Pony bit my face today....

soulfull said:
Whilst I agree this pony needs putting in its place. I'm worried it has also gone too far now in that when you first stand up to it, it is VERY likely to be even more aggressive at least to start with.
The fact that pony is also unpredictable is not good.

Honestly I would be likely to PTS, without tests!

I have had horses that were in pain and NEVER have they attacked me so pain is no excuse and as this one came at you in a field without you doing anything it is unlikely to be the full reason.


What just may help is to put a more dominant horse in the field with her, someone to show her her place! I know this works with bolshy horses but whether this has gone to far I don't know
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Ditto this.

It may well have gone too far, I have come across a couple of horses that would not back down, so be careful if you do try to reprimand her, as others have said, keep yourself safe.

This is supposed to a be a child's pony and if it were mine it would be PTS. You were minding your own business and she invaded you space and attacked you, there is no excuse for that, I'm afraid.
 
Poor OP. Hope that you're ok.

I too think that I would have a grazing muzzle on the horse for the time being. Once the horse realises that she can't bite it may help.

I think that this is natural mare behaviour, and not an inbalance at all. Definately speak to your vet about it, and see what they think, but it sounds more like behaviour issues.

I have a very grumpy mare. She used to be like this with my husband, who was a novice. He didn't make her move over etc, he would just ask her, and if she didn't he would go round her - so she had no respect for him, thinking him beneath her in the pecking order. One day, when I was away on a trip, she kicked the door in the back of the stable clean off its hinges, backed up, and wouldn't let him out of the tackroom area at the back. He had to climb over the beam into the next stable to get out. I came home from my trip, and hid to watch them the next day. She was vile to him. As soon as I appeared she was fine. With them, we fixed it by hiding a whip in the doorway to her stable. The horse was slightly whip shy, so if he asked her to move over and she didn't, he only had to pick up the whip, and she gave in. He also had to push her around the stable a lot - he got a lot of swishing initially, but she did what he asked. Quite quickly the balance changed, and he has no problems with her now.

I would get someone very experienced to come. Someone who has had their own yard for years. Not NH, just an experienced horseman/woman. Let them have a mess around and see what they think. I've met many people who avoid some of the good horsemen in our region because they will hit a horse, and they'd rather go down the NH route, so they send it to someone softer, but most of these horsepeople will only have to hit them the once, and the horse knows there is authority, so knows its place and relaxes. Often the aggressive horse is actually a very insecure horse, that needs to feel safe in its position in the herd (horse and human). A lot of people call this type of horse the alpha mare, but usually the alpha horse doesn't get into fights unless there really is a problem..

Hope that I've explained this ok. I don't mean that it needs battering, but a good smack will be needed at some point, or the horse will never back down. Best of luck to you. Hope it works out, but if not PTS would be the only other alternative...
 
Foxhunter49 said:
It might be a hormonal imbalance or it could just be that she is testing her boundaries and by the sound of things you are being way to soft with her.

I can assure you that I have well mannered, very laid back TBs that know the rules and boundaries and even if they are in pain or discomfort they will NOT get away with biting or kicking anyone.

Stop pushing her away when she threatens or tries to bit and instead give her a darn good hard slap with an open hand across her muzzle. Stop being overly gentle with her in her ticklish areas and get on and handle them. Get a bamboo pole stuff a glove wiirh some straw or shavings and tape it to the end stand by her shoulder and use that to poke into places that Heineken does not reach. Boss her. If she moves into you shover her back hard. Do not allow her to blink without you permission.

She is meant to be a child's pony and as such she needs to learn respect and unless you start owning the air that she breathes she is never going to be safe around children.

It is all very well looking for excuses and reasons for an animal misbehaving and often they are there but 99% of the time these reasons are minor and it is just because the people handling them are afraid to take the lead and be the boss.

Horses that are bullies need to be bullied back, give them a dose of their own treatment and as with most bullies they soon back down. I am not advocating beating her up - just making her know that you are not going to take her ill manners and that you can and will put her in her place if she does not comply.
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I actually agree with this post. Although I would never condone violence towards any animal, Horses need to learn what is ok and what is not. They need a strong leader to look up to and if she doesn't listen when you push her away you have to make her listen. I wouldn't beat the horse but I would be more forceful. She is so much bigger and powerful than you you just can't let her get away with things like this, not mentioning the fact she is supposed to be a child's pony, this behavior (from a 4 y/o) is just not good enough !!

