Police dog PTS for being pit type

Shysmum.. I've become paranoid about this. I've got a rescue german shorthaired pointer with fear aggression and I ask people not to stroke him but they still want to! He bit my son two weeks ago..again fear based but the bite hurts just as much whatever the source. I've got him a muzzle for when anyone new comes into the house and I just don't let him loose in the house around them ..just in case.. And I never let him get within reach of anyone when we are out just in case!
Was the dog who was pts the one in the rescue program on TV ? Such a shame ..he just looked like a normal staffie to me :(
 
please be very careful with that dog. My first cruelty case was a GSD cross - he lived with me for the rest of his life. But he was very protective of me, and I really had to stamp down hard and set boundaries. He never ever bit. I tell you what, I would never have a dog that has bitten in my house. I hope you are insured.
 
He's being watched very carefully and yes he's insured. He's going nowhere though .. I took him in and here he'll stay. His behaviour was caused by mistreatment and cruelty of humans. I think he's due some kindness in his life.
 
Crabby said:
He's being watched very carefully and yes he's insured. He's going nowhere though .. I took him in and here he'll stay. His behaviour was caused by mistreatment and cruelty of humans. I think he's due some kindness in his life.
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Do you actually know he's been mistreated? Or is this a guess based on what you see? I only ask as often mistreatment is not the reason dogs are fear-aggressive.

I own a fearful young dog. I've owned her since she was 6 weeks old. Nothing has ever happened to her and as a puppy she was a very stable dog. She became like this after a terrible thunderstorm when our house was hit by lightning. Absolutely nothing to do with people. She became paranoid about anything above her for about a year. She used to be very friendly with people but then she became incredibly shy around them. I have spent a lot of time teaching her and she's made huge progress. She has just turned 2 years old now and is very friendly with people she knows now. With strangers she keeps her distance but because she's a giant breed, and a very beautiful one at that, many people try to have her come to them so they can pat her. I simply tell them to ignore her and she will come in her own time, and she always does. My 5 other big dogs are super-friendly to people so she does take cues from them. She will sniff around the people, I still tell them not to pat her until she actually touches them and then they pat in a very aloof kind of way. She's totally accepting of this and almost always the next time that person comes around again, she will come over wagging her tail and allow them to pat her straight away. Small steps taken over a very long period of time has sorted the dog. I would never have tried to 'fix' this problem by hiding her away or keeping her away from people, but this type of dog has to be managed very carefully.
 
I could make all sort of 'guesses' about Sam's history but I only say what I 'know' about him. Rescued from a pound in Cyprus weighing 12kg with his ribs kicked in and would cover his eyes and cower when anyone tried to touch him in the shelter. So yes, badly abused by humans and not a guess. And the guessing part was that he was kept caged and alone and starved ( makes them want to hunt don't you know! To the humans he trusts..me, my husband and the kennel staff he's as soft as his breed spec says he ought to be. On a positive note he's come on in leaps and bounds since he arrived here 6 weeks ago..lots of leaping and bounding in fact now that he's getting fit :D

Yes..getting the same thing with people wanting to stroke him as he's very handsome. He's fine outside the house actually and I'm doing as you say indoors as long as the person is comfortable around dogs. Introductions are made in the neutral territory of the lounge where he's not usually allowed to be and where people are sitting down quietly so he doesn't get anxious.
 
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Crabby said:
Shysmum.. I've become paranoid about this. I've got a rescue german shorthaired pointer with fear aggression and I ask people not to stroke him but they still want to! He bit my son two weeks ago..again fear based but the bite hurts just as much whatever the source. I've got him a muzzle for when anyone new comes into the house and I just don't let him loose in the house around them ..just in case.. And I never let him get within reach of anyone when we are out just in case!
Was the dog who was pts the one in the rescue program on TV ? Such a shame ..he just looked like a normal staffie to me :(
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How old is your son?
If he's under 18 you are legally required to keep him safe to the best of your ability, the dog has bitten once...
It's sad that the dog has been abused but I wouldn't be putting the welfare of a dog above that of my child - regardless of age.
 
lastchancer said:
How old is your son?
If he's under 18 you are legally required to keep him safe to the best of your ability, the dog has bitten once...
It's sad that the dog has been abused but I wouldn't be putting the welfare of a dog above that of my child - regardless of age.
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No, he's not under 18 but that does not mean that I'd put a dog's welfare before that of my son. I don't consider biting anyone of any age acceptable however with good management and training it should be avoidable. And here we are back on the original subject ..no breed of dog comes with a guarantee that they will never ever bite .
 
