Pony changing behaviour during winter

[Brummyrat]

Im reaching out to the collective minds of HHO on behalf of a friend who isn’t a member, I saw her yesterday and suggested I ask on here.
She has a lovely little 12 year old Sec A for her daughter, this is their second winter of having her. She was told by previous owners she has EMS which is manageable, she also came back as “borderline” at a recent cushings check. So she is mindful of what she feeds her and where and how long she goes out for.
The issue is that during the winter she becomes very spooky, to the point that her young daughter is nervous of riding her. Last winter they put it down to the yard they were at but they since moved to a lovely yard with a nice enclosed menage and she’s been riding off the lead-rein all summer, pony has been good as gold, really knows her job. Now we’re in winter the welsh dragon has returned, she drops her shoulder, whips round, generally becomes too sharp for her daughter to ride even on the leadrein.

Obviously the first thought is that during winter we tend to do less and our horses more forage to keep warm which can cause problems but the only change to her management is that, on vets advice, she has a bit of dry hay mixed in with her Timothy haylage as soaking nets in freezing temperatures the vet feels would be more of a colic risk. Everything else is the same, she goes out on a fairly bare paddock for the morning, is never without something to munch on so its not tummy ache, has a small handful of lite chaff twice a day, all the checks have been done to rule out anything physical. It seems to be something that manifests in winter. Anyone come across this before?

 

[laura_nash]

Does she only go out for the morning in summer too? If not, that would seem to be the obvious change.

Vitamin E deficiency can be a cause of odd "only in winter" behaviour if the management is genuinely very similar otherwise (due to lack of it in the winter grass). Presumably though the pony gets little of that in summer too if she is EMS and Cushings.

Is she clipped?

 

[HeyMich]

Vit E or magnesuim. Try supplements (not both at the same time!) and see if either of them help.

 

[Brummyrat]

Thank you both, yes the turn out is at the same time but in summer she’s on a bare square of nothing really as she can get a bit footy if she even has a small amount of grass, she has a teeny bib clip and is the same when she’s been out naked or had a sheet on...think my friend is trying everything! Interesting about the deficiencies though, i’ll pass that on, thank you

 

[Brummyrat]

She also has a muzzle on in the summer so wouldnt be eating a huge amount of grass, but it could be a factor

 

[JackFrost]

Does it make any difference if pony is rugged up warm? A similar pony I had felt the cold very badly, which is a known Cushings issue, and recently temperatures have dropped a lot. I'd be inclined to re-test for Cushings, just to establish if going on a low dose of prascend might be worth a try - the condition seems to present with a lot of general metabolic and discomfort issues, and the tests can produce varying results. (and I'd try the vit e too)

 

[claracanter]

I have a horse with Cushings and he has also been tested for EMS but was negative He is a very good doer and barely has any hard feed in winter. He is always harder to ride in winter, much more spooky. We just accept that he’sIke that way and haven’t been able to come up with an explanation

 

[SEL]

My PSSM mare is vile in winter unless she's rugged up to the eyeballs - I've suggested a warmer rug to quite a few people now and it's helped. I wonder sometimes whether letting them be a bit cold to keep their weight down means even non PSSM horses tense their muscles and life is just more uncomfortable - especially with a rider on board. I tense up when I'm cold and although I get why we look at wild horses and the advantages of weight loss in winter, they aren't being asked to carry a rider and trot in circles

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Does the pony have the chaff in summer too?
If it's winter only, I wouldcheckthe ingredients of the chaff and if it contains alfalfa, stop it at once. Lots of equines react badly to alfalfa, this pony could be one of them.

 

[Auslander]

Is she on grass in winter? The temps have been fairly high for the time of year, and my grass was still growing last time I looked - several of mine are a bit loopy at the moment, and I'm pretty sure it's because the grass is sugary

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Both of mine are more spooky and fresh in winter I think a lot of horses are generally, could a quick lunge before riding maybe help sometimes even 10 minutes can help.

