Police brutality

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Erm, and no I am not a pathologist (would it make a difference if I said I was?!) but neither can anyone say that had the police not shoved the man he would not have had a heart attack. As was said, that man could have died just walking down the street or sat on a sofa at home.


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Well, a second post-mortem examination found that IanTomlinson died from an "abdominal haemorrhage" and not a heart attack. The police officer is now being questioned on suspicion of manslaughter.

Changes things a bit, eh?
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It does, the only rider being that I understand he had a long history of alcohol abuse (according to the press) so abdominal bleeding would not be unexpected, nevertheless it is right and correct that the investigation level be raised until all the circumstances are known
 
There is more video evidence now, the man was hit with a baton before the 'pushing' incident and he died from internal bleeding not a heart attack. I believe the officer is now being charged with manslaughter.
 
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I believe the officer is now being charged with manslaughter.


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No, they are considering whether a charge of manslaughter should be brought against him.......

Sorry RLF, big difference.
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I believe the officer is now being charged with manslaughter.


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No, they are considering whether a charge of manslaughter should be brought against him.......

Sorry RLF, big difference.
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my mistake and yes it is a big difference
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And I'm sure none of them were provoked in the slightest
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That newspaper seller was BLATANTLY being a fat 50 something harmless guy walking away from them with his hands in his pockets. I mean how more provoking can you get?

I think that gang of baton wielding policemen were very brave in the circumstances. I ju7st wish they were as professional in our town. There's plenty of innocent people walking down the street there who could do with being shoved to the ground by a copper.
 
Whatever his personal medical history, if he was assaulted to an extent that exaberbated one of those conditions, it's manslaughter. You or I would now be in custody on remand.

I agreed with many of these comments on this thread until 15 September 2004, when I saw first-hand the thuggish behaviour of the Metropolitan Police. Even our local police were disgusted.
 
Generally I am pro 'the police', but the Met as a force seem to be a very different kettle of fish. I was at the 2004 Parliament Square protest and the Met savagely overreacted, beating protestors over the head causing severe injuries and nearly killing one young lad; he was covered in blood and unconscious. All the protestors were trying to do was peacefully lie in the road, as had happened on previous demos.
 
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i would really love to hear from somebody who is waving the 'Police brutality' flag come up with a lawful way of policing large scale protests, preventing damage and injury whilst allowing, as far as possibe, those who wish to lawfully protest, the means to do so.

This wasn't a peaceful protest, there was an element there who covered their faces and were intent on causing damage and engaging in violent and intimidating actions (and I am not talking about the Police officers here)

So answers on a post card here, or perhaps to HMI of Constabulary, who will also be examining this knotty question.

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But the newspaper seller WASN'T a violent protester.

Do you really think that a good way to police a protest is to start pushing random people to the floor?

Don't you think that just causes trouble?
 
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And a police force is supposed to be representative of the community it represents - that means that there will be good ones, not so good ones.....

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That is the most utterly crap argument I have ever read.

The communicy they represent contains violent thugs and peadophiles there fpore we should have those in the police? D'OH!!!!
 
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And a police force is supposed to be representative of the community it represents - that means that there will be good ones, not so good ones.....

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That is the most utterly crap argument I have ever read.

The communicy they represent contains violent thugs and peadophiles there fpore we should have those in the police? D'OH!!!!

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Er no - where exactly did I say that
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I said that as a police force represents the community it serves then there are likely to be a representative sample of every aspect of that community....

As I thought, you cannot present a rational debate without resorting to personal insults, how sad
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Calling your argument crap ius the precise opposite of a personal argument.

Flouncing about people making personal insults when they arent is an extremely childish way to avoid a rational debate.
 
And YOU say that I am making generalisations about the police when I am talking about one SPECIFIC incident that you haven't even seen. Why don't you watch the footage,. It only takes about 20 seconds and most of the rest of the country have.
 
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And YOU say that I am making generalisations about the police when I am talking about one SPECIFIC incident that you haven't even seen. Why don't you watch the footage,. It only takes about 20 seconds and most of the rest of the country have.

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Nowhere did I say YOU were making generalisations on this thread - if you bother to read what I actually wrote, I said I was responding to generalisations made on this thread, actually originally by Mockingbird. I was simply responding to your comment which identified the occupation of another forum member.

And who is flouncing? I am certainly not, merely putting my point of view across as is my entitlement on this forum
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The fact I choose to do it in a calm non-agressive way is my perogative, as I suppose it is yours to react aggresively and negatively to any posts which disagree with yours.
 
ps I'm looking through the thread for gross generalizations and innacurate information and finding it hard to find any.

It seems to me that you are saying that becvause you know nothoing of what is being discussed as you your sel;f admit you have't even seen the video.
 
