Police dog PTS for being pit type

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Equi

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If anyone saw about a dog called Tyson, he was a staffy x rescue from RSPCA who showed promise for being a serch dog for the police. But some bright spark decided that he didn't like the look of him and called him a pit, and subsequently the dog was destroyed.

This is getting ridiculous! I hate this BSL crap!!!!

I'm not sure if petitions are allowed on here but i signed one of gov.uk https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/58381
 
Ive signed it. I hate that pit bull types have to put to sleep because they are of that breed. There are some lovely dogs about and are really friendly. Its the owners that need to be dealt with not the dogs.
 
To be fair to the police, they could hardly enforce the law on banned breeds if they are using one themselves, although you would think someone would have thought of the consequences before they started training the dog !
 
I get that, but the mere fact someone jus decided a staffy x was a pit is ridiculous. There are VERY few real pits in the UK and the likelyhood of them being crossbred is unlikely.
 
In theory, as they are banned there are no "pit bulls" in this country, the law obviously doesn't work and everybody sees dogs that they would consider to be pitbulls, I don't know how else it can be policed other than by type now....
 
Again i get your point.. hmmm. well im anti BSL anyway, so i would like it abolished, but like you say how else are they going to police it...hmmmm
 
Alot of it is not the breed but the owner as the story proves. Right home/owner has a job. Yes there are some cases where it is just the breed of dog but this is more then likely due to inbreeding. Think some owners need putting down
 
It is simply an unworkable law that punishes dogs for the way they look. I saw a case recently where litter mates were seized. One was deemed type and the other not. Same parents, same genetics.

What really annoys me is the fact that friendly well behaved dogs loose their lives for no other reason than how they look, yet someone I know has a dog that has killed another and bitten a person. This dog would be dead if it were a staffy. They fact it's fluffy and cute means nothing has been done.

The wide range of dogs which are measured up and deemed type is laughable. Most are clearly not. It seems any dog that looks a bit staffy like is at risk really.
 
Copperpot said:
It is simply an unworkable law that punishes dogs for the way they look. I saw a case recently where litter mates were seized. One was deemed type and the other not. Same parents, same genetics.

What really annoys me is the fact that friendly well behaved dogs loose their lives for no other reason than how they look, yet someone I know has a dog that has killed another and bitten a person. This dog would be dead if it were a staffy. They fact it's fluffy and cute means nothing has been done.

The wide range of dogs which are measured up and deemed type is laughable. Most are clearly not. It seems any dog that looks a bit staffy like is at risk really.
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Fully agree
 
What I can't find out is....pit bulls are a banned breed in the UK. Therefore dogs are deemed to be "of Pitbull type". This is where the law seems to be very flaky. However, a dog can be seized as "type" and then can be returned with certain restrictions (insured, muzzled in public, has a home). The dog had a home, a job and unblemished record. What am I missing?
 
Luci07 said:
What I can't find out is....pit bulls are a banned breed in the UK. Therefore dogs are deemed to be "of Pitbull type". This is where the law seems to be very flaky. However, a dog can be seized as "type" and then can be returned with certain restrictions (insured, muzzled in public, has a home). The dog had a home, a job and unblemished record. What am I missing?
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the RSPCA will not home a dog of 'type', the fact that as the law stands they already had seems to be missed
 
How can the Police use a dog possibly under the DDA ? I know it is awful - but pit bulls, pure or cross, should no longer be lawfully alive in this country. trust me, they can flick at the speed of light. Very sad, but that is how they are bred. For fighting.
 
Shysmum said:
How can the Police use a dog possibly under the DDA ? I know it is awful - but pit bulls, pure or cross, should no longer be lawfully alive in this country. trust me, they can flick at the speed of light. Very sad, but that is how they are bred. For fighting.
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I can't agree with you in this instance and your post is factually inaccurate. Dogs seized under the DDA fit guideline measurements. This means that a lot of dogs which broadly fall into this were seized and appraised would have no pit in them whatsoever. I fully accept there are a (sadly) large number of ignorant low life scum who breed indiscriminately and for the chance to pay the next bar bill and their breeding results will often fall into type. However, the law does give owners the opportunity to keep these dogs under certain conditions. It doesn't always work, but I am still at a loss that the police put down this dog when he could have met all the conditions and easily. I also appreciate there are some dogs that are so damaged by their owners they will never be able to be rehomed but the majority can be.
 
