Police shoot stray horse 19 times!

Stray/feral horses are always loose in the dudley, west midlands areas, they also represent public safety issues, but I am also aware of two particular cases where the rspca attended and darted them and safely transported them away. I also realise that these resources are rare and not always easy to get hold of, but if they had been trying all day then I imagine someone could have attended to dart!! I've seen marksmen get close enough to wild deer and dart or shoot them outright, so wonder why not in this case????

I've also heard of aggressive stray dogs have needed more than one shot, am am not against the use of lethal force if public safety is at risk.

My other question would be how reliable is the figure of 19? In the heat of it 9 shots could seem as horrific to someone caught up in the situation (witnessing) as 19. So I would not bear too much weight on the arguement of that exact figure.
 
I would also like to point out that a call regarding a stray horse on roads etc, is not initially the responsibility of the rspca (a charity whose officers already have too many calls to deal with) to deal, at that point it is the responsibility of the police to attend to secure public safety, hence the responce call to the witness who I assumed called due to them stating that the rspca couldn't be arsed! At the point where the police were 'trying' to catch/contain/dart/shoot the police usually would have contacted the rspca. Who do have darting officers but if these officers (baring in mind how few of them there are!) were unavailable to attend then there is very little the rspca could have done other than pay for a vet to attend, which it is already reported that a vet did attend, so how can people be slating the rspca, what for not having the resources available at a weekend to help???? That is a funding issue, not a can't be bothered issue!!!!

As said before I would query the 19 figure, but police records should have the correct amount, as each bullet fired should be recorded.

If the officers were shooting 'for' the legs then maybe they were only trained with people in mind where the mentality is non lethal shots aimed to stop the perpetrator, they may have thought legs could be fixed like dogs legs etc??? Just a thought??

I do agree that this issue needs looking into, possibly a report to the rspca or police complaints commission??? The rspca took the case of the police dogs? Again a thought?
 
competitiondiva said:
If the officers were shooting 'for' the legs then maybe they were only trained with people in mind where the mentality is non lethal shots aimed to stop the perpetrator, they may have thought legs could be fixed like dogs legs etc??? Just a thought??

QUOTE]

The Police are taught to "shoot to stop", not "shoot to injure". They are taught to shoot in the chest - NEVER the legs or any other limb. They also practice on animal targets - specifically on bull's heads as they are the most likely animal to escape. So they should have shot the horses directly in the head. Basically, if they shot a human suspect in the legs, it is still considered that they are not safe and could still pick up and fire a weapon. The reason an ambulance is on standby in firearms situations is because when they have shot someone, they still have to try and save their life. Police should have 100% been trying to shoot to kill the horses - they should not have been trying to injure it. They were clearly poor shots and should not have been trusted with a water pistol. I hope their firearms certificates are revoked and they are sent back dealing with children stealing sweets from the local shopping centre as they clearly are incapable of doing the job they are supposedly trained to do.
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For those who wanted the Police contact email - it is given on post number 30 with a link.
I am local to this ghastly incident. I agree with the comments about the number of shots fired - but frankly - if you even half nineteen and say 9 - it is still far too many. I think the true number can only be proved by the hard evidence of the carcass - which has gone, the photographs - which have not yet surfaced - or the police records....which might take some time....?
Witnesses have come forward, but not to my knowledge the poster of the appalling eye-witness account - the other witnesses were apparently further away, but I have heard that the accounts are the same.
As far as I can ascertain, the horse was downed by the shots to its legs as it was part of a group which were fleeing in open country.
Two horses have definitely been shot dead - no question of that.
No vet or welfare present - fact.
Horses were not on the road - fact.
Horses had been out for days rather than hours - fact.
Horses were part of a much larger herd which had been sold by elderly widow of deceased.
Unbeknown to elderly widow some escaped during removal by unscrupulous purchasers - widow very distressed.
Two horses are alive and caught - headcollars on - one, a mare, has injuries which are being professionally treated.
The Operation to shoot all the horses therefore failed by 50% - so two horses were not deemed a hazard and left running about...?
The RSPCA were involved to begin with - but gave up - fact
The vet regrettably left - fact. So we have no qualified eyewitness account.
All in all a poor state of affairs and one from which lessons need to be learned.
 
NO.....!

