefer.

Alec.
 
These aren't indigenous. Dartmoor ponies are, not dhp or bhp,m which are created by man to produce a more fashionable pony (usually the latest fad in colour) that may sell at the market. A few a reasonable, but they are rare and still not Darte type. As previously said, most end up as lion poo. In reality, if the owner isn't going to make any money they do their own culling, no vet/knackerman involved. You will see very few Darte types even on the moor.
 
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