Pony napping leaving field

[smolmaus]

Sadie has gotten very attached to her friends now they're on grass and is planting rather than leaving the field. I have been doing what I've always been taught to do and circling or backing her up, with the occasional treat when she moves forward of her own volition, but I've had some weird reactions from other people.

I've tried waiting it out if it looks like shes just concerned about something (we do have rabbits and lambs in the lane sometimes) and it is that, occasionally, but if shes just doing it out of stubbornness it seems like an ideal time to practice moving hindquarters and backing up. Searching previous threads has got me very varying tactics so just wondering what the "current" advice would be.

 

[planete]

She needs an incentive to want to leave the field and her friends. A short spell on nice long grass or browsing a juicy hedge has worked wonders for my nappy little cob. Once I get him out we head for the snack place where he gets a timed five minutes of scoffing before we proceed to doing whatever I had planned. I am getting funny looks from other people but after the first couple of times I am being marched out of the field in double quick time. The five minutes timed exactly is essential if you want to remain in charge though. Once the initial struggles are over (a few days) you should have a happy eager pony. Carrot stretches after work also mean you end on a high which will be remembered next time you want to work Sadie. I also work on yielding to pressure exercises to instil basic obedience, there are lots of YouTube vids on it. Cobs are a bit special (rather too bright!) and need to know there is something in it for them before they become enthusiastic about work. Once the mindset has been changed the rewards can be spaced out or given randomly. Enthusiastic praise and scratches can then be the only incentives needed. After a lifetime of eager Arabs and their crosses I had to learn how to get on with the cob personality!

 

[scats]

I don’t tolerate them planting and refusing to move in hand. I’ve had a fair few who came to me like that. Make her step forward to one side (she can’t not move then, as you’ll unbalance her), release and praise. Then the other side. Like you’re making her cross her feet over.
In over 30 years I’ve not encountered one horse that this hasn’t worked with. It’s my fail safe go to. Some give up easier than others, but the trick is to keep them stepping. It’s harder work to step to the side as they have crossing legs to think about, but they are still stepping forwards.
Mostly they realise within a few minutes that walking straight on is far less effort.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

Sadie has gotten very attached to her friends now they're on grass and is planting rather than leaving the field. I have been doing what I've always been taught to do and circling or backing her up, with the occasional treat when she moves forward of her own volition, but I've had some weird reactions from other people.

I've tried waiting it out if it looks like shes just concerned about something (we do have rabbits and lambs in the lane sometimes) and it is that, occasionally, but if shes just doing it out of stubbornness it seems like an ideal time to practice moving hindquarters and backing up. Searching previous threads has got me very varying tactics so just wondering what the "current" advice would be.

Stick with what works for you.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I won't tolerate horses just stopping when they feel like it especially being led, I would take a schooling whip and just flick it the second you think she is going to stop.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

If you have a method that works for you, ignore what other people say/think. It's none of their business!

I would use a combination of not allowing the horse to stop, rewarding the exit from the field and making the experience out of the field a pleasant one. The bottom line is that the horse must do as you ask.

 

[PSD]

Mine does this. I either back him up or circle him, or do as scats says and unbalance him by stepping him sideways. My boy is a worrying sort and hates doing anything alone (he is so much better now though) and just genuinely doesn’t like to leave his pals. I take treats with me and reward him when he doesn’t do it, don’t worry about what anyone else is saying or thinking, it isn’t them dealing with it.

I always try to end the period of him being in positively. Carrot stretches and a little treat - I try not to over do it with the treats though as he can get nippy off he’s expecting them plus I don’t want him to get chubby!

 

[smolmaus]

She needs an incentive to want to leave the field and her friends.

I'm a firm believer in this too and she is ALWAYS coming into a dinner (a very small one these days but still), shes just done the maths in her head and decided friends are more important ?

I don’t tolerate them planting and refusing to move in hand. I’ve had a fair few who came to me like that. Make her step forward to one side (she can’t not move then, as you’ll unbalance her), release and praise. Then the other side. Like you’re making her cross her feet over.
In over 30 years I’ve not encountered one horse that this hasn’t worked with. It’s my fail safe go to. Some give up easier than others, but the trick is to keep them stepping. It’s harder work to step to the side as they have crossing legs to think about, but they are still stepping forwards.
Mostly they realise within a few minutes that walking straight on is far less effort.

I will give this a go! It's harder to move her shoulders than her hind end so thats also a bonus if we can practise that.

I am the kind of person who wants as much info as possible so I do ask people "how would you handle this" fairly often around the yard, just because I'm curious, and I think I've overdone it and everyone thinks I'm stupid ?