I think that the Police investigation into their handling of this has stopped most journalism in its tracks. It will then be weeks - if not months before they reach a conclusion, and by then they will hope it has all been forgotten about.
:mad:
 
I am sickened and disgusted, there is no excuse and there should be some sort of enquiry - I will sign any letter or petition and am about to email this person at NYP.

I cannot believe this has happened totally and utterly shocked :mad:
 
My email to Paul Richardson - I had to rewrite it several times as I was so so angry :mad:


Dear Sir

I have read the eyewitness account of the shooting of these horses and I am absolutely disgusted with yourselves, the vet, and the RSPCA.

I have several questions:

1) Why did it take 19 shots to kill the chestnut pony and why was there 25 minutes between the first and the last shot?

2) What threat did these horses cause when they were nowhere near a road and were in fact on a private estate?

3) Why were the RSPCA not present at the time of the shootings?

4) Why was THE VET not present at the time of the shootings?

These horses were NOT wild, they were unhandled and frightened - any experienced horseperson could have told you this and I am at a loss to understand why you did not consult one. If you had contacted either the BHS or WHW they would have been pleased to assist you I am sure. Instead your marksmen appear to have caused untold suffering through their own incompetance.

Please do not throw costs at me as an excuse, both of the above organisations would have provided help FREE OF CHARGE! I fail to understand why you did not contact either of these charities for help.

I would normally be one of the first people to defend police action, but this has sickened me to the core and I know I am not the only one who feels this way.

I await your answers with interest.

Yours sincerely



Can't wait for his reply:mad:
 
I sent the following on Friday in response to the pitiful reply I got:

Dear Mr. Richardson,

I have to disagree with just about everything you said. The RSPCA were contacted by one of the eyewitnesses, but did NOT want to know. If they responded to you, then I would not trust them as far as I could throw them. It was because of them that a man died in custody. See: http://www.cumberlandnews.co.uk/new...an-family-to-sue-rspca-1.740943?referrerPath= They also killed ten German Shepard dogs WITHOUT contacting any of the rescue organizations first. See: http://www.germanshepherdrescue.co.uk/gsd-shot-by-rspca.html As for vets, a good lot of them will recommend killing a perfectly animal, even if they have an easily corrected behavioural issue. I have seen dogs put on death row for simply barking at strangers.

The horse were NOT wild. Just scared witless due to being chased by 4x4s and all your shouting and running about.

Regarding the "danger" they posed to the public. Why could you not have closed the road or told drivers to drive slowly. Then again, you could not have possibly had motorists inconvenienced. That would have been a far greater crime than all the pain and terror you instilled into those poor horses.

I am still absolutely disgusted by this.

Your force has a lot of questions to answer.

Their reply (also received on Friday):

Hello Ms Somerville.

In view of the concerns you have raised I have forwarded your e mail to officers within the York Safer Neighbourhood Team in order for them to possibly provide you with further information.

Unfortunately, as yet, I am not aware who is dealing with this matter so it may well take a few days for you to receive a reply.

Thank You

Nigel Mathers
Team Leader
North Yorkshire Police
Force Control Room
York.
0845 6060247

Will let you all know if that "further information" materializes.
 
OMG, I cannot get over the lack of media coverage - it just feels like it's being swept under the carpet (thank god for those of you who've taken the time to get this out there).
I've just looked on Facebook to set up a group, however it states the following:

Note: groups that attack a specific person or group of people (e.g. racist, sexist, or other hate groups) will not be tolerated. Creating such a group will result in the immediate termination of your Facebook account

Whilst the majority will submit sensible comments, there's no way of monitoring content to ensure the administrator doesn't get barred - unless anyone's willing to take the risk (sadly I can't)
I'm currently toying with adding the Horse and Hound News link to British Dressage Northern Group and Horse and Hound Facebook pages - someone tell me it will be ok? (i'm such a wimp)

In the meantime I'll also follow up to the papers this week now I'm back in the office.

I'm baffled by the Daily Mail - they can report this news story, but not one about the Police shooting horses???