Reading so many of these distressing posts, and they are certainly that, makes me wonder just why so many feel that with those dogs which really can't fit in, and with mankind, either through breed type, genetics, lack of ethical human contact, or through good old-fashioned neglect, just why we bother, and if a dog is so unable to fit in with mankind, just who are we flattering? Would that be ourselves?

OK, so the odd dog or two are turned around, I've done it myself, but there are so many, so many dogs which are taken on by their well intentioned and generally subsequent homes, and the 'Well intentioned' will live lives which they hand over to a dangerous/difficult/displaced dog. Honestly, I wonder why. Would you, any of you, give 10 years of your life to someone who showed no sense of gratitude, at all? Well? Would you? I wouldn't.

The time must surely be approaching when we consider the practicalities of our ambitions. We have to enquire of ourselves just how realistic are our chances, linked to our experience, and of success. We should also ask of ourselves whether we should inflict our ambitions upon our families. I'm not too sure that we have that right.

There are those who've put their families at risk for what I would consider to be entirely selfish motives. Had I such difficult or dangerous dogs, then they would be kennelled, and they would be no threat to those who I love. Try as I may, I fail to see that keeping a basically very unhappy dog alive, to only serve my own sense of self-worth, to be incredibly narcissistic, and shallow.

By all means, we should consider ourselves, but there are times when we should put the well being of the animal first, and all so often the animal's well being is best served by humane destruction.

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
Reading so many of these distressing posts, and they are certainly that, makes me wonder just why so many feel that with those dogs which really can't fit in, and with mankind, either through breed type, genetics, lack of ethical human contact, or through good old-fashioned neglect, just why we bother, and if a dog is so unable to fit in with mankind, just who are we flattering? Would that be ourselves?

OK, so the odd dog or two are turned around, I've done it myself, but there are so many, so many dogs which are taken on by their well intentioned and generally subsequent homes, and the 'Well intentioned' will live lives which they hand over to a dangerous/difficult/displaced dog. Honestly, I wonder why. Would you, any of you, give 10 years of your life to someone who showed no sense of gratitude, at all? Well? Would you? I wouldn't.

The time must surely be approaching when we consider the practicalities of our ambitions. We have to enquire of ourselves just how realistic are our chances, linked to our experience, and of success. We should also ask of ourselves whether we should inflict our ambitions upon our families. I'm not too sure that we have that right.

There are those who've put their families at risk for what I would consider to be entirely selfish motives. Had I such difficult or dangerous dogs, then they would be kennelled, and they would be no threat to those who I love. Try as I may, I fail to see that keeping a basically very unhappy dog alive, to only serve my own sense of self-worth, to be incredibly narcissistic, and shallow.

By all means, we should consider ourselves, but there are times when we should put the well being of the animal first, and all so often the animal's well being is best served by humane destruction.

Alec.
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Very wise words Alec, the same could be said for a lot of 'project' horses too. I think a lot of the time it is an ego boost - it is very, very rewarding to bring a bad horse or dog around. Or the 'I rescued it' kudos. However, when other, non involved people end up paying the price it becomes unacceptable.

My mothers beloved cat was killed on our property by a retired greyhound that our well meaning neighbors had 'rescued'
Of course it went for the cat, that is what it had been trained to do. Why have a bloody racing greyhound as a family house dog?
 
Dogs bite we are never ever going to breed that out of them, even the best trained one can bite with fear or pain if needed. We don't want to get bitten, we must breed dogs with no teeth.
 
equi said:
Dogs bite we are never ever going to breed that out of them, even the best trained one can bite with fear or pain if needed. We don't want to get bitten, we must breed dogs with no teeth.
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:) now excuse me while I away and polish my halo.
 
I do agree with pts dangerous dogs but only when behaviour dictates and not appearance.

Out of all the dogs we have fostered or adopted only one ever bit us, repeatedly. My OH and his friend still bear the scars. Interestingly it was the only non bull breed we have ever had here. I believed and still do that the dog should have been pts but the rescue wouldn't allow it. He was a westie x jrt. We weren't the first people had had bitten and we weren't the last either. His appearance means that people do not take his behaviour seriously. Were he a staffy he would be dead.

All the others have been bull breeds who have been treated appallingly by humans. All showed nothing except love and were able to live happily with the dogs we already had.

And I don't think the majority of people do it for kudos. They do it to help save a dogs life. Because ultimately they love dogs and in particular a certain breed and feel drawn to help them if they can.

A retired grey hound should be muzzled when not on it's own private property or off lead. And any rescue should have told the new owners that.