 

[Widgeon]

My PSSM mare is vile in winter unless she's rugged up to the eyeballs - I've suggested a warmer rug to quite a few people now and it's helped. I wonder sometimes whether letting them be a bit cold to keep their weight down means even non PSSM horses tense their muscles and life is just more uncomfortable - especially with a rider on board. I tense up when I'm cold and although I get why we look at wild horses and the advantages of weight loss in winter, they aren't being asked to carry a rider and trot in circles

Really interesting that you say this because I had begun to suspect the same thing - my cob (who I have no reason to believe has PSSM) is more spooky and daft when it's really cold, particularly if he's a little bit chilly. It's a hard balance because he needs to lose weight, plus I wouldn't want him to overheat when the sun does come out. So we stick with a 100g rug and loads of forage, which seems to work *almost* all the time.

 

[Brummyrat]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply, Ive sent your comments over to her and she's extremely grateful. After doing some research into Vit E she has ordered some today as it makes a lot of sense to her. Pony's day to day routine really doesn't change all year round with the exception of the addition of a muzzle in summer. She has a handful of chaff all the year round, the only difference to her hay intake is that its soaked in summer. She also had the thickest welsh coat so we don't feel its that she's cold but when I saw her Sunday she'd popped a rug on just in case. So trying a bit of everything.

The Vitamin E deficiency does ring a few bells though so she's trying that first and if it works I'll let you know.

 

[JackFrost]

She also had the thickest welsh coat so we don't feel its that she's cold but when I saw her Sunday she'd popped a rug on just in case.

A thick coat is a classic sign of Cushings . Horses grow a thick coat because they are cold, to protect themselves. To my mind, a thin coat might indicate that it isn't cold-related, not a thick coat.

 

[Brummyrat]

I know what you're saying, it isn't "that" kind of coat, its just winter fluff, meaning I doubt she'd be feeling the cold. She goes out in a small sectioned off paddock that has loads of natural shelter and is adjacent the yard so she's not out in the elements.

 

[PurBee]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply, Ive sent your comments over to her and she's extremely grateful. After doing some research into Vit E she has ordered some today as it makes a lot of sense to her. Pony's day to day routine really doesn't change all year round with the exception of the addition of a muzzle in summer. She has a handful of chaff all the year round, the only difference to her hay intake is that its soaked in summer. She also had the thickest welsh coat so we don't feel its that she's cold but when I saw her Sunday she'd popped a rug on just in case. So trying a bit of everything.

The Vitamin E deficiency does ring a few bells though so she's trying that first and if it works I'll let you know.

I gather from your first post the pony is on timothy haylage mainly, and a wee bit of chaff? No grass at all, in winter, but muzzled grass in summer?
So there’s no mineral balancer being given In winter?

Despite pony on limited summer grass, she’ll be getting omega 3, vit e, a etc -essential nutrients that are drastically limited in any saved forage, hay or haylage.

I doubt its the small amount of hay causing spookiness - unless the hay is ryegrass or mouldy/musty.

I would suggest giving an all round vitamin/mineral balancer - forage plus do great quality ones / progressive earth are another great quality one / equimins advanced complete multi vit/mineral mix is excellent quality and contains b vitamins.

B vitamins are great for maintaining nervous system, so can help spooky horses.

A note about timothy haylage - i use this too but i also mix in finer ryegrass haylage, and some hay. The timothy haylage grown on large farms (marksway) tends to be very tall timothy, and its very stemmy forage. Horses require fibre of course, yet too much indigestible cellulose stemmy fibre can cause gut distress. Just something for your friend to consider.

How are the ponies poops? Solid?

My 2 get looser stools on timothy haylage if their ration of timothy is majority of their daily forage needs.

devon haylage do timothy/ryegrass mix haylage which is the best made haylage ive ever used. Mine did great on it. So perhaps try a switch to include softer haylage alongside the timothy.

 

[PurBee]

Actually , for a pssm pony on very limited grass, id feed a multi min/vit balancer all year round - just a lesser dose in the summer to off-set the amount of grass consumed.