Shysmum said:
How can the Police use a dog possibly under the DDA ? I know it is awful - but pit bulls, pure or cross, should no longer be lawfully alive in this country. trust me, they can flick at the speed of light. Very sad, but that is how they are bred. For fighting.
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OMG- please go and educate yourself on the breed before spouting such garbage. Family dog of choice in the USA? The Pit. They do not "flick at the speed of light" anymore than any other breed. Its nothing to do with their breed per se, but about what idiots hands they are born into/ trained by, if you bred any large breed and trained it to fight- then it would.

This is just a prime example of why it should be deed not breed - Tyson had proven himself not only of sound temperament, but useful to society, and lost his life as a result because a totally stupid, ill thought out law.
 
lexiedhb said:
OMG- please go and educate yourself on the breed before spouting such garbage. Family dog of choice in the USA? The Pit. They do not "flick at the speed of light" anymore than any other breed. Its nothing to do with their breed per se, but about what idiots hands they are born into/ trained by, if you bred any large breed and trained it to fight- then it would.


This is just a prime example of why it should be deed not breed - Tyson had proven himself not only of sound temperament, but useful to society, and lost his life as a result because a totally stupid, ill thought out law.
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Where is the like button for this post?
 
Shysmum said:
How can the Police use a dog possibly under the DDA ? I know it is awful - but pit bulls, pure or cross, should no longer be lawfully alive in this country. trust me, they can flick at the speed of light. Very sad, but that is how they are bred. For fighting.
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Absolute pure ignorance.
 
The reason pits are a banned breed is because they've been bred over many years to have a determination no other dog has. When one does turn, they don't stop. It's nothing to do with them being any more temperamentally aggressive than any other dog - it's purely down to the fact that IF they turn, the consequences are a hell of a lot worse.
 
What is this "turn" ???

Dogs work on cause and effect, react to the moment - don't suddenly grab hold of something and not let go for no reason- there is no "switch".

They are also no more likely to cause more damage than a dog of equal size (there is a bite force study somewhere)- but yes can be more tenacious, which depending on circumstance can make the consequences worse.

This dog in question had proven itself to be of sound temperament, and was good at his job...... its like saying all spaniels should be PTS because they have floppy ears- just a plain stupid idea.
 
I believe the study showed a GSD has a stronger bite than a pit bull. And they can't lock their jaws contrary to some people's beliefs.

If you actually look at the dogs which have been seized and deemed type you will see the broad spectrum these measurements cover.

Imagine having your pet taken away and possibly destroyed just because a tape measure says so. A pet that has never harmed anyone. If your lucky after 6 months and thousands of pounds you may get your dog back, but it will have to be muzzled for life.

Even staffy's with KC papers on both sides have been deemed type. And the people this law affects isn't usually the type of people who shouldn't own dogs. It's normal every day, responsible pet owners.
 
lexiedhb said:
What is this "turn" ???

Dogs work on cause and effect, react to the moment - don't suddenly grab hold of something and not let go for no reason- there is no "switch".

They are also no more likely to cause more damage than a dog of equal size (there is a bite force study somewhere)- but yes can be more tenacious, which depending on circumstance can make the consequences worse.

This dog in question had proven itself to be of sound temperament, and was good at his job...... its like saying all spaniels should be PTS because they have floppy ears- just a plain stupid idea.
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I'm not sure what you mean by "what is this turn?" - any dog can 'turn'. I never said they do it for no reason, did I?

As for the locking jaw business - yes it's a myth. And no, they don't have te strongest bite necessarily. It's nothing to do with that. It's down to the fact that pit types can be more tenacious by far than other breeds, making any attacks on humans far more likely to be fatal.
 
Moomin1 said:
The reason pits are a banned breed is because they've been bred over many years to have a determination no other dog has. When one does turn, they don't stop. It's nothing to do with them being any more temperamentally aggressive than any other dog - it's purely down to the fact that IF they turn, the consequences are a hell of a lot worse.
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I'm really sorry and I'll apologise now to those who can't accept the above statements, but in my view they are entirely correct. Dogs which are bred for a specific purpose, and then denied that work, can prove to be difficult. Whilst many of the quasi-undesirable traits are being bred out of certain breeds, and to enable them to better fit in with the average pet home, there are and there will always be those breeds or types with a high percentage which will revert back to 'form'.........