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...unt-gang-pushed-screws-apples-fed-horses.html
 
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millimoo said:
OMG, I cannot get over the lack of media coverage - it just feels like it's being swept under the carpet (thank god for those of you who've taken the time to get this out there).
I've just looked on Facebook to set up a group, however it states the following:

Note: groups that attack a specific person or group of people (e.g. racist, sexist, or other hate groups) will not be tolerated. Creating such a group will result in the immediate termination of your Facebook account

Whilst the majority will submit sensible comments, there's no way of monitoring content to ensure the administrator doesn't get barred - unless anyone's willing to take the risk (sadly I can't)
I'm currently toying with adding the Horse and Hound News link to British Dressage Northern Group and Horse and Hound Facebook pages - someone tell me it will be ok? (i'm such a wimp)

In the meantime I'll also follow up to the papers this week now I'm back in the office.

I'm baffled by the Daily Mail - they can report this news story, but not one about the Police shooting horses???

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...unt-gang-pushed-screws-apples-fed-horses.html
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I agree that doing a dedicated group on Facebook might not be the best thing to do for the reasons you listed. However, I have come across a heck of a lot of "I Hate" groups aimed at the likes of the police and armed services. With more than colourful language to boot. You might get away with creating such groups, then again you might not.

What about a free webpage, making sure the link is spread everywhere possible? That's probably the way to go in this situation.

As for the Daily Mail article - it is good they've published it, but there might be some kind of media block (as suggested before) on this story.
 
I'm getting highly suspicious about the lack of publicity over this. I rang the News Desk at the Daily Mail yesterday, after emailing them twice last week, and they said they were investigating it. The DM is pretty quick on reporting things that happen to Cheryl Cole, why can't it act a bit quicker on this! I also rang the BHS welfare department who said they'd get back to me today. I'll wait and see. I also spoke to (I think) Abigail Butcher at H&H, and I was told that depending on space and whether they judge if there's been a "hysterical reaction" and "one should be careful of the accuracy of some of these reports" (a view I can sympathise with) they may take this further. At least there's now an item on the Online Edition.

I emailed WHW last week, and I've heard nothing since.

There is no doubt this incident took place, and whether it took 19 attempts or 2, to dispatch this horse the operation was carried out disgracefully, and don't let's forget the vet's part (or lack of) in this.
 
Abigail Butcher is not remotely interested in anything to do with animal welfare - unless it's a big news story allready.........
 
I must say I got the impression it wasn't top of her priority list.

What's going on with this case? Is it me or is there something "not right" about the media shut-down?
 
Daffodil said:
What's going on with this case? Is it me or is there something "not right" about the media shut-down?
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Can't think there's any conspirocy - it's just not terribly newsworthy...... (although a hell of a stink was made during F&M when those sheep were used for target practice!)
 
I will quite gladly add my name to any petition, to get the the bottom off this and hopefully the people responsible are held in account.

Perhaps if someone could post this thread in new lounge, I know I only look in latest news every now and then and its the first time ive heard of this

poor ponies I felt sick reading the eye witness account, the stress, fear and pain they must have been put through, im sure any local horse person could have dealt with this alot better, why didnt the police ask people who knew what they were doing to help rather than getting gun happy and what really sounds like they were taking pop shots... poor ponies RIP you poor little things
 
It was certainly newsworthy here in York - the article received an unprecedented number of comments. However, I think that once the Police have said they are investigating the matter all the media wait for the conclusion. It is a shame that due to the circumstances of their escape, this sorry little group of horses had no-one to champion them on the day & now their fate may be consigned to the result of an internal Police inquiry.

:mad:
 
Quite apart from the horror and agony suffered by those poor horses (something I try and put to the back of my mind, and which haunts me still)
I really feel that this country needs to be aware that the police are now tending to shoot (incompetently) first and ask questions later.
 
Well, looking at the stories of a dumped dog, and a horse who's apples were spiked with nails and screws - see my previous post for link, I think it's very odd that they won't report on this (if anything it's more news worthy)

I have also now contacted the Daily Mail, The Sun & the Telegraph. I've asked for a response to my mail, and will let you know if I here anything else.
 
Can I also suggest that concerned people directly email the North Yorkshire Police general enquiries address (general.enquiries@northyorkshire.pnn.police.uk) indicating your disgust at the way these horses were treated? I suggest you ask for your email to be passed to Superintendent Andy Mulligan who is coordinating an investigation into the incident- and don't be put off by a placatory email that may come your way shortly afterwards- insist the email is sent to the Superintendent for consideration. Let's demonstrate how much we deplore the way these animals were treated. Police forces are sensitive to Public Relations- they are public servants after all- and although we can't help those two horses we can make the police think twice before acting the same way in the future.

(also posted in the other thread on this topic)
 
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