Pony snatching and improving rider balance

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cazzamamma

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Hi everyone,

I have 9 year old pony, always been on the lead rein since he was backed until recently. My 7 year old daughter has ridden him since he was broken, she has done so much in the pony club with me leading her.

Then towards the end of last year she came off the lead rein and we are having a few issues:

1. Hes snatching the reins from her as he knows that he can do it and is getting away with it - I have tried grass reins and he still can take the reins from her. When I ride him, he tries it once and then not again. I have been schooling him for the past few weeks but as soon as she gets on board he knows he can get away with it.

Whilst uploading the picture to the post, I noticed that I just had 1 grass rein on him there. At the moment I have the equiami grass rein which goes from the d-ring, through bit, over poll, through other side of bit and back to other d-ring and he might be snatching more because of it.

2. Then there are typical issues such as him wanting to go his own direction, ie back towards the other ponies. He doesn't actually run back to them, he just pops his shoulder and tries to side step back to them, while my daughter is trying to pull him round. She just isn't strong enough yet to give him a good kick with the outside leg.

3. He is a show hunter type pony with lovely movement, he is quite bouncy but she is used to it. What would be the best way for me to work on her core strength so that she is more independent of the reins? We are going to start with no stirrups in walk this week but he is too fast I think for her to do sitting trot without stirrups.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1d4tlqqwn3i9rir/Ben 2016 amended.JPG?dl=0

I wasn't schooling him when she was on the lead rein but I will continue to school him now as I am small enough, but I don't want to put my daughter off in the mean time. He is brilliant to hack on the roads and she has been to the beach on the lunge line. There is no badness in the pony.

Any helpful advice or stories of experience would be a great help. Many thanks
 
What does her pony club instructor think??

My son's pony snatches occasionally at the beginning of a ride, but grass reins means she can't really get her head too low, so its not a big problem.

Definitely do lots of work without stirrups, especially on the lunge to improve her seat.

Fiona
 
cazzamamma said:
Hes snatching the reins from her as he knows that he can do it and is getting away with it - I have tried grass reins and he still can take the reins from her. When I ride him, he tries it once and then not again. I have been schooling him for the past few weeks but as soon as she gets on board he knows he can get away with it.
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Why can he get away with it? Yes, your daughter is smaller/not as strong as you, but she can still tell him off. This will help with both issues 1 and 2 - he needs to learn that she is now in charge. He sounds a nice sort, so it shouldn't take long for him to learn the new rules.

Does she carry a whip? I'd give her a short stick and as soon as he goes to snatch the reins from her or push through the shoulder, one tap on the shoulder. She does need to react quickly.

For issue 3, lunging. You can make a game of this, e.g. get pony trotting round (with stirrups), she does her rising trot with no reins but moving her arms to commands like 'hands on your head' and 'aeroplane!' - it gets them to learn their balance without overthinking it :) The more she can do without her reins, the more independent her seat will be.
 
The pony has not been schooled to go off the lead rein so unsurprisingly you are having issues, he is unsure, she is unsure so the snatching is his way of showing his confusion, he requires hours of work to get him understanding what is expected of him, riding yourself is a start, lunging her on top to get him listening to her aids, not you in charge all the time, also some long reining to get him more confident.
Your daughter should by now be able to ride without stirrups in trot on the lunge, do loads with no reins as well to get her really independent, he needs help at this stage of his education after years on the lead rein he is going to find it difficult to go it alone and in many ways you are lucky he is only showing his greenness rather than being a naughty pony that will not go off lead, give him time and treat him like the young inexperienced pony he is.
 
Fiona said:
What does her pony club instructor think??

Definitely do lots of work without stirrups, especially on the lunge to improve her seat.

Fiona
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Hi Fiona, the pony club haven't said much, one said for me to school him and one at the weekend said I needed something older, broader and with a flatter movement.

I have told her that we are going to start working on no reins or stirrups
 
smja said:
Why can he get away with it? Yes, your daughter is smaller/not as strong as you, but she can still tell him off. This will help with both issues 1 and 2 - he needs to learn that she is now in charge. He sounds a nice sort, so it shouldn't take long for him to learn the new rules.

For issue 3, lunging. You can make a game of this, e.g. get pony trotting round (with stirrups), she does her rising trot with no reins but moving her arms to commands like 'hands on your head' and 'aeroplane!' - it gets them to learn their balance without overthinking it :) The more she can do without her reins, the more independent her seat will be.
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I appreciate what you are saying, I could get her a short whip and tell her to use her voice to scold him and yes really going to focus on her seat and strength in the saddle
 
be positive said:
He requires hours of work to get him understanding what is expected of him, riding yourself is a start, lunging her on top to get him listening to her aids, not you in charge all the time, also some long reining to get him more confident.
Your daughter should by now be able to ride without stirrups in trot on the lunge, do loads with no reins as well to get her really independent,
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Thanks for the advice, I'm considering getting her a pony on loan for a few months so that she can get her strength and confidence up, with me still schooling her pony in the mean time
 
I think a lot depends on the individual child, and the pony. I had a young girl came to ride my boy as her second/third pony, I explained to parents that I thought she would not cope, but they insisted. She was a beautifully schooled rider, and had had her own pony for years, winning rosettes etc, but when at the first sign of trouble, [I knew he was going to gyp at going past his field gate, instead of kicking on, she did nothing, so he stopped, I was with her, and told her to tap him with the schooling whip provided, and she did nothing, I insisted, and she burst in to tears! This was after she had ridden and jumped him for 40 mins, she just lacked experience, expected the horse to do the work!
 