She needs to learn who is boss, and quickly before she hurts someone else even worse.
My horse bit me once, I smacked him on the nose. He never did it again and that was 6 years ago, a happy horse is one that KNOWS right from wrong. Like a child really. I have no problem smacking my horse (although that is the only occasion he has ever been smacked) if I or anyone else is in danger, but ONLY under these Circumstances. What she did today was just totally out of order and I wouldn't have hesitated giving her a good smack on the nose, and I would have done if it were my horse.
 
I think the OP has made it clear from the second post that they've already tried a common sense approach - I don't think the mare is walking all over them and she does have a serious issue. OP, I hope you make a speedy recovery and you and your sister find the right solution for her, whatever it may be.
 
I am so sorry.
This is a dangerous pony.
My advice is to PTS, before it kills someone, in my experiencethis unprovoked aggression can't be turned around, it was neglected before you had it, for a reason, I guess.

So so sorry.....
 
Would your sister not get an experienced professinal in to have a look at her? Isn't going to cost any mroe than £50 unless your in the sticks, and tbh this mare may wll be taking the pee..
I've had ponies who will lunge at you before.. you just kept out of their way unless you had a headcollar on and have the stable/field between you if you don't, but that worked in a sensible grown up environment, not in a kiddy environment.
 
I would either PTS or get a bit tough in this situation and TELL her that your in charge and such behaviour wont be tolerated.

In a herd situation she would have been given one heck of a kicking for such a social breach.

I hope your face heals soon and your confidence isnt too badly dented.
 
Exactly what use is a little pony who is nasty ,ponies are for children ..if adults don`t go near it without being armed in some way then it will NEVER be safe around children.Shoot it..tomorrow.
 
The_Hooligan said:
once again foxhunter has advised abuse to deal with a problem, please ignore her/him.
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Perhaps you would like to smack it round the face with a lead rope clip a la Pirrelli stylie?

A young horse that does that in the wild would be double barrelled by a higher ranking horse in the herd if it ignored all the other signs. Whilst we are not horses that is the discipline they understand.
 
I would
Get checks done if all comes back all well and good then youve got to consider other possiblitys
To why she is like this
I have to disagree with people saying use punishment
To rectify the problem
It s probley abusing the said animal to why she is like
This , when a horse / pony are abused they put up barriers such as a defence mechanism
The behaviours Inc chargin ,barring teeth , charging then swinging around and kicking out , or just plain ears back and wrinkle noise
Do you work the mare ?? If not maybe said mare is bored and needs a placement I'n working if she cantle worked , maybe Longreining , walk out I'n hand etc
Get your self a pressure halter
And do some work I'n the school
If not then maybe getting a person I'n that understands behaviour problems I'n equines
 
Hmmm obviously checks need to be made first but it sounds like she's confused and at an age where she's finding her feet and trying to have her own way in life, a horse needs to know its place, where ever that is in the heard/pecking order, once they know this they feel content, they have a purpose.

I had the same problem for a while with my lad when he was a younger, all 16h of him coming at me, not just threats neither, he's gone to attack me, kicked out, reared at me, he tried every trick in the book and yes its dam scary and very dangerous so I understand how frustrating and disheartening it can be.

Took a while, there is no quick fix and there is nobody who can come along and spend a week on her and change her, once there like that it takes time to gain respect and trust and it comes from both sides, could take 6 months of hard work, careful understanding and management.

Ideally one person needs to handle and look after this pony, also the pony needs a strict routine on a daily basis and a job, so it knows the difference between time spent with a human and time spent in the field with other equines, don't cuddle or molly coddle her, keep things strictly business...if you see what I mean.

Suppose its hard to suggest things without seeing how your sister handles her, I do think it would be worth getting someone down to spend some time with the mare and your sister to ensure she's doing everything right.

If someone is prepaired to put the work and time in then hopefully the pony will be a different kettle of fish in time, after all its only a 4yr old.

Thing is, is the pony going to be suitable as a childs pony in due course, probably not for a long while, unless the problem is sorted now as in starting the process.

I don't think it sounds like a pony that needs to be pts not at all, but unless someone is willing to put the danger time in then it would be a more sensible option on your sisters part but also a great shame, as there could be a nice pony under all that bad temperedness.
 
ummm was she in season? showing signs ? ummmmm thats such freak behaviuor for a pony/horse! so shes tender when saddling? - if in season is she sore hurting moody - sorry before writing her off can you not investigate - horses are not bad naturally - they are prey animals and react for a reason and only to protect self( we may not understand why ) - and normally reason is caused by us the humans - so without seeing the pony think -look at how you handle when any thing happens( is she in season) times whose around horse and human - anything and everything - so so hope you sort this as so many horses/ponies written off with out asking why is this happening - good luck and huge hugs xxx
 
We had a very grumpy mare where I use to work and it turned out to be stomache ulcers, she was also sensitive to touch around her tummy area. Hope that it is the outcome as it is easily fixed with the right medication.
 