 

[FlyingCircus]

I don’t tolerate them planting and refusing to move in hand. I’ve had a fair few who came to me like that. Make her step forward to one side (she can’t not move then, as you’ll unbalance her), release and praise. Then the other side. Like you’re making her cross her feet over.
In over 30 years I’ve not encountered one horse that this hasn’t worked with. It’s my fail safe go to. Some give up easier than others, but the trick is to keep them stepping. It’s harder work to step to the side as they have crossing legs to think about, but they are still stepping forwards.
Mostly they realise within a few minutes that walking straight on is far less effort.

Likewise! This is also something I do not tolerate at all and do not placate with treats to bribe them.

My mare did this when I first got her, and tries occasionally with new people. I use a rope halter and just keep pressure on it until she moves again. Back in the days when I first had her, I backed her 5 mins down to the yard as she refused to walk forward

 

[Caol Ila]

I hate planting. Any tactic that works is fair game. Backing up, circling, everything suggested here. Hermosa went through a phase of it last May and I tried any and all of the above. She was probably doing it because she was very pregnant (whoops) but it was still not cool. She hasn't done it since she foaled a year ago; don't know if it was fixed by not being pregnant or by the groundwork we've been doing.

My very first horse was a passionate planter. She had a PhD in it. When they do it, you do what you have to do to get them out of it. However, once I had the horse where I wanted her, i.e. the school, I did a lot of groundwork to improve her trust and listening skills. I know you do groundwork with Sadie -- maybe add more obstacles to your routine, like poles, tarps, umbrellas, anything to create situations where she might not want to focus on you, so you teach her to focus on you. I also do a lot of the NH-style circles, where you get them quite responsive to a driving aid at their flank while following your leading hand. When mine hesitate, I can lightly wave the rope at their haunches, and they step forward. You get that response to be really automatic.

Your yard mates sound oddly judgemental about things you do with your horse. Backing up across half the yard is a pretty standard trick.

 

[smolmaus]

I hate planting. Any tactic that works is fair game. Backing up, circling, everything suggested here. Hermosa went through a phase of it last May and I tried any and all of the above. She was probably doing it because she was very pregnant (whoops) but it was still not cool. She hasn't done it since she foaled a year ago; don't know if it was fixed by not being pregnant or by the groundwork we've been doing.

My very first horse was a passionate planter. She had a PhD in it. When they do it, you do what you have to do to get them out of it. However, once I had the horse where I wanted her, i.e. the school, I did a lot of groundwork to improve her trust and listening skills. I know you do groundwork with Sadie -- maybe add more obstacles to your routine, like poles, tarps, umbrellas, anything to create situations where she might not want to focus on you, so you teach her to focus on you. I also do a lot of the NH-style circles, where you get them quite responsive to a driving aid at their flank while following your leading hand. When mine hesitate, I can lightly wave the rope at their haunches, and they step forward. You get that response to be really automatic.

Your yard mates sound oddly judgemental about things you do with your horse. Backing up across half the yard is a pretty standard trick.

More obstacles is a great idea! We have run out of spooky things in the arena to investigate and I definitely haven't been making an effort to find things like I could do. We did have new concrete laid on the yard last week and flappy construction tape, walking over plywood and touching cones provided a few tantrums and learning opportunities but she is definitely out of the habit of investigate-for-rewards.

I was laughing when I said I backed her up the whole lane, because her realisation that she had been bamboozled was very comical, but the look on one girls face you'd think I'd told her I had to carry her on my back. "Oh no, what are you going to do, you'll have to move fields and get her away from those horses, thats not good" like... its not good but neither is the fact your horse rears on the road and yet I am always 100% supportive of your ability to figure it out! ?

 

[DizzyDoughnut]

I used a combination of circling and making them step to the side. My youngster tries this sometimes, a couple of times we have reversed across the yard, the first time he looked so surprised when he realised where he was, like he couldn't understand how he had got there. We do get some odd looks sometimes but I tell myself they're just jealous of our amazing backing up skills. ?

 

[smolmaus]

Just an update: schooling whip didn't f-ing work but it rarely does with her. She just looks at you even when you do experiment by actually using it ? So thats a bust, but I thought it might be anyway. Worked well keeping the rest of them from coming out of the gate as well tho. Crossing the front feet worked pretty well too so I'm sticking to that and reverse gear.

Investigative dander was a great success @Caol Ila btw. She was my little partner in crime yesterday afternoon and came with me while we did some chores round the yard, got stuff out of the car (she found the grazing muzzle), stood gossiping with the girls for 20 mins and she was a wee dote. Much more relaxed today too. We did some walk poles together completely at liberty which we haven't done in ages. Ty ?