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ps I'm looking through the thread for gross generalizations and innacurate information and finding it hard to find any.

It seems to me that you are saying that becvause you know nothoing of what is being discussed as you your sel;f admit you have't even seen the video.

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This is getting incredibly tedious to write let alone read - I pointed out the generalisations and inaccuracies in my replies, e.g. Mockingbird's assertion that the police are there to ensure peace and order (no, law and order as I pointed out), am I am member of "the Force" (what is this, Star Wars
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The debate has obviously moved on since Mockingbird's original post, and yes as you quite rightly say (and I have clearly stated) I can add nothing to the later debate as I have not seen the video.
 
They are there to keep the peace as well. So you got that completely wrong!

Sounds like yopu were splitting hairs.

You haven't actually managed to point out a single generalisation or innacuracy except from mockingbird deviating from a normal turn of phrase.


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What is one persons splitting hairs is another persons desire for accuracy? Anyway this is, as I have said before, very boring and as I was only here to find out views on XC courses not get into a petty arguement I shall now go and do something much more interesting instead
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Which no doubt you will intepret as 'flouncing off because I was wrong and you were right' - well, so long as it makes you happy, it surely doesnt bother me
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Oh right and she said the police force and you wanted her to add the word 'Metropolitian'

lol!

Stunning generalisations and innacuracies from people with 'chips on their shoulders'
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And I'm sure none of them were provoked in the slightest
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That newspaper seller was BLATANTLY being a fat 50 something harmless guy walking away from them with his hands in his pockets. I mean how more provoking can you get?

I think that gang of baton wielding policemen were very brave in the circumstances. I ju7st wish they were as professional in our town. There's plenty of innocent people walking down the street there who could do with being shoved to the ground by a copper.

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The OP was about beating of protesters. Not one specific case.
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And I'm sure none of them were provoked in the slightest
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That newspaper seller was BLATANTLY being a fat 50 something harmless guy walking away from them with his hands in his pockets. I mean how more provoking can you get?

I think that gang of baton wielding policemen were very brave in the circumstances. I ju7st wish they were as professional in our town. There's plenty of innocent people walking down the street there who could do with being shoved to the ground by a copper.

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The OP was about beating of protesters. Not one specific case.
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Well I am sure they were all provoked in one way or another. People generally don't just hand out beatings completely at random
 
Where as I do not agree with police being heavy handed, some of the "protestors" were not there to protest they were there to try and escalate the situation.
All in all I think the police have to deal with quite a bit and I would not want to do there job at all.

The lady that got a slap and then batoned down to the ground was in the police officers face then she got a slap and instead of backing down she gets in his face again!! Now I am not saying he reacted with just cause but could you imagine having to deal with a lot of volitle people at once?

Police officers are there to ensure the law is not broken they are not above the law and they have to answer for their actions.
Remember not all police officers are heavy handed and most of them try to do a good job under very difficult circumstances sometimes.
 
yeah there's nothing worse than uppity women that answer back when one has given them the back of one's hand.

They should have some respect for a man's fist.
 
At no point did I say his reaction was justified with her gettng in his face, he made a very bad call but this does cast a shadow over the police officers that were there and did a very good job of dealing with very hostile people.
 
But I think it is right to 'cast a shadow' over the other police officers whio were present. In the case of Ian Tomlinsion, he had his back to the police officer and his hands in his pockets when he was attacked. OK, that may have been one 'rogue' officer, but none of the other police officers present came to his aid. He had fallen heavily and was obviously hurt, but it was members of the public who performed CPR and called the ambulance initially.

I said at the start of this thread that I usually have respect for the police service and I have been impressed in my personal dealings with them. However, I will not support them uncritically. This is not a police state, we have a civil police force and the hard won right to protest. People fought hard for these rights and we should be wary of compromising them - the price of freedom is eternal vigilence.
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yeah there's nothing worse than uppity women that answer back when one has given them the back of one's hand.

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He struck her because she assaulted him. She pushed the officer and has admitted this ( stating it was HER natural reaction to being pushed!). And his natural reaction was a back handed swipe. Using his baton immediately on the lady for the assault would have been most proffesional in the circumstances/atmosphere yet he held back initially and good on him. Until sadly it was obvious the woman would continue with her threatening behaviour. Do you believe he should have just layed into her with the baton from the off???
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This is not a police state, we have a civil police force and the hard won right to protest. People fought hard for these rights and we should be wary of compromising them - the price of freedom is eternal vigilence.
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I agree to a point. However our hard fought for rights and freedoms to protest in a calm none violent way are not being lost because of the police or the state. Those rights will be lost for us all by those who choose NOT to protest in a peacefull manner.
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