Honestly this is a child's pony you are talking about. A child's pony!

Yes do the tests.Test for ulcers,check if its food season related etc but at the end of the day you should seriously consider the PTS option.

Reselling as a project now will not help.If your determined to want to pass her on.Then scope the mare look for ulcers and check her ovaries first and see if there are issues there,they may be treatable.

But if there isn't though or further tests are not an option then for the sake of the poor child who may someday get someday might end up with her in the future.PTS.

She's only 4 now.Who knows how many homes that horse may go through in its life particularly if she has these issues making her worth much less....

If your feeling guilty then give her a summer out of being a horse before the end of her days.

Its one thing if she was going to be an adults horse but she's a child's pony and a aggressive horse can do to much damage to a youngster.

With time yes you may overcome a lot of behavioral issues.Time patience and someone who is willing to take her in hand and risk the bites kicks etc.

But she sounds like a severe case..and in all honesty would you ever trust her alone with small children again?because at her size she will likely end up in a scenario with children involved.
 
We had a pony (still have her actually) who became increasingly aggressive. We had the vet out who examined her for things like ovarian cysts. She couldn't find anything, but put her on a course of Regumate. OMG, it was like a miracle drug! She changed pretty much over-night.

Maybe get your sister to speak to her vet and ask for some? It wasnt massively expensive and i'm certain it couldn't make her any worse. I agree it probably isn't worth spending lots of £'s on trying to find a medical 'excuse' for her behaviour, but if it IS anything hormone-related, Regumate would help. :)
 
SJcrazee said:
If this pony were mine, I'm sorry to say it would be shot. Harsh I know but once it's done this once it'll do it again. My children's safety and the safety of others on the yard would come far and above any sentimental feelings about said pony. NO WAY would I "rehome" (dump my problem on someone else) it.
In this day and age there are many lovely childrens ponies on the market at sensible prices, I would far rather get rid of the dangerous one and aquire one of these.

And, like Foxhunter if I had a pony come at me like that - I'd belt it too, I cannot afford to be off work having surgery or whatever poncing around trying to "make it my friend".

Like I say, you lot don't like hearing it, but the kennels would be recieving fresh meat first thing tomorrow morning.
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This^^^ And I don't say it lightly, but it's not often a horse (and a mare at that) will bite that viciously. Have her PTS then find something safe. If it does that to a child it could blind or scar them for life.
 
peerielee said:
I would talk to the vet then if the vet advise being pts then go down that route.
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I haven't read all the replies. Do you know the pony's full history? Has it ever been abused? I ask as my 6 yr old WB was like this and he is 17hh. He has bitten me viciously and also tried to kick and stike me. I had conflicting advice as it seems you have had on here. 'Oh you are too soft - not acting as a leader - he doesn't respect you' then 'he is in pain and desperately trying to tell you something is wrong' also was told that he was being aggressive as a defence mechanism.
So many conflicting advices. Best advice I had was to get him on a calmer - which I did - RelaxMe and I had him scoped for ulcers - which he had and I had treated. His were only low grade and he still has a pain issue - proved by putting him on Danilon.
His attitude has changed dramatically 6 months down the line. He is now a loving horse - he doesn't go to bite or kick. He was recently hospitalised at the vet's for a bad eye ulcer and he hates stables, yet the vet was medicating him in the stable with no headcollar on - absolutely amazing change!!! I don't want to start a debate on here, but I had an AC done which helped me to confirm pain and abuse in my horse.
My horse came so very very close to being pts. The thing is ask any vet and they will tell you that it is extremely unusual for a horse to be aggressive. There is 99% of the time an underlying reason/cause.
That said be very careful and look after your welfare and anyone else handling the pony. Good luck!
 
I think there is a world of difference between a horse that bites and a horse that flies at you intending to do real damage. It does sound like the latter in this case.

My dad had a gelding (aptly called The Sod) who would do this. No warning, no ears back, nothing then suddenly he would fly at you. He always aimed for the face and he'd travel 20-30m to get you. After he did it to me my dad put him in a field on his own so nobody could get injured. That was his decision and as an adult he could decide if he wished to risk being attacked.