2 weeks ago my friends dog attacked and killed the YO's at the yard we share. She also bit the YO as she was picking her spaniel and drew blood. She is a dog bought over from Iraq as an 8 week old puppy. She has never suffered abuse (friends OH works in Iraq and had her from a tiny puppy). She is medium sized dog and looks cute and fluffy, think Littlest Hobo. Nothing is being done about it. She is extremely dog aggressive. My friend knew this yet she wasn't muzzled. I believe this dog should be pts. It won't be and I will continue to keep my dogs well away from it.

What I guess this long ramble is saying is that yes they are dogs who's behaviour warrants death. But their appearance shouldn't.
 
Shysmum said:
^^ that is a very incorrect statement, corvax

The DDA states that ANY DOG BEHAVING DANGEROUSLY IN A PUBLIC PLACE is subject to coming under the law. Why have people not grasped this ?

Further, there is legislation going through now that will prosecute owners of ANY dog if it attacks people whilst in the owners house, and yup, those dogs will have an order on them to be destroyed.

It is the owners at fault. They take on dog they CANNOT HANDLE, in the wrong environment, the dogs snaps, that's it.
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The dog in question was killed under bsl, breed specific legislation, not dda.
Copperpot said:
I do agree with pts dangerous dogs but only when behaviour dictates and not appearance.

Out of all the dogs we have fostered or adopted only one ever bit us, repeatedly. My OH and his friend still bear the scars. Interestingly it was the only non bull breed we have ever had here. I believed and still do that the dog should have been pts but the rescue wouldn't allow it. He was a westie x jrt. We weren't the first people had had bitten and we weren't the last either. His appearance means that people do not take his behaviour seriously. Were he a staffy he would be dead.

All the others have been bull breeds who have been treated appallingly by humans. All showed nothing except love and were able to live happily with the dogs we already had.

And I don't think the majority of people do it for kudos. They do it to help save a dogs life. Because ultimately they love dogs and in particular a certain breed and feel drawn to help them if they can.

A retired grey hound should be muzzled when not on it's own private property or off lead. And any rescue should have told the new owners that.

2 weeks ago my friends dog attacked and killed the YO's at the yard we share. She also bit the YO as she was picking her spaniel and drew blood. She is a dog bought over from Iraq as an 8 week old puppy. She has never suffered abuse (friends OH works in Iraq and had her from a tiny puppy). She is medium sized dog and looks cute and fluffy, think Littlest Hobo. Nothing is being done about it. She is extremely dog aggressive. My friend knew this yet she wasn't muzzled. I believe this dog should be pts. It won't be and I will continue to keep my dogs well away from it.

What I guess this long ramble is saying is that yes they are dogs who's behaviour warrants death. But their appearance shouldn't.
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THIS!!!!
 
Copperpot said:
.......

A retired grey hound should be muzzled when not on it's own private property or off lead. And any rescue should have told the new owners that.

........
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Explain to me where the justification, or the pleasure can be, in keeping such an animal, short of our own sense of self worth. Explain to me how we can keep any dog, contained by the most restrictive of practises, and then tell me that we have the best interest at heart, of anyone, but ourselves.

Alec.
 
Er shysmum, one post says your dog bit your hubs down to the bone recently, and then you claim you wouldnt have a dog that has bitten in your house? Which is it?
alec why do you think a muzzle is so very restrictive?
 
My terrier is 14, she had a stroke two months ago, a bit of dementia, and a dodgy back, and that disease that is making her blind. And a personality that is much grumpier.

I did something stupid, I lifted her tail and back up to trim her without thinking and she snapped in pain. It was my fault. She is on daily anti stroke tablets, and now metacam, and zyklene when needed, has been professionally clipped now and is a new dog. i emphasize she was in pain. And I am not proud of it.

But any dog that has bitten without a very good excuse (as in pain) is not one I could have. Believe me, Scoobie my GSD cross was the dog of my life, but I was able to work through his issues completely, and had a huge reward. if i couldn't manage it, he would have been PTS no question. none.
 
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i've had Sophie since she was three weeks old - her litter mates had been drowned. She has always been "opinionated", but no problem at all - just don't pull her around. I love her dearly, and have nightmares about losing her - but of course, if she has another bad episode she will not suffer for a second.
 
lexiedhb said:
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alec why do you think a muzzle is so very restrictive?
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It isn't the muzzle, in itself, it's the dog which has been bred, for one purpose only, the only purpose that the dog truly understands, and then it's retired, it's gifted to someone who with the best will in the world, hasn't a clue what the dog's actually about, and it spends the rest of its life, probably from the relatively young age of 4 years, and it lives in a cage. A cage of kindness, I'll grant you, but one of ignorance too, albeit it well intentioned.

