Pony falling over in horsebox.Help,ideas please

Spottyappy

Spottyappy

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We took our pony out yesterday with our horse for hack,using our herringbone horebox,7.5t, to transport. She always loads at home but can be difficult when loading to come back.She loaded fine at home,both were slightly sweated up when we arrived at destination,which we put down to exceptionally mild weather and winter coats. Had lovely hack. At the end, washed them both down,tied up outside with hay while we had sandwiches. Pony loaded easier than most times.Horse goes on after. Drove off,but within 30 seconds heard most awful scrabbling noise. Stopped and both equines were stood up,fine. Left daughter with grooms door open and moved off again. Within seconds,she screamed at me to stop as pony was laying down and scrabbling. She couldn't actually lay down as the trailer tie wouldn't let her.I went and looked,besides blood from a cut,it appeared she couldn't take weight on her off hind.
Called vet.He thought she may have slipped her stifle. After running her up,she appeared sound, and sedating to staple cut,loaded her but again she started to fall over when put in herringbone with head to left. We had to travel facing wrong way and untied.She shook the whole way home,but wasnt sweaty and didn' t collapse/ fall. Partitions are full,solid to floor. Floor has mats.
Any help or ideas would be much appreciated as I have never had anything like this happen and am at total loss to understand why she would suddenly fall/ lay. Although sometimes reluctant to load away from home,she always travelled quietly. She was level behind today,slightly unlevel on stapled front leg.
Hope you manage to read and understand my essay!
 
Can't help but do sympathise and would be interested to hear some opinions as my friends horse who has loaded and travelled like a lamb for many years she has had him including a busy eventing career has suddenly become very unsteady travelling. He throws himself sideways against the partition so he is diagonal with his shoulders touching one side and his feet the opposite side of the stall. He doesn't sweat or seem upset and still loads fine. She has been doing some very short journeys trying the partitition at a greater angle with haunches further to the rear to try to find a position he is comfortable with. Its very frightening seeing them like that.
 
My horse does this if she travels on the right hand side of the trailer but travels like a pro on the left hand side.

A friends horse recently started to do this too, haven't yet tried her on the other side - we were just pleased to get home in one piece.

If you google this problem you will find it is not unusual and there doesn't seem to be a 'definite' reason or solution. There was an article in Your Horse earlier this year which linked it to 'teenage' horses - so potentially age related.
 
Dont want to worry you but a friends horse did this, and it was discovered she had a severe back problem (cant remember exactly what it was but it involved the vertebrae fusing) and had to be retired.
I've only really known of horses that couldnt travel in trailers, never heard of horses that couldnt travel in lorries!
 
i had a very interesting ride in the back of a 3 1/2 ton lorry with a sedated horse once and it opened my eyes to travelling horses. my friend was a very experienced driver and had towed and driven lorries for many years ,IT WAS TERRIBLE!!! i know people whos horses were brilliant travellers and all of a sudden they stopped loading or threw themselves to the floor. im afraid everyone should ride in the back when you travel to really appreciate how bad it is. im really sorry people but this is a driving issue -your horses are trying very hard to tell you something!!!:)
 
Am definately not the worlds worst driver,thank you! Over 30 yrs driving and not one point! And,unless you are older than myself, even longer experience of horses, archiepoo.
I am very cautious to point of crawling at junctions and roundabouts even though lorry is stable,unlike some. And,if I were that terrible, why would other horse(s) load/ travel without complication... feel free to take a test drive with me archiepoo.
I have travelled in the back of both lorries and trailers,so am fully aware of what it is like and that includes the much louder noise than you experience as a driver.
Interesting, samlf, thx about back. An avenue to explore. Anything constructive appreciated.
 
Archiepoo in no way is this a driving issue - what an assumption! He has been driven by the same person in the same box for years and only now has started to have problems. My horse travels brilliantly with the same person. The first time it happened they managed to get to the show and he won both his Novice tests and has no obvious physical issues and has a physio regularly. I wonder though if it might be a neurological issue? as he did get cast a few times over the summer as kept rolling as developed some sort of sweet itch to his nether regions. He could have damaged a nerve somewhere which might make him less coordinated although it doesn't show in his work.
 
I would suggest you need to give your pony much more room and give her an opportunity to find out how she wants to stand and balance herself?

If you can, for a tiny tiny slow journey, try taking the partition out and see how she stands.

Horses don't use partitions for support, they are only to separate horses - horses never lean on anything, they like to spread their feet and balance on their feet. The fact the partitions come down to the floor doesn't help!

The fact that the horse has been difficult to load suggests to me that it hasn't been that happy about travelling for a while, but has managed until this time, maybe the pony was particularly tired.

Please try - it took me years to understand why my horse was a bad loader, it was only when I got CCTV that I understood her problem was really in the travelling and was able to solve it!!
 
