POLL: Should riders wear equine clothing that closely resembles Police uniform?

[Sixteen Hands]

Should riders continue to wear equine clothing that closely resembles Police uniform following the statement (below) from Rod Hansen, Assistant Chief Constable, ACPO - national lead for mounted policing within the United Kingdom?

YES or NO

(The following extract is from a British Horse Society press release which also contains responses from two manufacturers - see the full press release at: http://www.bhs.org.uk/our-charity/p...lothing-that-closely-resembles-police-uniform

"Equine clothing that closely resembles Police uniform

To The British Horse Society:

I write as the national lead for mounted policing within the United Kingdom in order to clarify the position with regard to equine clothing that closely resembles police uniform. As an influential and respected publication serving the equestrian community, I thought it might be helpful if I set out the legal position from a policing perspective to assist your readers and prevent any misunderstanding.

Over recent months a number of examples of high visibility equine apparel have been brought to my attention. These articles have caused concern to the police on the grounds that individuals wearing them are likely to be mistaken for being a police officer due to the design closely resembling police uniform. I have therefore sought advice on the legality of these designs, which has identified the following as the three main characteristics of police high visibility uniform:

Wording – police high visibility clothing typically has POLICE printed as a contrasting block of letters prominently displayed to the rear and/or front.

Colour – police high visibility uniform is universally yellow.

Chequered Banding – police high visibility clothing commonly uses blue/silver chequered banding, this colour being standardised by international convention.

The conclusion of these enquiries is that any item of clothing that has been manufactured to match these characteristics of police uniform is at risk of contravening legislation, namely Section 90 Police Act 1996. The ultimate decision about the legitimacy of any individual product is yet to be defined conclusively by any court, but the legal standard as enacted is an objective measure of whether the clothing worn by an individual, and/or their horse, would give the impression that that rider is a police officer when they are not. As such, any wording displayed on clothing which is similar in appearance to ‘POLICE’ (i.e. in a shape, format or font used on police uniform), even if is spelt differently, would leave the wearer at risk of breaching the law, particularly if the other characteristics are present.

It is apparent that this issue has been subject to considerable debate through equine forums and I wish therefore to clarify the position from the police’s perspective for your readers so that they appreciate the risks associated with wearing such products and/or designs. I would also like to take this opportunity to confirm that whilst the police would support any work to make the roads safer, we do not endorse or recommend any specific high visibility products or manufacturer, nor have we done so.

Yours faithfully,
Rod Hansen, Assistant Chief Constable, ACPO Lead for Mounted Policing"

 

[fburton]

Yes, if they think and/or find it makes a difference in terms of safety, and if they aren't intending to impersonate a police officer. I think the benefits probably outweigh any potential harm. (By harm, I mean bad things happening directly as a result of the clothing being worn, not the risk of being prosecuted which is entirely up to the police/CPS and seems rather against the public interest as things stand.)

ETA: I would like to hear what Mr Hansen thinks are the downsides of wearing clothing that causes riders to be fleetingly mistaken for police apart from the fact that it may contravene the existing legislation.

 

[Girlracer]

With the dangers we can face hacking out then i think yes, and let's be honest if you thought about it and looked carefully enough you would know it wasn't a police officer. However for general public having a brief glimpse from a distance that second thought of is it or isn't it might be enough to get them to slow down a bit and may well save lives.

 

[Dobermann Girl]

Yes we should wear it, yes I will continue to wear it. I'm not impersonating a police officer, I just want to hack out in safety. If it means someone driving to fast to close ect and my clothing makes them think twice it is saving lives. Surely that is the more important issue.

 

[Dry Rot]

Yes.

Your first duty is to protect yourself. Second, to protect your horse and others.

A half tonne horse through a car windscreen doesn't really help anyone!

 

[Bigbenji]

Yes wear it. As long as you don't have handcuffs and a truncheon poking out your pocket!
Geeze with all the worries in the world!
Surely drivers should be slowing down for horses full stop. Anything that makes someone take their foot off the gas and consider driving more carefully is surely a good thing? Maybe the police should try riding out on the roads to see it through riders eyes?
I actually wear plain hi viz but if something makes people feel safe then let it be. Plenty of real crimes the police could be cracking on with!

 

[Keen]

No. It is horribly naff. Fatty ladies on fatty cobs are fooling no one. You look ridiculous.

 

[Sargey]

No. It is horribly naff. Fatty ladies on fatty cobs are fooling no one. You look ridiculous.

Hahaha love it!

Apart from the fact that it looks silly, surely any decent person will slow down if they see a horse whether you are a police officer or not, the type of person who wont, will more than likely have little respect for the police too, therefore will it really make a difference?