I no longer keep racing greyhounds, but if I did, they would never be re-homed.

Alec.
 
It depends how your going to keep said dog. Mine are exercised on private land which is secure. So said grey hound could run muzzle free and catch rabbits til it's hearts content. I'm sure that would make for a happy dog.
 
Copperpot said:
A retired grey hound should be muzzled when not on it's own private property or off lead. And any rescue should have told the new owners that.
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It was on it's own property and jumped the fence. Had the owners known even anything at all about racing dogs they'd have known that would probably happen, and that is the problem with re-homing dogs. Too many rescues re-homing dogs inappropriately. I like dogs, love them in fact. But why on earth do people insist on taking risks when re-homing?
 
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Copperpot said:
It depends how your going to keep said dog. Mine are exercised on private land which is secure. So said grey hound could run muzzle free and catch rabbits til it's hearts content. I'm sure that would make for a happy dog.
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Absolutely ideal. I'm not anti-greyhound at all - the ones I've known have all been lovely gentle dogs, even the one that killed our cat was a nice dog, just not suited to that particular lifestyle.
 
lastchancer said:
My mothers beloved cat was killed on our property by a retired greyhound that our well meaning neighbors had 'rescued'
Of course it went for the cat, that is what it had been trained to do. Why have a bloody racing greyhound as a family house dog?
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I know a lot of people who have retired Greyhounds who live very happily with a cat, Greyhounds are difficult enough to rehome without that sort of statement, Im sorry your mums lovely cat was killed by one but you cant label them all the same. In actual fact they are not trained to kill a cat but hares.
 
All the sight hound come or should come with a warning about their urge to chase small furry animals. Just as collies come with an inbuilt instinct to round up anything that moves. Unfortunately it doesn't stop people from taking them on when they can't provide an ideal situation for them. I've gotten involved in rescue and rehoming and it's all too easy to just re home a dog even when it's not an ideal situation simply to get them out of dire circumstances.
 
I used to work in a grey hound racing kennels as a teenager, and absolutely adore them. But I would never trust one as a pet. So sad, as they have wonderful, kind and grinning personalities.
 
My dog walker specifically rehomes ex racing grayhounds and they have made wonderful pets. She does, however, muzzle when walking as almost a given and assumes anything smaller and furry could be seen as fair game. It is restrictive though but she understands and accepts these.

We have gone off piste though. I suspect there are very clear lines drawn up between those who think a pit bull is automatically prone to aggression and those of us who do not. I help in a very small way with rescue with fund raising so see a lot of what goes on behind closed doors as well. I accept some dogs wont be rehabilitated but do not accept a breed will always act in a certain manner. I am a big Stafford fan and now have 4 so clearly don't accept the media prejudice against my dogs although at the same time, accept mine have to be really really well behaved at all times as we are always on show as ambassadors for the breed.
 
Since this discussion has broadened a bit, I'm interested in the views of people regarding dogs bred to kill to hunt, and dogs simply bred, as I understand the 'pit' bull was (pit being the fighting area, I believe?) to kill.

I can see both sides to the argument, if the pit bull's genetics do make it more likely to be dangerous.


PS I found the info that they are banned or severely controlled in many US states interesting, thank you poster.
 
Depends how broad you want to go. Every terrier is bred for killing, which is the fact most small dog owners don't get and which is why most little rats are terribly aggressive and unpredictable. But it is ok it is small and cute so who cares.

I'm not a fan of anyone having a working type dog if they have not got the room and time, that covers all sheep/herding/gun/hounds. There is nothing worse than seeing a collie in a garden the size of a shed.

If a dog is bred to do something, they will want to do it. Unless you are my old golden ret, she wouldn't fetch.
 
Quite a few states have lifted the ban on BSL in the US, they were lobbied and with education the powers to be have lifted it.

A lot of dogs deemed to be Pitbulls are not, the difficulty is proving it, the tape measure is a ridiculous way to identify a dog, all breeds have different types. Ive had 5 Dobermanns now through my hands who have all looked very different, Ive also seen crosses of dogs who have looked liked Dobermanns, because they are a registered breed with a pedigree they can be identified by DNA, sadly Pitbulls cant. More people are killed by dogs in the UK that are not Pitbulls, that should say something about the ridiculous law.

The are still not addressing the real problem which is owners, I really think all dogs should be licensed and perhaps have to wear an identifying disc on their collar, the revenue from the licenses could fund more dog wardens who would have the power to take the dogs off the owner. It would affect pounds etc but hopefully only for a short while and hopefully result in fewer dogs and making people more responsible for their dogs.
 
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