Thx canteron. We can take partitions out.However, long term could be an issue as I usually travel 2 and sometimes 3,but worth trying to see if she favours a certain way. Can also crawl round field or short trips locally fr as long as it takes to get her confidence/ balance.
She has a known past of sitting in field for almost 9 yrs of her life, doing nowt so going out in box is a relatively new experience,but we have never quite understood why she will self load at home,but not when away. Again,though,leading me to wonder why she does that,as usually if a horse wont load,it wont load where ever it is! She has always previously travelled well once in. And, thats the same whether she is travelling alone or with others. Eats hay while travelling and unloads calmly.
Have emailed Mctimoney practitioner to contact me about looking at her back so could either treat or discount accordingly.
 
A mare I used to own had this problem, made worse if had partitions that were solid to the floor as she couldnt spread her weight out to balance! Found the only way to travel her was to give the full trailer or extra room on a wagon. If she couldnt spread her legs out because of the partition she would fall over, if the partition wasnt to the floor but not enough room she would kick the box to bits in a panic. Never had a problem once we gave her lots of room. Maybe spend time taking her out without the partition then start introducing it on very short trips (round the block) once she has found her balance and see how you go. :D
 
HAve the chiro check her over - sometimes if they have a back injury they cannot stand up well in the truck.

Also put a deep bed of straw on the floor of the truck and tie her loose enough that if she does go down she can get her head down too.

Also try travelling her loose in a double bay so that she can turn herself around to travel the way she prefers.
 
Agree with canteron!

Herringbone should NOT have to floor partitions! They should be 3/4 length. Herringbone in design should be 45 degree's bottom at drivers side and the horses legs need to be able to spread, hence the 3/4 flap and the need to boot up the horses.

I do agree to widen the partitions in this case and get some cctv to see what is causing the problem!

I have seen many ponies decide that 'today is the day' and after many years of travelling fine decide to have a wobble for sometimes absolutely no workable reason known to man!

Let them be loose and do a few journeys like this so the pony relearns that it does not need to throw itself to the floor.

Good luck!
 
i appreciate what your saying sussexbythe sea and yes you are slightly older than me - but im telling you my experience i work with rehabillatating horses and have re schooled many with travelling issues and its Almost always a loss of confidence due to poor driving, you may think you are the best driver in the world and go every where at an snails pace -but if your horse has developed travelling issues -its not rocket science sorry!:rolleyes:
 
I have a very large ISH who cannot travel in the slot nearest the living and groom's door. I also think it is because he cannot spread his legs. He has been known to fall over at 5mph, on the flat :eek: As a result, we always travel him in the centre slot, with 3/4 partitions, and have no problems. He managed a 12 hr trip abroad with no problems, and I don't have to drive like a vicar's wife ;) (apologies to vicars' wives!)
 
Hi all

I was interested i this post cos I used to have a trailer-scrabbler too and ended up researching it a lot (though I don't think it's the same issue as trailer scrabblers usually 'fall over' going round bends in a trailer but travel OK in a lorry). Agree with everyone that it's not a driving issue because it doesn't go away no matter what you do or how slowly you drive.

With the trailer scrabblers the answer always seems to be to give them more room - either no partition or at v least having rubber partitions (loose) from half way down. Is there any way you could try this in the lorry?

good luck :-s
 
Something else I've always wanted to try - do let me know if anyone actually can try this with one of those horses - when I went in to watch the little arab i had doing this, it seemed that it was the feel of the right hand wall against him that was making him collapse his weight. I don't know how easy they'd be to get hold of, but it reminded me of the monty roberts thick blanket things that he uses for TBs who hate the feel of the starting stall, which I believe is a similar problem. He designed some sort of carpet type rug to stop them feeling it against their sides. If anyone has one and can try on a trailer/lorry scrabbler let me know how it goes, i've always wondered if it would help!
 
My 17 year old pony mare has always travelled perfectly but one day I was travelling her herringbone and she kept collapsing, sound similar to yours. She had no physical problem but would lean on the partition and fall down, she wasn't stressed or anything. It was really scary as I have had her for 10 years and travelled a lot in boxes and trailers perfectly. The next trip we did she did the same. Someone suggested taking the partitions out would help and it did! She now travells fine in any transport if there is enough space for her to balance. I have ctv in the box and she still stands over to one side but doesn't lean. I found using a 3.5t facing backwards really got her confidence up. I hope this helps!
 
Thx for the constructive comments peeps.
Pony having wk off,back lady coming too. Partitions are solid wood,to floor yes. When we first travelled her herringbone,we'd given her more space but she didnt seem overly happy so we reduced area,and up to now she had travelled much better. I previously had cracking rear facing box,but legally couldn't take 2 never mind 3 so had to change. She had travelled well in that,although was still not keen on loading away from home.
Will widen her area and charge cameras to see if anything happens to help her once that done,after back checked.
Archiepoo,I suggest you widen your narrow mind and actually read what people are saying on here. THIS IS NOT ABOUT PEOPLES' DRIVING ABILITIES. IT IS ABOUT IDEAS TO HELP WITH A PROBLEM I EXPERIENCED AND WITH IN EXCESS OF 40 YRS WITH HORSES PROFESSIONALLY AND NOW AS HOBBY,I HAVE NOT EVER ENCOUNTERED THIS KIND OF REACTION.NOR IT SEEMS HAVE SOME OTHERS,WHILE OTHERS HAVE OFFERED HELPFUL SUGGESTIONS TO TRY AND PREVENT IT RECURRING. AS I SAID,YOU ARE WELCOME TO SIT IN BACK OF MY BOX ANYTIME TO JUDGE HOW GOOD,BAD OR INDIFFERENT MY DRIVING MAY OR MAY NOT BE,BUT UNLESS YOU CAN COME UP WITH PRACTICAL IDEAS,PLEASE DON' T BOTHER POSTING AGAIN.THX.

