Pony has lost confidence

[Petmurf]

Hello, I have a 6 yr old Cob, he’s my first horse and I’m still quite a novice rider but my confidence is building all the time but now my pony seems to have lost his.

we moved to a new yard at the beginning of October and he settled in really well and we both love it there, great owner and liveries.
we have been going out on hacks with the other liveries and Tommy has been great but this week he’s started napping before we even leave the yard, yesterday I was going out on our own and couldn’t get him to leave the yard, he kept napping and trying to get to the gate to his turnout field so I got off, pulled up the stirrups and we went on an inhand walk off the yard and he was fine, got back and rode him in the arena for a little while and he napped again there.

Today, we went out with another livery and got off the yard and onto the road and he seemed fine, got to a field that he sometimes goes into during turnout, the gate was open and in he went, I couldn’t stop him so again I got off and we walked the entire route we were going to walk with the other livery riding, on the way back, Tommy and I headed for home and the other one turned and went a different way so it was just us walking up the hills home and again he was fine. when we were walking with the other livery, I purposely walked ahead and at one point he stopped, planted and was looking for the other horse, once he saw her behind he was fine again and carried on walking so it really is a confidence thing with him. Nothing has happened on any of our previous hacks to make him nervou.

He has a new saddle fitted, had a Vet health check and physio check and massage last week and all good there.

so how do I build up his confidence again? Only Walking in hand for while?

Any advice would be very much appreciated as I hate seeing him like this.

 

[Wishfilly]

Have his teeth been checked? Just because you mention other health checks, but not this!

Has his management changed in any way?

Are you sure it is a lack of confidence? 6yo can be a bit of a teenager age when they try to push boundaries? In which case, building confidence isn't the right response and you may need to find an experienced rider to ride him through this.

What does he do when napping?

 

[Callieann]

Try seeing where he wants to be and then work him in that spot, just keep going round in small circles. When he feels like he wants to go some where else allow him to go and then let him rest. Rinse and repeat. I had the same thing with one of mine and I just kept working her in the place she wanted to be and resting where she didn't want to be. I gradually ended up further and further away from yard.

 

[Petmurf]

He had his teeth done in May.

His management hasn’t changed either.

I know he could be pushing boundaries as he’s tried everything in the 6 months I’ve had him to get out of working and we‘ve worked through catching him from the field, not wanting to be tacked up, swinging him bum round at the mounting block etc...he’s tried it all on so I suppose this could be another tactic to get out of working?

He spins and spins and pulls towards the gate to his field or in the arena he pulls towards the gate or the fence, sticks his head over and plants. Yesterday we could tell he did contemplate jumping a small wall with me on him to stop going off the yard but luckily he thought better of it ?

I tried turning him in circles but then he just pulls another way.

we‘ve been doing Natural Horsemanship lessons which have improved his ground manners and doing groundwork exercises to build up his core and he’s great doing all that and we do have a really good bond but I just don’t know what to do next?

I do have an really good RI that has ridden him out a few times but then lockdown #2 happened but maybe I could get her to start that back up again next week....Would that help do you think?

 

[Wishfilly]

He had his teeth done in May.

His management hasn’t changed either.

I know he could be pushing boundaries as he’s tried everything in the 6 months I’ve had him to get out of working and we‘ve worked through catching him from the field, not wanting to be tacked up, swinging him bum round at the mounting block etc...he’s tried it all on so I suppose this could be another tactic to get out of working?

He spins and spins and pulls towards the gate to his field or in the arena he pulls towards the gate or the fence, sticks his head over and plants. Yesterday we could tell he did contemplate jumping a small wall with me on him to stop going off the yard but luckily he thought better of it ?

I tried turning him in circles but then he just pulls another way.

we‘ve been doing Natural Horsemanship lessons which have improved his ground manners and doing groundwork exercises to build up his core and he’s great doing all that and we do have a really good bond but I just don’t know what to do next?

I do have an really good RI that has ridden him out a few times but then lockdown #2 happened but maybe I could get her to start that back up again next week....Would that help do you think?

If you don't feel confident to ride him through it (no judgement, I don't think I would either), then I think getting the RI to try would be a good idea. She will probably be able to give you a good idea as to where to go with next steps if nothing else.

 

[Petmurf]

Yes I agree, I am a novice rider and even though my confidence is improving and I can ride him through it in the arena but on the road is a different story, I’ve just messaged her to ask if she can start back up again next week.

Thank you for your advice

 

[Wishfilly]

Yes I agree, I am a novice rider and even though my confidence is improving and I can ride him through it in the arena but on the road is a different story, I’ve just messaged her to ask if she can start back up again next week.

Thank you for your advice

No worries, I hope she is able to help!

