Pony still not catching, in fact getting worse!

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WishfulThinker

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Have been doing the join up stuff with pony, but he is stubborn! Very stubborn, adn arrogant! I had someone who knows what they are doing come out and see to him the other day and it took 2 hours just to get near to him to stroke him. I have been advised to keep it up, so I did but last night he was worse than before and just cantered round and round for almost 15 mins. Then he will stop and face you, and the min you move he bolts off again. I did eventually get near him and literally stroked his neck with 1 finger before he was off again.
He does lick and chew - but then buggers off again.

I am at my wits end as he needs his feet done and his jabs......so now it is a case of IF we can corall him to catch him something he doesnt like IS going to happen to him, its unavoidable.

Anyone got any other ideas? I really am at the point where I think I will have to use sedative as I end up sp upset after working with him as its taking up 2 hours extra of my day that at the moment I just dont have to spend and he isnt getting any better. And I am fed up of getting home at 11pm :(
 
another vote for a bucket of feed, carrots, polos, apples, anything - and I would keep a headcollar on him (maybe a field safe one) with a foot of rope attached to it for something to get hold of.

Is there any ay he can be stabled for a week or so, to get lots of handling once he's been caught ? Just a random thought. Or can you electric fence the paddock so he's in a much smaller area ? Is he in with another horse who can be caught at the same time ?

And i agree a calmer is a must ! Any idea what started this ? sm x
 
What exactly do you mean by "doing join up stuff"?

If you're driving him away in the field, with his only "reward" being the relief of getting away from you, it isn't surprising that his behaviour is getting worse. You are, in effect, teaching him to avoid you.

"Join up" works when the horse can't escape and thus obtain relief when he wants. That's why it's usually done in a round pen. It is possible to do something similar in an open field, but for it to work you need to be able to keep up the pressure and then drop it when you choose, not when he chooses. If running off buys him time to relax, then it's not going to work.

So I would also suggest that you change tactics and start rewarding the behaviours you want. Initially, you can reward him coming up to you to take food. Then you can progress to letting him have a treat only when he looks like he's not going to run off again (i.e. reward the "attitude"). Then you can progress to giving him a treat only after you've put his headcollar on. etc. It may take a bit of patience if his habit of avoiding you has become ingrained.

Whatever you do, after you have caught him, don't scold him for being "naughty". (Yes, I have seen people do that!). Instead, make him feel good about coming to you.

In summary, if you can't make his running away unpleasant enough, you have to make his coming to you pleasant enough.
 
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He has no interest in hard feed if you are trying to catch him - apples and carrots sometimes.

He is currently in a 10m 'ring' paddock that was electrified when I left last night (I got 5 massive shocks from it so it is working!). And we did have a headcollar on him, but after 2 weeks of not being abel to get him his nose was rubbed raw and so we had ro corall him to get it off and stuff put on it.
He was in with my horse, but he made the horse very hard to catch so we had to separate them as he was making horse worse instead of mature horse making pony better :(.

He is only 2.

If someone was doing somethinghorrible to him I would understand it, but we do try and even give him a treat if he comes near when we catch the horse - as you have to go via pony field to horses.

He will happily go round and round and round and round and round for ages. He will get him self dripping in sweat and beathing like a dragon and STILL keep on going.

But see once you catch him. He is a tad nervy, but VERY nosey and very outgoing and give him things to play with and he is right into it -like the grooming kit - he took out adn inspected everything I had in there, and happily put his nose right in through everything to retrieve mints he found at the bottom. And he will let you stroke his head and play about with his ears - and pick his feet up.

You just cant catch him.......................He is a Sec A, and I have been told this is a breed thing possibly :(
 
I've had success with "stalking" - you need a lot of time and patience, and comfortable boots. Just keep walking after him, don't let him stop to graze, but if he stops and looks at you, you stop. Eventually he'll let you get closer to him, and as long as you don't give up, you'll get there. Take a sandwich - he's got to get hungry before you do.

Ideally I'd get close enough to give him a rub, maybe a treat, and then leave him.

Do the same thing next day, you should find it takes a much shorter time, and maybe on the third day try the headcollar, but take him in and give him a feed, then turn out again.

He's got to associate catching with reward. I make a point of always feeding my horses when they come in to their stables, even just a handful, makes life easier for me!
 
hehe, we have a little dartmoor pony that is exactly the same (well he would be if I could catch him at all!) I put him out with the very friendly attention seeking herd thinking it would rub off, but no, he with come and take treats off you but no more!

What we did with our section a was lots of treats as we walked past (not even attempting to catch) and then a lot of repetative work removing (treat) replacing (treat) headcollar so that in the end (within a couple of days) he was coming and putting his nose in the headcollar.

This hasn't worked with mischief but Im sure it will eventually!
 
intouch said:
I've had success with "stalking" - you need a lot of time and patience, and comfortable boots. Just keep walking after him, don't let him stop to graze, but if he stops and looks at you, you stop. Eventually he'll let you get closer to him, and as long as you don't give up, you'll get there. Take a sandwich - he's got to get hungry before you do.

Ideally I'd get close enough to give him a rub, maybe a treat, and then leave him.

Do the same thing next day, you should find it takes a much shorter time, and maybe on the third day try the headcollar, but take him in and give him a feed, then turn out again.

