Pony nuts and laminitis

[Birker2020]

Hi can you tell me if these are ok in a snackaball to give a horse who might have had a laminitis flare up?

I had to call the vet out as Lari was very footy this morning. He's been out overnight in a 12m x 6m paddock.

The vet said he was sore on his toes with the pincers but he has seedy toe/very slight hoof wall separation so we can't rule that out. He's not shuffling his feet from weight to one from the other and he doesn't have a bounding pulse just slightly elevated.

He says box rest for 2 weeks, soaked hay, no carotts or apples and he wants him to graze for an hour after the two weeks and he will then immediately do an insulin test.

He said he was very pleased with his tendon injury but isn't certain he doesn't have EMS. If he does we will be calling it a day, he won't cope in retirement livery.

He loves his snackaball so if i can find some low sugar nuts at least he can still have that pleasure.

 

[stangs]

They have molasses so I wouldn't recommend it. For low sugar treats, celery's your best bet though wouldn't work in a snack ball.

 

[Red-1]

EMS can some and go. Rigsby had levels of over 250 when tested before I got him. With losing weight and having had very careful feeding whilst his lami settled, he now tests perfectly normal, low teens, even on the sugar syrup test. He can now handle sugars. In fact, his last test was just under 10, I think.

The vet said that levels can go up when the horse has been in pain and under stress. If this is the cause for them going up, they can go back down again. Hopefully Lari is just having a blip. Not that I'm saying it would be possible to manage on a retirement livery yard as, even though he now tests as normal, I still treat Rigs as a lami risk with either well soaked hay or the special high fibre haylage, and restricted grazing with a muzzle.

I would not feed those nuts.

If you want a treat ball, I would get the hayball type, with little holes, and put high fibre haylage in. https://www.naylors.com/16178945/prostable-hayball-small-holes-blue-16178945/?istCompanyId=684339d5-dfdd-4b40-a421-3f1a725421f6&istFeedId=6bf8514a-a835-4485-908d-5547cfe90287&istItemId=rwqmwmqql&istBid=t&msclkid=8bfbbef8a3681a7a2825daaca3b7beed&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=GB - Smart Shopping - Catch All&utm_term=4581527531583370&utm_content=Catch All

 

[Birker2020]

EMS can some and go. Rigsby had levels of over 250 when tested before I got him. With losing weight and having had very careful feeding whilst his lami settled, he now tests perfectly normal, low teens, even on the sugar syrup test. He can now handle sugars.

The vet said that levels can go up when the horse has been in pain and under stress. If this is the cause for them going up, they can go back down again. Hopefully Lari is just having a blip. Not that I'm saying it would be possible to manage on a retirement livery yard as, even though he now tests as normal, I still treat Rigs as a lami risk with either well soaked hay or the special high fibre haylage, and restricted grazing with a muzzle.

I would not feed those nuts.

If you want a treat ball, I would get the hayball type, with little holes, and put high fibre haylage in. https://www.naylors.com/16178945/prostable-hayball-small-holes-blue-16178945/?istCompanyId=684339d5-dfdd-4b40-a421-3f1a725421f6&istFeedId=6bf8514a-a835-4485-908d-5547cfe90287&istItemId=rwqmwmqql&istBid=t&msclkid=8bfbbef8a3681a7a2825daaca3b7beed&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=GB - Smart Shopping - Catch All&utm_term=4581527531583370&utm_content=Catch All

Thanks, I have one of those already so may do that

 

[Barton Bounty]

Heygates Horse & Pony Nuts 20kg | Horse Nuts | Pony Nuts: Petz 1st

For Heygates Horse & Pony Nuts, Petz 1st can help. Our Heygates nuts are suitable for horses and ponies with low to medium energy. Order Now!

www.petz1st.co.uk

This is an option. They have good reviews.

 

[SEL]

I use pony nuts in treatballs. The little ones are a bit too easy to get out and gobble up. I think I used Bailey's fibre nuggets last time which took longer.