 

[Winters100]

I would never condone aggressive behavior towards any animal, but I do think that we sometimes have a tendency to 'overthink'. Horses are not very gentle with each other, when my elderly mare wants one of the geldings to move she is not very polite about it. I would recommend an assertive and confident approach to the problem, personally I would simply not stand for this, and I think if you approach it with the attitude of 'you will move' rather than 'I wonder if this will work' then you might just find that the problem is solved. I would never want any of my horses to view me as a threat, but equally they should not view me as a pushover.

 

[ponynutz]

Stand by their shoulder, wear gloves, and take a schooling whip with you. Flick where your leg would be when they stop. Should only need one or two for them to get the message.

 

[Cowpony]

I've found a rope headcollar to be very effective in getting mine to move when she does this. I can often feel her starting to back off, but the slightest pressure on the rope gets her to keep moving. I have no love for Parelli, but I have one of their "be nice" headcollars and it works a treat. The only difference I can see between that and a normal rope headcollar though is that the Parelli one seems to be synthetic rope rather than natural fibres.

I also second doing lots of groundwork.

 

[smolmaus]

I think if you approach it with the attitude of 'you will move' rather than 'I wonder if this will work' then you might just find that the problem is solved. I would never want any of my horses to view me as a threat, but equally they should not view me as a pushover.

I know she will move eventually, but maybe thats not definitive enough. I do always start leading with the firm assumption she is just going to follow me, until I am proven wrong. She is a good little sausage really and given her background (not being able to touch another horse for years) I do find it hard to be cross (or very firm) with her not wanting to leave.

I tried flicking the whip behind as the noise is usually enough when she's not playing statue, tapping her back legs to annoy her into moving, a decent flick on the bum (fly rug prevents any real sting and I'm guessing she knows that herself) and a good poke at the girth all to very little effect. She just moves her quarters and gives me her wee foal-face and I feel ridiculous. Tricking her into doing what I want makes HER ridiculous, even if she doesn't actually feel it ?

I've found a rope headcollar to be very effective in getting mine to move when she does this. I can often feel her starting to back off, but the slightest pressure on the rope gets her to keep moving. I have no love for Parelli, but I have one of their "be nice" headcollars and it works a treat. The only difference I can see between that and a normal rope headcollar though is that the Parelli one seems to be synthetic rope rather than natural fibres.

I also second doing lots of groundwork.

I would be a bit worried that a headcollar with pressure points might make her averse to headcollars in general. She has always been an absolute angel to catch and I do NOT want to risk making that an additional problem ?

 

[Caol Ila]

I have never found that rope headcollars make horses averse to headcollars, or to being caught. I work everything in either a rope halter or cavesson if I am doing a groundwork training day, or going on a long in-hand walk and want extra control, or I don't entirely trust the horse yet. They don't graduate to a nylon headcollar until groundwork is established enough for me to lead it and tie it without faff or discussion. The trouble with flat nylon headcollars is that they offer no precision at all with pressure-release, so if you're training (rather than simply moving trained horsey from A to B) you end up with a confused horse because the release is not apparent to them. They learn from the release. Confusion is more distressing for equines in the long run. Before rope halters were en vogue, I used a stud chain for ground manners training. I was taught a way to wrap it around the noseband, so it wasn't as harsh as it would be if placed directly over the nose, but it allowed for more precise cues than the lead rope clipped to the bottom ring.

I am talking about standard rope halters like this one.



I haven't used any of the ones "invented" by natural horsemanship gurus like Duallys and so on, but I have been told that they are not as quick to release as one of these.

I would be the first to use one on a planter. It makes the behaviour you want clear to them. I think you can be firm but empathetic. My Highland has a weird background as well and he sometimes plants (under saddle) when feeling insecure.I can't and don't get cross with him, but at the same time, I will use a firm leg aid, my whip against my boot, and when that fails, circling, to explain that we don't do this. He is so much better than he was. It's not just about making him go -- it's also about feeling strong and confident. They know! And they want to be told what to do. They might question it at first, but ultimately it makes them feel more secure.

 

[I'm Dun]

I know she will move eventually, but maybe thats not definitive enough. I do always start leading with the firm assumption she is just going to follow me, until I am proven wrong. She is a good little sausage really and given her background (not being able to touch another horse for years) I do find it hard to be cross (or very firm) with her not wanting to leave.

I tried flicking the whip behind as the noise is usually enough when she's not playing statue, tapping her back legs to annoy her into moving, a decent flick on the bum (fly rug prevents any real sting and I'm guessing she knows that herself) and a good poke at the girth all to very little effect. She just moves her quarters and gives me her wee foal-face and I feel ridiculous. Tricking her into doing what I want makes HER ridiculous, even if she doesn't actually feel it ?