He's got to associate catching with reward. I make a point of always feeding my horses when they come in to their stables, even just a handful, makes life easier for me!
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Its kinda this + join up they have me doing. Gently trying to approach him, no eye contact, slowly slowly. You get near him then BAM, he is off at a hells pace. What they have me doing then to tell him he is a bad pony and keep him going round then stop and wait for him to stop. Dont let him eat. Try and approach him carefuly again....If he lets you reward with praise - so with every step im like "good boy, good pony" etc etc. But if he then takes off again its bad pony etc. I did get close enough to stroke him a few times, but he wont take a treat. Just stands there shaking like a leaf.

He isnt bothered if he doesnt eat. He isnt bothered if he has to run round and round and round. He will stop and stare right at you with fixed jaw. He does occasionally do the licking and chewing, but the min you move after praising him he is off again.

Every other time I have 'caught' him he gets a feed and a reward. But even in the stable he is hard to catch and as he would follow my horse in my horse would get so fed up of the wee bugger running round the stable that he would pin it against the wall so I could get hold of it.

We did try the stalking him thing in the field before, but after 3 hours I ran out of time as had to go get my daughter.
 
Oh dear, if he is shaking, it sounds like he is genuinely afraid, not naughty. If he thinks he is going to die, that's different, and I'd suggest you get in a professional to help you, like an IHRA, if there are any near you?
 
Your description of him is a description of a frightened pony. At the moment he is just learning to associate you with stress. I cannot imagine that he cares just now whether you think he is a 'bad pony' or a 'good pony'. IME this only works with an animal which knows you well.
Has he got plenty to eat in his field? If so put him in a bare paddock, feed him hay, which YOU have put out, he will pick up your scent/taste from this, will look forward to your arrival with the hay, you can put a feed bucket in the paddock and move away from it, eventually he will let you get closer to the bucket while he is eating. This will take TIME and PATIENCE. If you need to catch him soon, it would probably be best to ask someone else to do this, so that he doesn't connect you to the stress.
 
You will have to use your common sense with this one.... but it does work.

Take out his water supply, and offer him water as and when, believe me he will come when he is thirsty!!

It is ideal to do at the moment as the ground is so hard and dry.

Once you have got him, bring him in and handle him day in and day out, get him really tame.
 
Whatever you do, stop doing "Join Up". I don't think he is a suitable case for that approach, and don't take offence, but I don't think you have the experience or skill in Join Up to use it anyway. To use Join Up with traumatised or scared horses you need to be properly trained.
I also think it would be helpful to stop thinking of him as stubborn and arrogant. Horses are not arrogant. He is very afraid, and you are in danger of making a bad situation worse.
I think at this stage you need to stop everything and get some skilled help. People here are really helpful, but if you've got a pony shaking when approached it's time to get someone who can look at what is going on, rather than try to follow instructions second-hand. Where are you? Maybe we can recommend someone.
 
^^ i think the water tactic may be the answer.

I've been thinking about this at the yard - the pony is clearly scared. Why don't you try the good old fashioned route of a chair in his paddock, sit with your feet up, read a good book, have some polos on you, or better still that bucket of water too, and just let him come to you if/when he's ready. keep doing that as often as you can, maybe without catching him to start with, and see how he comes along.

Join up will only work if you get the moment exactly right, and tbh, this pony sounds like he's not ready to trust just yet. But he will come round.

smx
 
^^ Exactly what I was going to suggest. I was going to ask if you're catching him every time you go out. If so, no matter what you do, he's going to associate you coming to him being caught and it sounds like he doesn't care for that at all. So change the dynamic.

I've worked with a number of abused/neglected horses and this is what I do initially with every one of them. Just go out to their paddock every day and read or putter around. I let them come to me and when they do, I don't try to catch them. Let him understand that it's not always about that. Eventually, he'll choose to approach you and you can choose to catch him some days, but don't all the time still. Let him understand that it can be pleasant to just come up to you and say hi.

It takes time but it's well worth it. Eventually when they gain confidence, you can take brushes out and groom them in the field. Make it pleasant.
 
Take the day off,do a picanic lunch, bottle of wine, seaside lounger and wait for him to come to you and ignore him, get up to go give him a treat pack up and walk away. don't forget the mags or a book, just let him see you as none life threatening, but as someone nice, works wonders:):)
 
I think that if you can get him into a smallish area, like the 10 m area.
I think that if you are going to use join up, its important to understand how to use your body language. Maybe you should get a pro in to show you how to do it, because its very easy to get it wrong and teach the horse the oposite thing.
I believe if he is as much a problem as he sounds, its best to get in a expert. Maybe kelly marks herslef. She is very good, but may not be local to you. Although im sure she could let you know of a good trainer near you.
I would agree with intouch, but you have to be very good with your body language to make sure you reward the right thing. I could explain in detail what i would do, but there would not be much point without seeing how yourself works with the pony. Like i said, may be best to get in a pro, and to learn what you can from them.
 
When you do catch him, i would bring him in and shut him in a stable. You then become his sole provider with food, water,and companionship. leave a headcollar on him so that when you go in you can bring his head around to you. (so you don't get kicked). Always be quiet and calm when you go into the stable, so you don't frighten him. This may take a few days for him to come round, but ponies need companionship and he should soon turn to you for this.
Once he trusts you, take him out into the yard and start to lead him around, and then back into the stable, do this for a few days, until he is following you on a fairly long rope.You can progress to using a lunge rein for this, not to lunge but to give you a longer rein so that he is coming to you from further away.Once he is following you, and leading properly, you should be able to turn him out, and catch him again.
I have used this method on unhandled foals straight of the forest, and it does work:)
 
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