The other point is that police horses are completely bombproof so would it not have the opposite effect? People may think there is no point in slowing down or giving it a wide berth as they are trained to work in all conditions.

 

[fburton]

Apart from the fact that it looks silly,

Agree that isn't an argument at all, paling into insignificance when safety is the issue. The whole anti Bertie Bassett argument was demolished fairly comprehensively here last year...

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=536381

surely any decent person will slow down if they see a horse whether you are a police officer or not, the type of person who wont, will more than likely have little respect for the police too, therefore will it really make a difference?

There will be good drivers who slow down for horses no matter what. There will also be a few antisocial drivers who don't respect even the police and will drive inconsiderately no matter what. However, I suspect they are very much in the minority. Finally, there will be some drivers that have their attention grabbed by vehicles and riders that give the visual impression, however fleetingly, that they are police-related. It is at this last group that the POLITE tabards are targeted.

The other point is that police horses are completely bombproof so would it not have the opposite effect? People may think there is no point in slowing down or giving it a wide berth as they are trained to work in all conditions.

That would certainly be an argument for avoiding giving the impression that you have a bombproof horse, if it was true. Is it? I haven't heard any evidence for it, and indeed those who have reported that it seems to make a difference have tended to say the opposite - that it helps.

If people think and/or find it makes a difference in terms of safety, and impersonating a police officer isn't intended, why shouldn't they wear this clothing? And those people who think and/or find the opposite, they can eschew (or stop) wearing it. Simples!

 

[Keen]

To be clear, I am all for riders wearing hi-viz on the roads.

The things I object to are:

intentionally misleading other people;
doing something the police have asked you not to do;
and looking like a twerp.

 

[Freddie19]

Suggest the police should have better things to do......Like following up dangerous drivers reported to them by riders who have been (with their horses) frightened half to death by speeding drivers on quiet country roads, maybe then riders would not have to wear hi-viz jackets that bear a very slight resemblance to correct POLICE tabards...Know I am going to kick up a storm, but am a supporter of good police tactics...not target hitting ones...

 

[fburton]

Fair enough, Keen. I personally think your three factors are pretty minor compared to potential safety - especially numbers two and three which come into the 'eye of the beholder' category, one way or another.

Incidentally, I'm not sure the police have asked people not to wear these tabards. Mr Hansen had the opportunity to do so in his letter, but chose instead to talk about 'risk of breaching the law', which seems a bit vague to me. AIUI, the risk is associated with intent to impersonate a police officer. However, further clarification would be appreciated.

And quite apart from that, it is debatable whether the police should be seeking prosecutions for wearing deceptive tabards.

 

[Keen]

maybe then riders would not have to wear hi-viz jackets that bear a very slight resemblance to correct POLICE tabards...

Well that’s the problem, actually.

I know I said they don’t fool anyone, but I was being facetious. True enough most people look nothing like a police officer in their togs, but there is one lady at my yard who is really built like a WPC, and whose horse is really built like a police horse – and the effect of her chequered hat band, POLITE tabard and chequered horse gear is really uncanny. I know full well that it says POLITE and I still looked at her twice when out and about.

If I had just had a car or cycle or horse riding accident, or been lumped round the head by my drunk husband, and ran out into the road ... and lo! a horse rider appeared looking that much like a Police officer, I would be more than willing to believe that they are what they claim they are, and were there to help me.

If, actually, you’d be f* all use in such a situation, you shouldn’t dress up as a police officer.

I could not put the stuff on knowing full well the Police would rather it didn’t exist.

ETA: took me ages to post owing to slowing typing as I have flu - I didn't see Fburton's reply. I think the letter is pretty clear in its tone and position, FB, though I often respect your posts. And you can be safe (and a driver liable) without being essentially dishonest - IMHO. I should probably stop posting though as I am more than a little feverish and suspect my spelling is bad ....

 

[Holly Hocks]

but there is one lady at my yard who is really built like a WPC

OMG! I can't believe you have just written this - explain what you mean exactly by "built like a WPC" - I wasn't aware that female Police Officers were built in any particular way.

I've actually just been given an ex police reflective coat by a friend who is a Police Officer - I've taken the Police sign off it and the epaulettes and now it looks like a long sleeved reflective jacket with the blue chequerband on only - you can get these from ebay and from various ex-service clothing providers fairly cheap - loads of pockets in as well. And the one I've been given also has the side zips in as well so perfect for hacking out in.

 

[muckypony]

I really would have thought the police would have better things to do than worry about the clothing people are wearing to try and make themselves, their hroses, and other members of the public safer

A fellow livery who was also a police woman gave me an old flourescent exercise sheet of hers once - I put silver duct tape over the wording but not the chequered part and yes, I genuinely think it made people slow down more for me. I had a plain flourescent exercise sheet too and always found that people drove past at speed when I use that one.