But in your case its a childs pony and I worry that she will injure a child badly. If you cant get to the bottom of it with your vet (and it is possible that you wont) then I would seriously think about PTS. I dont say that lightly, I'm not a PTS'er usually but cannot think the risk of badly injuring a child
 
OP, whatever happens, I would have strong words with your sister about selling this animal on as a project. The problem with some buyers is that no matter how honest you are, they don't listen and are convinced either the problem is not as bad as you are saying it is, or that they are a better horse person than they actually are. I honestly would not pass this mare on. We had a little pony who was very grumpy and aggressive, although I could trust her with my children. She developed an illness that could not be cured, only managed and the side effect was her behaviour went right down hill. I made the very hard decision to put to sleep as she was going for my kids and other animals in the field, so she couldn't be retired either. She was thirty, so had had a good long life, but I don't think being any younger would have made a difference to my decision. This mare has gone too far and unless some one can give you a real reason why she is doing this, such as ulcers, I would't put any one in the position where she could do this again. I am sorry.
 
0ldmare said:
I think there is a world of difference between a horse that bites and a horse that flies at you intending to do real damage.
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Agreed - though a horse that bites can be turned into a horse that flies at you intending to do real damage through repeated aggressive (but obviously failed) attempts at punishment. That is the risk you take if you decide to pursue the retributive punishment route, come what may.

If the behaviour has already developed into "full-on attack without warning", for whatever reason, there is indeed no quick fix. Non-aggressive punishment is okay to nip minor misbehaviour in the bud - i.e. it works - nothing to do with "leadership", or even dominance. In my experience, fighting aggression with aggression - even though it may seem entirely justified in our eyes because of what the horse has done to us (it hurts!) - is a recipe for disaster. While I have seen examples where it has (luckily) worked, I've also seen things go downhill often enough to be convinced it's not a strategy I would use myself or recommend to others.
 
Hi OP,

where are you based? I know several equine behaviour specialists in all corners of the country whom I can contact personally to help you out.

Aggression to this is extent is a serious issue. I think that hitting can only make it worse, when a horse is really p*ssed or psychologically damaged, they will enter their defence mode. I knew someone who really walloped her ex-abused pony for kicking her, she really belted him. Sadly she ended up spending three weeks in ICU and seriously hurt. She was okay, but the pony was not a child's pony. What she should of done was sold him to someone with no children around and patient and kind and experienced.

My advice would be to see a equine consultant, a lot of my friends are highly qualified and deal with horses like this; they use positive reinforcement methods to help their horses and their advice and work helped me wean aggression out of my youngster; and obviously a vet, farrier, dentist, get every nook and cranny looked into.

Some of the responses have shocked me, but I understand some people have horses as 'things' and donlt have them for reasons of love and affection (''shoot it and it will end up in dog food'').
Problems like this start with poor human handling and attitudes, if their problems go ignored and then treated llike machines which are there for egotistical purposes. Who think anything which isn't desired should be treated with a smack and cover up issues, now we end up here.

OP, I htope you get it sorted, I can empathise tremendously and will PM you my advice and how I solved it, because I'm sure I'll get deemed a bunny hugger, for dealing with aggression without hitting or laying a finger on my pony!

X
 
Dragonslayer gave the best advice on the thread - get someone out to look at it for themselves. As I understand it no one on here (other than of course you OP) has actually seen this horse, and with the best will in the world, without seeing the situation in person I don't see how anyone can give truly sound advice on how to handle a situation that could have any number of causes.
 
lassiesuca said:
Some of the responses have shocked me, but I understand some people have horses as 'things' and donlt have them for reasons of love and affection (''shoot it and it will end up in dog food'').

X
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I do love my pony, very much, thanks, but if he ever attacked me, I'm pretty sure that my feelings for him would change.

I would have no affection for a human if they were aggressive and violent towards me, why should I feel any different about animals?

I wouldn't keep a nasty animal of any kind, just the same as I wouldn't allow a nasty person to be part of my life.
 
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Its very difficult to offer any real advice without seeing the pony and because it is new to your family and has been so aggressive and unpredictable, having the heart to try and correct the behaviour maybe asking too much.
Was it bottle fed by any chance ? Has it grown up in the company of a herd ? I am suspicious of the orginal owners who seemed so keen to get rid of it. Something must have gone wrong during this time. If the dealer had owned her for just 3 weeks having come to him in good condition, would she have deteriorated so quickly, or were there signs that she had been in poor condition over a long period of time ?

Ideally,if it were possible, I'd say chuck her out with a few sensible babysitter mares who can teach her how to behave. Have one handler with a quiet, calm, no nonsense approach to handle her and establish a routine. I think at the moment you and your family are too emotionally involved to be able to deal with her dispassionately. Aggressive behaviour needs to be met with calmness and decisive but fair correction. Discipline is fine but adrenaline levels need to be low. I don't think its your fault, you've just been unlucky in being landed with a damaged youngster.
I was interested to hear that the dentist has had no problems with her, which makes me think that there is hope for her if the right environment and trainer/owner could be found.