I would be a bit worried that a headcollar with pressure points might make her averse to headcollars in general. She has always been an absolute angel to catch and I do NOT want to risk making that an additional problem ?

You cannot go through life thinking poor pony, she had a horrible start I must be very nice to her. By doing that, your not actually being nice, your causing an issue.

It can be hard to emotionally distance yourself when they are your own, so I'd find someone to come and give you some ground work lessons. You have a minor problem currently, but these things usually escalate quite quickly so you need to nip it in the bud.

 

[Tiddlypom]

You cannot go through life thinking poor pony, she had a horrible start I must be very nice to her. By doing that, your not actually being nice, your causing an issue.

Absolutely this.

The 'kindest' way to handle the RSPCA young rescue fosters that I have had is to be calm, firm and fair. Then they get their confidence from you. Balking or planting is not an option.

 

[Winters100]

You cannot go through life thinking poor pony, she had a horrible start I must be very nice to her. By doing that, your not actually being nice, your causing an issue.

Totally agree. Pony is not thinking 'oh poor me, I had such a bad time before', so neither should you.

In my opinion horses and dogs benefit from having a 'leader'. They do not have the stress of being in charge, having to decide whether something is dangerous or not, or if it is a good idea, because their leader does that for them. To be a good leader you should be able to keep your temper, and be firm and consistent. I would also say that having good manners is to the pony's benefit in the long run. If you are ever unwell, or have some other circumstances which prevent you from caring for her yourself, it will be much easier to arrange cover if she is a well mannered pony who is easy to handle. Likewise if you ever had to sell a well mannered pony is much more likely to end up with a good home than a difficult one.

 

[smolmaus]

You cannot go through life thinking poor pony, she had a horrible start I must be very nice to her. By doing that, your not actually being nice, your causing an issue.

It can be hard to emotionally distance yourself when they are your own, so I'd find someone to come and give you some ground work lessons. You have a minor problem currently, but these things usually escalate quite quickly so you need to nip it in the bud.

Oh hey I didn't mean I plan to let her get away with murder! I just mean I understand WHY she's doing what she's doing, and I'm not going to get annoyed or angry about it! Calm and reasonable steps still being taken! Did you read the rest of the thread or just that post?

 

[Tiddlypom]

and given her background (not being able to touch another horse for years) I do find it hard to be cross (or very firm) with her not wanting to leave.

This is what you posted, smolmaus. You must be firm and consistent with her, which is very different to being cross. Being cross is counter productive.

 

[smolmaus]

This is what you posted, smolmaus. You must be firm and consistent with her, which is very different to being cross. Being cross is counter productive.

VERY firm was honestly a nicer way of me saying I'm not going to chase her up the lane with a schooling whip. Saying I have some empathy for her feeling insecure, and that I don't blame her for it doesn't counter act what I have said I am actually doing which is consistently backing her up when she won't go forward. Most people agreed that was a perfectly fine method.

She came in almost perfectly today, with just one small hesitation despite the rest of the herd bolting up the field like lunatics full of fresh grass.

 

[DizzyDoughnut]

I answered this think of my youngster who plants, with him it's generally purely because he's seen a something he wants to eat and is most put out that he's having to just walk past it or he's bored with whatever you're asking him to do.
My welsh one used to be really bad with separation anxiety he's pretty good now but it took a lot of time of gradually increasing the distance we went. With him if he plants it's normally because he's genuinely concerned about something or scared to go on without his friends, so I tend to give him time to think things through and then I'll still do the backing and yielding his backend or moving off to the side till we're unstuck and moving again the only difference is giving him time to settle down and realise he is actually just fine and can do it, whereas with the youngster I will back it up with a flick of the rope behind us and insist we do move, with the welsh one I won't because if he's already scared, me adding to much pressure just escalates things, he just needs to get the confidence to carry on.

 

[exracehorse]

I would never condone aggressive behavior towards any animal, but I do think that we sometimes have a tendency to 'overthink'. Horses are not very gentle with each other, when my elderly mare wants one of the geldings to move she is not very polite about it. I would recommend an assertive and confident approach to the problem, personally I would simply not stand for this, and I think if you approach it with the attitude of 'you will move' rather than 'I wonder if this will work' then you might just find that the problem is solved. I would never want any of my horses to view me as a threat, but equally they should not view me as a pushover.

Agree. I don’t take any shite from any of mine. But they all do come onto the yard with a haynet and a few carrots.