Consider the Greyhound and it's inherent drive, and to kill just about anything which is small and furry. Then let's consider the Sheepdog and it's oft propensity to 'head' what ever's available, or the English Pointer and it's abilities to 'point', or the Labrador which is ALWAYS carrying something in its mouth, or the now Czech bred Border Patrol dogs, or in the case of Pitbulls, those dogs which are bred to fight.

There are other breeds, I agree, which carry traits and breed characteristics, some of which are amusing, some an irritation, and some which makes them a liability. The Pit Bull is one of the latter, and to argue from the 'Deed' rather than the 'Breed' stance shows a blinkered and risk filled stance.

It never fails to amaze me that the dogs which pose the greatest risk to mankind are those which all so often (NOT always, I accept), appeal to those who look for a status object, whilst not having the faintest idea what they're doing with a dog, and the apparently much favoured description of their recent acquisition, is that he's "****ing awesome". The reply all so often should be "Yes, I'm sure he is, but have you any idea what you're doing"? Very, very few have, and it's for that reason that all dogs which have a predisposition towards a dangerous disposition should be outlawed.

I'm also with Shysmum, and wonder what on earth the Police were doing with such a dog, in the first place.

Alec.
 
ANY dog Alec, is capable of being dangerous in the wrong hands. These dogs have not been bred to fight, nowadays, like i said the family dog of choice in the states, (in the right hands) although you will always get those who do- but again not just with Pits- I mean a Rotty is capable of inflicting just the same sort of damage. Same as many pet collies, and spaniels and other "workers" live quite happily without doing the job they were once bred for.

These dogs were "composed" from bulldogs and terriers to bait big game. they were known for their disposition towards loyalty to their handlers/ people in general, allowing handlers to remove them from a fight etc and kindness towards kids. They have also been used in police forces in places like the states - how is that a dangerous dispositon?
 
Moomin1 said:
I'm not sure what you mean by "what is this turn?" - any dog can 'turn'. I never said they do it for no reason, did I?

As for the locking jaw business - yes it's a myth. And no, they don't have te strongest bite necessarily. It's nothing to do with that. It's down to the fact that pit types can be more tenacious by far than other breeds, making any attacks on humans far more likely to be fatal.
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See I still dont get the "turn". Any dog is capable of biting someone yes. Like I said pits are more tenacious, and as such could cause a worsened outcome, BUT they are also less likely to be aggressive towards people than some other breeds.... so its swings and roundabouts and should be bloody deed not this BSL breedism bullpoop!
 
lexiedhb said:
See I still dont get the "turn". Any dog is capable of biting someone yes. Like I said pits are more tenacious, and as such could cause a worsened outcome, BUT they are also less likely to be aggressive towards people than some other breeds.... so its swings and roundabouts and should be bloody deed not this BSL breedism bullpoop!
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They aren't less likely to be aggressive towards people whatsoever. They have the same chance of being aggressive as any other breed.
 
Oh right so you believe breeding plays a part when it is a non desirable trait? like fighting but not when it is a desirable one like fondness/ loyalty/ tolerance towards people? Surely you cant have it both ways.......
 
lexiedhb said:
Oh right so you believe breeding plays a part when it is a non desirable trait? like fighting but not when it is a desirable one like fondness/ loyalty/ tolerance towards people? Surely you cant have it both ways.......
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I thought you said that it's the deed, not the breed? Therefore, any dog has the potential to be aggressive, just as much as the next, depending on their environment and training.

You can't have it both ways.

You continuously appear to be misunderstanding my posts. I did not ANYWHERE say that pit types are more aggressive than any other breed. I said that the way they have been bred over years has made them much more tenacious than other breeds, hence the higher risk factor of a fatality IF they attack.
 
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It is deed not breed I dont give a flying pig what breed your dog is- if it attacks mine, or me I will report it, however if that dog is minding its own ambling along why would anyone report it for just the way it looks? Which is what the law allows, and what happened to Tyson.
- does not mean breeds do not have traits- just that not all individual dogs will show one or another- like collies- a friend of mine got a dog from good farm working stock- he was due to be held under in the water trough because he was absolutely petrified of sheep- useless to the farmer. So not every dog of a certain breed will show its supposed "traits".

ummm if you read mine I agreed they can be more tenacious than other breeds. Personally i do not believe they have more "determination" than any other, ever tried to get a determined terrier out of a hole???. It is also NOT the reason they are banned..... that is down to a few high profile attacks, and the government needed to look like they were doing something- hence useless banning (making more scum want them) and BSL law
 
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