Horses are not human,and do not think,act or react like human beings.
 
INcidentally,Mrgan 123,it was also the right side that she couldn't seem to stand up on. So,thanks may well be worth thinking laterally about a fake type wall... and,was also in partition with full height separating piving from horse area on the right side.
Don't they like to keep us on our toes,as well as broke with vets bills!
 
Yes so weird isn't it, it seemed it was often the right hand wall being against them that the problem was caused but most of the ones i heard about were fine on left hand bends, really interesting. Would be great to know what goes on in thier minds. Good luck!
 
Horses tend to lean away from the direction of travel when the brakes are applied, unlike humans, who continue in the direction of travel. I have found, with several cases now, that if the partitions are too far apart, the horse will be prone to scrabbling.
 
Hi! How did you get on? My 15 yo mare suddenly seemed unable to stand up in trailer and lorry on Sunday, was so scary! She fell over even when stationary, although partitions kept her up. Had to get the vet out, and she was sedated 3 times in order for us to be able to get her home. Mare has travelled since a foal, all over the country, never had a problem. Vet said to leave it a month or so, then I'm going to try without a partition and plus lots of bedding. If all goes well I'll take it incredibly slowly driving round the yard etc. This thread has helped me feel much more positive. Next year was going to be our last season eventing and I was rather gutted that retirement might be forced on us a year early if I could no longer travel her.
 
In the case of my friends horse the physio found some issues with his neck that made it difficult for him to balance. I can't remember the detail now. He did improve travelling after treatment but she also down-sized to a 3.5t box that i think is forward facing rather than herring-bone and he travels well again. He does have to have regular physio though otherwise he generally locks up. He's 20yrs old now though.
 
IME when a previously good to travel horse suddenly gets bad and you can't find an issue with the wagon the reason is almost always pain .
I have had this recently one of mine was reluctant to load and then traveled badly , turned out a dental had hurt the muscles and joints in his face and that was causing the bad travelling sorted that and he went back to normal .
He was stoic when working and just showed it travelling .
 
This happened to us 3 years ago, we had travelled pony alone on right side of trailer with no problem whatsoever, we then took a friend's bigger pony to a show so we travelled him on the right & our pony on the left. Never heard such a commotion which at first we put down to close proximity of other horse. However, after speaking to previous owner it turned out she cannot balance herself when travelling on the left hand side. Since this incident I would never tow without my camera so I can see exactly what is going on & agree with previous advice to definitely get checked by physio. Pretty damn terrifying isn't it.
 
Agree it's probably a space thing but one thing that might be worth checking is tyre pressures. I don't know it if applies to lorries as I've never driven one, but I know straight away if there's a problem with my tyre pressures on my trailer as M tells me! The traveller from whom you never hear a peep is scrabbling and jumping about non-stop.

Weirdly, A - who has to travel on the left so is much more an issue normally seems unaffected by tyre pressures!
 
I have a pony who always loaded and travelled excellently, then one day she started throwing herself against the partition and scrambling up the walls (in ifor Williams trailer) we took partitions out and have since travelled her with just front half so she can place her weight wider, we now use a chain system for travelling two.

I have since heard of many people with this problem finding arthritis in the hocks, we never had my mare tested as we worked around it but we suspect due to changes in her at a similar time this was setting in, she still works and we manage her like any other older arthritic horse. Also we found she was and still can unbalance on left hand bends.

May be worth looking into this or as others have said give them more room and see what happens.
 
Ive had this with two, both 14 years old approx when it started. The mare started stumbling/scrabbling round right hand bends in a trailer and gradually worsened over a year or so until she went down. Never had an issue in a wagon facing sideways, but we did have decent partition widths, she was never hemmed in. The gelding started throwing himself against the partition and scrabbling in the wagon, only on the way home to start with, and never when on the back of the wagon- which has the widest partition. The only time that we have travelled him in a trailer recently he travelled fine on the way there and panicked and demolished the partition as soon as the ramp was up to come home. Still travels happily on the last slot in the wagon, apart from throwing himself up the ramp in case we forget to load him when he's last one loaded ��. Interestingly, when he panics away from home (section D and mildly loopy,) he legs it up the ramp and into the box... Ridden or not. He sees it as his safe place when he worries.
 
Get the floor on your truck thoroughly checked from above and below as horse may be detecting a problem. Also get tyre pressure checked.
Widen partitions as above and make sure bottom third is rubber skirted rather than solid.
Get horse thoroughly checked out especially ears, back and legs.
 
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