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I'm not sure that takes us much further forward - be positive has hit the nail on the head as usual. Pony does not understand what is expected of him because he has never been shown. He has only ever worked with another person or horse beside him. Working out on his own is new and scary. He doesn't have the confidence in his rider to keep him safe - he has never needed to learn that.

If he is starting to dent her confidence then a loan pony for a while would be good if you can arrange it. She needs to learn to go it alone almost as much as the pony does! Depending on your PC you might be able to find a good confident young rider to help re-school. My daughter used to do this a lot for others when she was younger. But the bottom line is the pony will always know when it is your daughter and when it is someone else.

He looks absolutely lovely in the pictures and his behaviour sounds only green not nasty. He should be well worth the investment to get him sorted. But not at the expense of your daughter's confidence. (Just stating the obvious - not in any way suggesting that you would!)
 
I went to see a loan pony last night and my daughter thought he was fab. He is an aged pony, the same height as our own. We are going to try him again tomorrow night. Our own pony will be schooled tonight and then my daughter will hack him at the weekend.

Do you think a set of elastic inserts on the reins would help with the contact when my daughter is on board just to give a little?
 
My daughter has just come off the lead rein and I have put balance support reins on as the pony is a bit big for her and he snatches the reins. They are a godsend and life with them is much easier.

However, I do also second Be Postive, the pony has no idea what is being asked so yes, keep schooling yourself but also lots of long rein work so that you can use aids like your daughter will so he understands.
 
Doormouse said:
I have put balance support reins on as the pony is a bit big for her and he snatches the reins. They are a godsend and life with them is much easier.
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I looked at the balance support reins if these would actually stop him from pulling down since he was still able to do it in the grass reins and equiami reins. They would definitely give her more confidence that she wouldn't lose her reins. One trainer tied her reins in a knot, the pony pulled and took the reins with the knot up to his ears leaving her with nothing! That scared the life out of her!
 
Well, sounds to me as though she needs confidence giving pony now. Can she go to Pony Club? Our local RS has a sort of private one, with classes through the winter, its more classroom with art, a bit of science, and some real mucking out, which they love!
It helps to interact with a mixed bunch of kids, and they can share experiences.
Of course, I have no children, but they are usually quite interesting at that age.
 
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The support reins should stop him pulling down if correctly fitted. Obviously only as a stop gap until pony learns more for himself. The other possibility might be bridging her reins - if her hands are big enough? When the bridge is put down on to the withers the pony only pulls against itself. But it does need hands large enough to hold what is effective two sets of reins.
 
How high does your wee girl jump OP???

Because if its only wee crosspoles up to 45cm or so, I'd be tempted to really tighten up the grass reins, even cross them over the pony's withers for a short period, because snatching hard enough to pull the reins completely out of her hands is very bad mannered and should be nipped in the bud IMO.

Son's present pony did this when we first got her, and it got him off every time (he was only just 4) so PC instructor crossed his grass reins for a month or so, and in that time he got more confident and pony got used to him, so once they were loosened off we didn't have a problem any more.

However if she is jumping 60cm plus I would only try it for flatwork, as pony will need more freedom to jump that height.

Fiona
 
Hiya I'd definitely try a set of balance reins I just got a second hand pair for my daughters pony and they help keep a lovely consistant contact on his mouth and if fitted correctly you can also use them when jumping and pony also can't snatch the reins. I'm also currently schooling my daughters pony as he can sometimes be a bit much but the balance reins are a nice confidence boost for my daughter and pony in the mean time until he's had more schooling.
 
I schooled him tonight and he trots and canters so fast. Should I go back to lunge work to get a steady rhythm? I can half halt in trot but its much harder in canter
 
cazzamamma said:
I schooled him tonight and he trots and canters so fast. Should I go back to lunge work to get a steady rhythm? I can half halt in trot but its much harder in canter
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I'd be inclined to send him for proper training for three or four weeks, , he obviousy has issues with pushing the boundaries, and rebreaking, ie going through every stage, will find out where the problem is, and sort it out.
 
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So last night we did a lunge session with my daughter on board, she crossed over her stirrups, did head, shoulders, knees and toes, aeroplane arms, touching her hat, stroking down his neck all at walk and then she tried some sitting trot which she was scared to do but then wanted to see how far she could go round the arena. She did round the world etc. She absolutely loved it and wants to do it today again. Pony was in side reins and behaved wonderfully. I have ordered balance support reins so hopefully they will arrive by tomorrow
 
cazzamamma said:
Hi Fiona, 45cm is her max. When he puts his head down he goes to his front hooves and he was able to do it in the side reins tonight
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Attach the side reins to the D rings of the saddle so they are like a rider holding reins in a contact. He wont be able to put his head down then! Can you send him away to be schooled or get an experienced teenager to school him regularly
 
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