 

[Winters100]

It doesn't sound to me as if pony has lost confidence, more like he is trying it on and seeing if he can be the boss. Your instructor knows you and the horse, so will be able to advise you how to best handle it, but you need to remember that a 6 year old is still a child, and hence will be less predictable than an older 'made' horse. You need to be careful not to teach him that bad behaviour gets rewards, but more importantly you need to be safe, so you will probably need a lot of input from a trainer. To be honest a 6 year old would not be my choice for a novice first owner, you will have some challenges, so do try to keep your confidence and your sense of enjoyment. If you get to a point where it is no longer fun you may need to re-think, because a 6 year old still needs to be educated, and it is hard for a novice rider to teach a young horse. You will most likely need to pay someone to school him for you, which of course is expensive, because in my experience it only works well if they ride the horse at least 5 or 6 times a week, but the upside is that you may well end up with your perfect partner - I do hope so. Good luck and let us know how you get on.

 

[shamrock2021]

Sounds more like he is trying to boss you around

 

[Gloi]

You need to be stronger willed than he is. Hopefully your instructor can help you with this.

 

[Petmurf]

It doesn't sound to me as if pony has lost confidence, more like he is trying it on and seeing if he can be the boss. Your instructor knows you and the horse, so will be able to advise you how to best handle it, but you need to remember that a 6 year old is still a child, and hence will be less predictable than an older 'made' horse. You need to be careful not to teach him that bad behaviour gets rewards, but more importantly you need to be safe, so you will probably need a lot of input from a trainer. To be honest a 6 year old would not be my choice for a novice first owner, you will have some challenges, so do try to keep your confidence and your sense of enjoyment. If you get to a point where it is no longer fun you may need to re-think, because a 6 year old still needs to be educated, and it is hard for a novice rider to teach a young horse. You will most likely need to pay someone to school him for you, which of course is expensive, because in my experience it only works well if they ride the horse at least 5 or 6 times a week, but the upside is that you may well end up with your perfect partner - I do hope so. Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Yes I know he’s young but he’s very gentle and was a driving pony owned by travellers before I bought him so out on the roads he’s perfect.
I spend a lot of time (and money) on lessons, both groundwork and riding to help us become the perfect partners and we’ll get there one baby step at a time. He’s a completely different pony already from 6 months ago so I’m doing something right. Every evening during the week we do something, schooling,groundwork, Natural Horsemanship or just a pamper evening under the solarium and weekends we hack out with the other liveries which, until this weekend, he’s been perfect.

Yesterday and today I showed him that bad behaviour doesn’t mean he gets to go back home so I walked him out in hand, doing the exact route that we had planned to do so either way he still had to leave the yard and work, his behaviour is not acceptable and I won’t let him get away with it.
When I say I’m a novice I mean that really I’m a happy hacker, I’ve had lessons on and off for over 40 years and have been having them again weekly for over a year so my riding is fine, it’s the behavioural aspects that I’m a novice about as have always ridden riding school horses but I have a great RI, YO and wonderful liveries who support and help me along the way.

 

[Winters100]

Ahh, you don't sound so novice then This is good as someone very novice with a 6 year old was a bit worrying! Sounds like you are doing great - good luck with him!

 

[Muddywellies]

Horses are herd animals. If you're not the leader, he will assume that role. You need to be the boss here or else you're in for some possibly tricky times. Hopefully your RI can assist.

 

[LEC]

This is a common scenario.

Cobs are super bright and very intelligent. They beat sporthorses hands down for sussing out a situation and winning every single time so it suits them. They move slow but think fast. Sport horses move fast but think slow. Cobs are also incredibly good at schooling and training their owners. I absolutely love watching it happen. Horse manipulates the owner just enough and trains them around their needs. You need to make sure in EVERY single situation where you handle that horse, is that actually the outcome I wanted or has the horse just trained me? That could be I wanted the horse to move his bum but actually i have just moved, not the horse.

The horse might have separation anxiety, you need to monitor the Heart rate for that. Easiest way is to to stand still and it will come pumping through. Also with their body language. They will give away little signs. Personally I would have zero expectation of even going on a hack for a week as you need to extend their comfort zone. You have moved this horse fairly recently and their coping mechanism for change has been to latch onto the herd.

Instead I would have zero expectations of anything and instead look and try to understand where your trouble spots are. I have one horse who will leave the gate of the yard but 2m away will nap. Probably as thats where the hedge starts and home disappears. How you deal with the napping depends on what they do.

If they spin you sit quietly and ask for them to face the right direction and do nothing more. When all calm I ask for one step forward. If they spin, exactly the same again.
If they are a planter, I look to move the shoulder or the hind leg to disengage and then ask for one step forwards. Repeat as necessary.
This is pretty much how I solve spooking with the two things above and going slowly. The horse has to understand that what you want is going to be ok.