I too agree that those who wouldn't slow down for a horse on the roads with a plain flourescent tabard on, are likely to have very little respect for the police...

 

[WelshD]

I honestly dont see why it matters if people wear this stuff. Police on horses dont tend to wander the lanes arresting people after all. If people are fooled by it and slow down where is the harm in that, presumably the horse rider isnt about to try and arrest someone and the driver should have been happy to slow down anyway

I really think this latest 'campaign' smells funny and the actual 'problem' is secondary to some sort of grudge or competative jealousy

A few people have commented on the poor customer service of the company but I honestly think no business deserves to be railroaded out of the market with the potential of more job losses

 

[Janette]

It's ironic that the matter was brought to the attention of the police by members of the public complaining that they had been 'deceived' into thinking horse riders were Police Officers.
Deceived into what? Slowing down to a reasonable speed?

Incidentally, a walking couple commented to me that they thought I was a mounted police officer.... I was wearing a yellow and orange hi vis vest over my coat, and a hat band..... And riding a coloured cob. Does that make me a law breaker?

 

[Keen]

OMG! I can't believe you have just written this - explain what you mean exactly by "built like a WPC" - I wasn't aware that female Police Officers were built in any particular way.

Seriously? I can't see what is scandalous about that. She is not built like a ballerina, nor a body builder. Nor the lady from the cake shop. She has good general fitness and musculature.

 

[fburton]

ETA: took me ages to post owing to slowing typing as I have flu - I didn't see Fburton's reply. I think the letter is pretty clear in its tone and position, FB, though I often respect your posts. And you can be safe (and a driver liable) without being essentially dishonest - IMHO. I should probably stop posting though as I am more than a little feverish and suspect my spelling is bad ....

If you have read my posts, you will know that I like to play Devil's Advocate on occasion. I appreciate both sides here. I'm simply arguing from my libertarian inclinations, and find the vague threat in the letter a bit, well, hidebound when frankly there are far more important things for the police to worry about - but that's just me.

Anyway, I hope you feel better soon.

 

[Goldenstar]

It's ironic that the matter was brought to the attention of the police by members of the public complaining that they had been 'deceived' into thinking horse riders were Police Officers.
Deceived into what? Slowing down to a reasonable speed?

Incidentally, a walking couple commented to me that they thought I was a mounted police officer.... I was wearing a yellow and orange hi vis vest over my coat, and a hat band..... And riding a coloured cob. Does that make me a law breaker?

No it does not make you a law breaker it makes the couple mistaken .

 

[Janette]

Lol, I realise that. It was rhetorical.

 

[Spyda]

Definitely. What's wrong with it? If a glimpse of a 'potential' copper in the distance is enough to get a speeding driver to slow down - who care's if they've made a mistake? Horse riders are hardly going to go around literally impersonating officers in their actions, are they? So who honestly cares. It's a lot of fuss about absolutely nothing important. God

 

[Sixteen Hands]

It's a lot of fuss about absolutely nothing important. :

If it is, I wonder why the Police have made an official statement?

 

[fburton]

If it is, I wonder why the Police have made an official statement?

Obviously the police think it important enough to make an official statement, presumably in response to a letter from the BHS. I'd be interested to hear how important they think it is and why they think it's that important. Unfortunately, they don't tend to discuss that kind of thing in public, possibly because they believe it risks undermining their authority. My guess is they don't think it is terribly important. If they thought riders wearing POLITE tabards represented a road safety hazard, or was liable to cause a breach of the peace, or had implications in terms of terrorism, then their letter would have been worded more strongly and probably would have made a more high-profile announcement. I imagine they hope people will be discouraged enough by the vague threat of prosecution and people's natural inclination to think that if they make an official statement it must be important!

 

[FRESHMAN]

Many years ago I put this situation to test. Often a local (ish) mounted Police branch used to park their Police horse box at my yard then ride out. They did this as a training excersise to take mainly younger horses out with a more established older horse. Also for the older horse it was to take them to unfamiliar territory. The point is they quickly realised that when I rode without the " police escort" for want of a better description (ie: take a dropped back position at the rear) majority of the drivers were quite aggresive, showing no consideration when approaching, or passing my horse. When passing the Police in the uniform it was a totally different story. Even to the extent of stopping & giving way on the officer wanting to make a right turn. At the time this was documented on both the radio, newspapers & even tv.
More recently one of my lady liveries actually arrived in what definately looked like "police & horse uniform" she also claimed it worked wonders whilst out hacking.