I certainly echo the opinion that this pony isn't safe to be around young children right now. Whatever your sister decides with the resources available to her, I wish her well and hope no one gets hurt while you're all trying to find a solution.
 
Sorry to say it, I'd not be too impressed that she kept on coming at me and is getting worse. I'd give it a chance and have the vet out to investigate but TBH there are too many really nice ponies out there needing a loving home; I'd not be adverse to going down the PTS route in a persistently and increasingly aggressive childs pony of this age. What the heck would happen if a is child is attacked, or a member of the public is. Eeeek :eek:
 
I have a pony who bites and will attack in the field and the only solution with him is to deal with the situation, he will never change. He's in his 20's and I know his history which is one of constantly changing yards and people thinking they could sort out his behaviour. He was gifted to us 4 years ago because he was so aggressive and I took him on as he is also a brilliant competion pony and still is. We have never hit him, it simply wouldn't help and have just learnt to do things his way. No one goes into his stable if he is loose, on the whole he lives out and is fine to catch if you have a carrot to distract him and he has a headcollar on and only handle him if he is tied up short. After a rocky start my daughter loves him, as do we all although he is really not interested in any affection.
Saying that I wouldn't put up with him if he wasn't brilliant to ride, and I wouldn't ever part with him, despite him being badly outgrown unless it was to a family who had there own land and had the experience to deal with him and the understanding that he won't change.
 
I did read through all the posts, I am the side of posters such as foxhunter who made the most sense but on reading the OP's posts, it looks like the behaviour has gone beyond the "I am trying my luck here". Yes I do agree, rule out physical reasons first, but I would look at getting in professionial help to assess and treat. I do, however, appreciate this all costs money and if you are not in a position to pay for the vet tests and training, then I would look at the PTS option.

There was, a long time ago, a pony at the DIY yard I was in. This pony was the most laid back and kind pony - until she came into season. She then became so agressive that the children were not allowed anywhere near her. I have to admit I didn't take it too seriously (she was always such a sweetie) till I was roped into help catch her and found myself facing a highly irate 13.2 who really did mean to hurt me. In this instance, vets tests found it was problems with her seasons that caused her to change character so dramatically but it taught me a massive lesson - and that was not to under estimate a horse in serious attack mode. She is also, in god knows how many years, the only horse I have ever seen exhibit this behaviour.

On another note, as you have traced the original owners, you could tell them that you are seriously considering having this horse PTS unless they would like her back?
 
Thanks all for the further replies. Sister has been away for the weekend so iv not had chance really to have a good long chat to her, tho i have a feeling she will be unwilling (not unable) to fund any veterinary or professional advisor to investigate/help before making a final decision. i think she just wants rid, which i can kind of understand cos she has 4 young kids to consider

If i had the money id pay for it, because i want to be as sure as i can be that there's nothing that cant be fixed. Maybe im being stupid about that, but selling her on without investigation is, to me, irresponsible because as one poster said, people could underestimate the issue and she could go on to hurt someone more seriously. And having her PTS, altho id prefer that to her being passed around, is ofc final.

She was different again yesterday & today. I went to put haynets out this morning and she came over hoping to get a mouthful as i was going thro the gate. i had my water bottle ready and just shooed her away till the nets were tied and i was ready to let her approach. She put her ears back as she walked off but she didnt try to come anywhere near me. Later when i went to poo pick she moved off when i shooed her. When i put Alfie, our mini Shetland, in the field she didnt chase him, she didnt even look at him. He's only been here a couple of weeks but even so she's always had a go at him when he first goes in. (he's kept seperate from her at night and in the field has plenty of escape routes that she cant fit thro, including a divided off section of field shelter with a mini sized entrance) Not that im gonna relax my guard around her tho

i look at her and wonder whats going on in her head. If shes as confused as i am. On Saturday if id had a gun id have shot her myself. Today i looked at her grazing peacefully with Alfie, looking beautiful in her summer coat, and was hoping sister will give her a chance. Maybe it's just my pigheadedness, i hate to be defeated. But i have to accept whatever my sister decides
Hopefully i will be able to have a proper talk with sister if she comes down tomorrow. To the person that asked, im in Doncaster
 
Horrible situation for you to be in. Best of luck. I'm in the camp that thinks there could well be some physical reason why she is behaving like this.
 
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