The big issue I find a lot of people have is patience to solve it, not disciplined enough in their approach or not giving themselves enough time. Sometimes if that horse is not going to leave the gate all thoughts of the hack will just go from my mind and I will work just around the gate and solve the behaviour. I think we get very stuck on an idea of not leaving things till we solve a problem but horses don't work that way and sometimes just starting on the problem is enough.

One of your issues is getting off. The problem is by getting off and leading you are not solving your issue, you are just plastering over the issue. The horse being led won't have anxiety because he is following you. Are you always in front of the horse? or are you at his shoulder making him go slightly ahead? nuances but ones which make a big difference. You need to make the horse be slightly ahead of you and be strict about it. Stand at the shoulder and use a schooling whip to tap if needing some help being forwards. You can practice this at home round the yard safely. I expect my horses to lead off 3 different positions - slightly ahead with me at shoulder as if trotting them up, behind me and never to move into my personal space and on a lunge line with a good few metres gap and staying away from me and slightly ahead.

Personally, I have no issue with getting on and off but I would then be looking to get back on again when I felt we had gone past the issue. They kind of need to learn in a nice way and repetitive reinforcement works. I don't bother smacking napping horses its a waste of everyones energy and only makes the situation worse. I will have a schooling whip to help reinforce if needed because they have ignored the leg or I need them to move one leg but most of the time i rely on voice and leg. A lot of time I will sometimes wait it out as long as they are facing the right direction and standing still. I only correct if they are not.

 

[Petmurf]

Thank you LEC, that’s great advice.

had a long chat with my RI last night and she said that as soon as we moved yards he needed me as his comfort blanket so was well behaved as he was relying on me but now he’s settled he doesn’t need me and is not seeing me as the leader but whilst he was being well behaved, my confidence grew which he now feels so he’s upped his game with the napping.
I agree with the patience thing, I do try and sit it out and give him time to calm down, I also don’t smack as it’s a waste of time and doesn’t get us anywhere.

If the horse doesn’t want to leave the gate, how do I work on that? If I can get him to stop spinning and face the gate and maybe take one step forward, what else to I do after that? If I get off after he’s done that then isn’t that reinforcing the behaviour that if he naps he doesn’t have to go out or is the point to calm the napping, get him to face the right way, take one step forward ? Apologies for the questions.

Now lockdown#2 is ending my RI can come back and help me so we have 2 lessons booked in this week, it will take time and patience of which both I have so we’ll get there one baby step at a time.

 

[LEC]

Thank you LEC, that’s great advice.

had a long chat with my RI last night and she said that as soon as we moved yards he needed me as his comfort blanket so was well behaved as he was relying on me but now he’s settled he doesn’t need me and is not seeing me as the leader but whilst he was being well behaved, my confidence grew which he now feels so he’s upped his game with the napping.
I agree with the patience thing, I do try and sit it out and give him time to calm down, I also don’t smack as it’s a waste of time and doesn’t get us anywhere.

If the horse doesn’t want to leave the gate, how do I work on that? If I can get him to stop spinning and face the gate and maybe take one step forward, what else to I do after that? If I get off after he’s done that then isn’t that reinforcing the behaviour that if he naps he doesn’t have to go out or is the point to calm the napping, get him to face the right way, take one step forward ? Apologies for the questions.

Now lockdown#2 is ending my RI can come back and help me so we have 2 lessons booked in this week, it will take time and patience of which both I have so we’ll get there one baby step at a time.

Go the opposite direction to which way he spins. They ALWAYS have a side they favour. They will often then become argumentative about turning that way. Your aim is to keep asking in a nice way to turn that way. I might end up doing 2 or 3 circles that way if they become stuck. My question isnt then about which way are facing, its, you will turn the direction I want and not the way you want. If they become stuck in the circle, which they often will move the hind quarters and then the shoulder. Tap with the schooling whip to move the leg across. Once they are turning as they should be, your focus is then on the direction you want.

So your breakdown should be:

Step 1: Have they turned well the way I want to go - No - fix this first.
Step 2: Are they facing the direction I want and standing that direction - no fix this next.

Then ask for forwards if just one step and praise. You keep asking until they give it - kick, tap more to annoy with schooling whip, voice and cajole.

If they turn to face the wrong way go back to step 1 and then step 2. People will want to get involved on yard, they will think a whack will sort it and in some cases it might very well sort it out! but if you lack confidence and this horse is clever then their behaviour will escalate as they will try harder to avoid doing what they don't want to do. So hence its boring, its repetitive and the horse might get cross but their behaviour is not going to escalate seriously and you will build a better skill set when you realise what works and how it works.

Skills you can practice off the horse are making sure it can do cross overs behind on a circle

 

[Petmurf]

LEC, thank you so much for taking the time to respond with some great advice, I’ll start doing this next time he naps which could well be tonight lol I’m going to ride him in the arena for a while so I can get to grips with the napping in a safe environment and once I’ve learnt the skills needed I’ll try again with leaving the yard.