I don't worry about a small amount of molasses

 

[meleeka]

I feed those as a treat to one pony, but don’t give them to my laminitis prone mini. They are apparently very tasty, so that’s a giveaway that they aren’t suitable. I’d look for a lower sugar/starch version.

https://mearsanimalfeeds.co.uk/product/high-fibre-nuts-dodson-and-horrell/

 

[Melandmary]

I have 2 ems ponies, both have had lami. meadow Magic grass nuts are suitable although quite small for a treat ball, i use thunderbrooks hay cobs in their snack balls as they are a bit chunkier . Both are just under the 10% combined sugar and starch.

 

[Melandmary]

I use pony nuts in treatballs. The little ones are a bit too easy to get out and gobble up. I think I used Bailey's fibre nuggets last time which took longer.

I don't worry about a small amount of molasses

Yes those are super tasty, my pony used to love those but they come in at around 18% sugar and starch so not suitable at all for ems sadly

 

[holeymoley]

Simple systems lucie cubes or thunderbrooks hay cobs are what I use in my EMS’s treat ball.

 

[Birker2020]

Thanks everyone.

The ver ssid to substitute cucumber for carotts. He said he thought the spinach he eats is safe. Anymore veg suitable for possible EMS case please?

 

[TGM]

The ingredients list is not very clear, but it certainly includes barley and molasses so quite a high chance the nuts will be higher in starch/sugar than the recommended threshold for a laminitic. The most sensible option at this stage is not to give him a snackaball at all, but if you really must then I would go for a fibre nugget with a published starch/sugar content well below 10%. There is no legal requirement for feed companies to give the starch/sugar content, so you will find that most of the budget brands such as Pegasus won't declare it. I'd be careful with grass nuts too, as some of them can be too high in sugar for a laminitic.

 

[Red-1]

Thanks everyone.

The ver ssid to substitute cucumber for carotts. He said he thought the spinach he eats is safe. Anymore veg suitable for possible EMS case please?

Rigs has celery as a snack. I got him to be forward on the school by having many celerybrations. I wonder if chopped celery would fit in a treat ball?

Other than that a high fibre haylage in the snack ball, as I linked to and you have. The small holed one takes longer to get, especially if you separate the haylage so it doesn't all come ot of the one hole with a good long tug!

 

[Highmileagecob]

I use chopped up broccoli stems and chopped swede for my probable EMS. Could it be that you are starting to see the results of barefoot transition, and Lari is now experiencing some pain due to remodelling of internal structures in the hoof? I appreciate it is difficult to tell with so much going on. Fingers crossed he starts to heal.

 

[Birker2020]

I use chopped up broccoli stems and chopped swede for my probable EMS. Could it be that you are starting to see the results of barefoot transition, and Lari is now experiencing some pain due to remodelling of internal structures in the hoof? I appreciate it is difficult to tell with so much going on. Fingers crossed he starts to heal.

He went barefoot 23rd Nov so I'd have thought he would have adjusted by now but you might be right! What made me think he'd possibly got laminitis was that when stood for a length of time and then asked to walk forwards, he rocked back a little on all four legs with them straight. And the fact he kept pointing his toe lowering the heel then on tip toe again seconds later.But vet checked pulses and although slightly elevated no where near bounding.


Vet says he's very pleased wuth his SDFT abd DDFT injury and the way its responded to ice therapy and LW ultrasound treatment but said again he has slight HWS (hoof wall separation) and this and the thrush might have been due to contamination of the hoof at retirement as he's gone from hooves being picked out daily, legs and soles of feet jet hosed and legs and feet dried with a towel and stood on a nice dry shavings bed every day to dry out to out in fields 24/7 with an area of deep mud to navigate from the mud control mats to the grass.

I walked him out of the stable this morning and was amazed by the improvement.

2 things had changed:

1. He had a sachet of bute last night instead of half
2. He wasn't walking around eating grass all night but instead was stood on rubber matting/shavings

Its a mystery....

 

[Red-1]

He went barefoot 23rd Nov so I'd have thought he would have adjusted by now but you might be right! What made me think he'd possibly got laminitis was that when stood for a length of time and then asked to walk forwards, he rocked back a little on all four legs with them straight. And the fact he kept pointing his toe lowering the heel then on tip toe again seconds later.But vet checked pulses and although slightly elevated no where near bounding.


Vet says he's very pleased wuth his SDFT abd DDFT injury and the way its responded to ice therapy and LW ultrasound treatment but said again he has slight HWS (hoof wall separation) and this and the thrush might have been due to contamination of the hoof at retirement as he's gone from hooves being picked out daily, legs and soles of feet jet hosed and legs and feet dried with a towel and stood on a nice dry shavings bed every day to dry out to out in fields 24/7 with an area of deep mud to navigate from the mud control mats to the grass.

I walked him out of the stable this morning and was amazed by the improvement.

2 things had changed:

1. He had a sachet of bute last night instead of half
2. He wasn't walking around eating grass all night but instead was stood on rubber matting/shavings

Its a mystery....

Yay for improvement!

I think it may take a while for his feet to settle, they were pretty poor when he left, with thrush. Hopefully, you can get it all cleared up and a little stronger and then he can give you the pleasure you felt when seeing him retired with mates.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Rehab often takes two complete growths of a hoof, from coronet to ground before the horse comes anything near sound. Factor in abscess formation, bouts of thrush, separated white lines and general discomfort whilst internal changes are taking place, and it's very easy to give up. In Lari's case, he is strengthening weak or injured tendons as well. You are doing a good job, and the setbacks are being resolved. I've still got everything crossed that he comes through.

 

[SantaVera]

Generally not suitable,combined starch and sugar needs to be below 10%for a EMS horse,beware foods labeled as low sugar they often have a lot of starch in them. Of all the treats I found only one to be below 10%s&s I rang round manufacturers to find out.i think it's Hilton herbs herbal treats but you need to check

 

[Birker2020]

I asked the feed merchant lady about cubes suitable for laminitis/EMS and she suggested Spillers cubes.

Approved by the Laminitis Society.

 

[scats]

I asked the feed merchant lady about cubes suitable for laminitis/EMS and she suggested Spillers cubes.

Approved by the Laminitis Society.

Still fairly high starch levels for laminitis/EMS (I try to stay under 10% combined sugar and starch) but a little handful in a ball shouldn’t cause a problem really.

 

[ycbm]

B apart from stuff to get drugs/supplements into him, I wouldn't be feeding a laminitic who still has his teeth anything but soaked hay or straw. Everything else is too quick to eat and a risk, imo.
.

 

[Birker2020]

B apart from stuff to get drugs/supplements into him, I wouldn't be feeding a laminitic who still has his teeth anything but soaked hay or straw. Everything else is too quick to eat and a risk, imo.
.

Stuck behind a rock and a hard place tbh.
I need to keep him moving a little in the stable due to his S.I and KS and neck arthritis as he's seizing up a bit and the snackaball is good for that as it keeps him moving.

Tbh I am beginning to wonder if he does have laminitis. Not saying I know more than the vet but with absent heat in feet, a minimal digital pulse and walking much better, with no foot shifting when stood still it makes me wonder if the HWS is causing him the issue. So many people have said it doesn't look like lami.

Asked the physio earlier about the rocking back when stood for length of time and asked to walk on. She confirmed it could be because he's just stiff and sore being on box rest with his myriad of issues. The foot pointing may well be due to the HWS, even though minimal it may be quite sore.

It's a wait and see thing. The sdft/DDfT so much better. These were photos from yesterday I think.

 

[Barton Bounty]

I didnt think carrots were good for EMS but I might be wrong

 

[Highmileagecob]

He appears to be improving daily, and maintaining good health. You are doing the right thing by watching closely for changes, and dealing with them promptly, but it is a tricky time. Look back at how far you have brought him - and he is responding to all the care.

 

[Birker2020]

Thanks everyone.

The ver ssid to substitute cucumber for carotts. He said he thought the spinach he eats is safe. Anymore veg suitable for possible EMS case please?

Meant cucumber instead of carrots BB lol

 

[Birker2020]

He appears to be improving daily, and maintaining good health. You are doing the right thing by watching closely for changes, and dealing with them promptly, but it is a tricky time. Look back at how far you have brought him - and he is responding to all the care.

Thank you. Fingers xsed eh?