PONY STOPPING AT JUMPS BUT JUMPS NO PROBLEM AT HOME

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bazpoppy

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My daughter is into 1 day Eventing at pre-training level and her 15 yr old Arab pony does great at dressage and has clear XC rounds but she is getting eliminated in the show jumping everytime.

1. When she first got Mahli in July last year he would complete SJ circuits no problem –might look like he was going to stop at a fill in jump but Abby would encourage him nicely and he would fly over.

2. After 2-3 SJ events he then starting stopping or running out at 1 fill-in jump when at shows but not at home or in training sessions. He would jump some fine but just choose to stop or run out at one fill-in. We put this down to Abby’s inexperience at jumping as she had only just got Mahli (although she had been riding for 4 years) and as she would bring him around and he would fly over the jump the second time.

3. After a further 2 -3 SJ events he continued to stop at at least 1 fill-in jump at shows and became very difficult and Abby would have to fight to get him over and it would usually take 2 attempts.

4. Now he has started stopping as soon as he sees a fill-in jump even if he is 10-15 paces away from it. He just jams on his breaks and then absolutely refuses to go anywhere near it and Abby gets eliminated. This has happened to her in the last 6 events where she has done SJ, and she is getting very disheartened. At event last weekend he stopped at 4 XC jumps and took several attempts to get him over and they were only small jumps. This is so out of character as he usually flies over the XC jumps.
So he is actually getting worse.

We have had no luck rectifying the problem as he jumps fill-ins perfectly at home, at Pony Club and other training sessions, it is just when he goes to a show that he is getting worse and now won’t even go anywhere near them and is starting to do the same with XC jumps.
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What we have done so far to try and rectify the problem:

1. We have lots of different fill-in jumps at the farm that Mahli jumps no problem at all, and we change the fill-in jumps all the time and their angles so they are new and he hasn’t seen them and he may stop on the odd occasion but flies over the next time. He doesn’t seem scared of them at all.

2. We arranged SJ lessons with 2 different coaches as we assumed the problem was Abby’s inexperience and perhaps she wasn’t assisting him to jump as she should. he jumped beautifully over everything at all sessions with both coaches. One coach suggested Abby use a dutch gag and spurs so that Abby could be tougher on Mahli and he didn’t seem to object to the bit and spurs at these the training lessons. However at the next event Abby attended Mahli reared up on her and refused to move when she used her spurs at a jump that he was refusing to go over, so she was eliminated.

3. Our farrier suggested we don’t use spurs as Mahli is an Arab and they can be defiant if you are harsh on them. Our Pony Club Coach suggested Abby stop jumping Mahli so much at home, as he is 15 knows how to jump and was probably bored. As Mahli likes going really fast in XC jumping and also in SJ jumps offs Abby decided to go fast and not slow around the SJ course and then perhaps Mahli would not have time to think about the fill-in and stop.
So we didn’t jump him for 2 weeks before Abby’s next jumping event, and she didn’t wear spurs, and she went a little faster. He was jumping well until he came round the corner and saw the fill-in about 10 paces away, stopped dead in his tracks and Abby fell off and was eliminated. In the next 2 SJ events on the same day he also stopped at fill-ins.

4. We have had the Equine vet check Mahli out last Monday and he said he is in perfect health, nothing wrong with him.

5. We have used snaffle, dutch gag (for more control) and now has a straight bar pelham bit (for more control but not as fierce as a dutch gag) - none of these have made a difference.

Because Mahli jumps so well at home and training sessions and appears to love it we are wondering if he just gets anxious or nervious at shows and that is why he freaks out at jumps that he would just fly over at home.

Has anyone else had a similar problem as we are at our wits end trying to work out what is causing Mahli to do this, and therefore how to solve it.
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Tks Pamela
 
No, does the same whether the ground is wet, dry, slippery, muddy etc. We live in NZ and all events and training are done on normal farm grass paddocks or grassed park areas and our farm where the pony lives is the same. It is such a shame as he is a beautiful jumper, never knocks a pole off and can jump 1.10 and higher easily. Abby only events him at pre-training level which is 85cm jumps and if she does an straight SJ event then max 90cm. Vet said in excellent condition, fit and healthy, did blood tests nothing odd there either.
 
It might be worth getting a professional to jump a class on him. Then you'd eliminate whether or not its due to rider nerves, and they might get a feel for what's going wrong and could help Abby from there?

Tricky one though.
 
Re Calmer - no, however previous owner use to give him magnesium which calms cattle so some horse owners use it to calm active horses but vet said wasn't proven to be effective with horses so we could stop using it which we have done in the past 2 wks. Did occur to us that maybe Mahli is getting anxious so thought we'd see if anyone else had same problem with jumping and was nervousness the cause of their problem.
Re Saddle - had saddle especially fitted by "saddle fitter" when we bought Mahli July 08 as Mahli has short back and bought new Stubbins for him, so should be okay. Tks for the idea though - will get it rechecked.
 
Defo get saddle checked, and if you can by more than one saddler. I say this because three saddlers said the saddle fitted my mare; my mare said it didn't. Short story is that I changed saddles and mare was happy again.

Might be worth trying different calmers. I don't know the exact science behind, but I know Nupafeed calmed my last mare, Big Cob and Little Mare when we moved yards.

Have you tried a back person?
 
Have you had the saddle checked since you bought it in July 08? I'd get it checked asap. I had a new saddle fitted 2.5 months ago and saddler said the horse would change shape and muscle up a lot afterwards so needed checking again in 3-4 months.

After having your saddle done, I'd get a good equine physio out (a proper physio, not a massage therapist or a sports massage person, and not a chiro/oesteo either) to check him over. Vets aren't physio's so it's worth having a physio out.

When all of that has been done, do as someone else suggested and maybe get a pro to ride him at a couple of events to see how he behaves.
 
I had a similar problem with mine when I first got him (4 years ago aged 12), although he isn't 100% all the time he is now much better. I believe his stopping was generally anxiety at shows.

He would also jump fab at home, and having lessons at our local arena was ok. He also did the stopping way before the jump ie refusing to go anywhere near it and would just pick anyone.

He also did this with our RC jumps in the same field ok in training not so when there was then a comp. I don't think he was genuinely 'scared' or a particularly filler rather getting himself stressed and then just picking one, height irrelvant, bigger often better as more poles on top of filler! It took him 12 months to de stress and settle down after the home move.

I can only say what I do with him which generally works, he will jump most things in any field however, one of our local arenas has just got a new set of jumps and because they are not the 'norm' for there they are causing a few issues.

I rarely jump him at home, he is 16 now, knows what he is doing and gets very annoyed with gridwork etc! If I do jump him at home it isn't that big as he can be quite lazy at home anyway. I have lessons on a different horse so I can improve myself without having to over jump him. He has a very varied work load which seems to suit him.


I do wear spurs on him (he had always been ridden in them previously) as he is quite dead off the leg, but TBH they make not a blind bit of difference if he doesn't want to play.

I have toyed in the past with getting someone else to ride him for me but never went down this route for several reasons.

In hindsight I wish I hadn't tried to compete him so soon after I had him, we should have had longer to get to know eachother. Once you have saddle etc checked I would wonder if it might be worth giving yours a couple of months off jumping before reassesing. With my boy we will often have a month or so where we just do dressage and fun rides and then come back to the jumping and he is always better after.
 
How old is Abby? And how big is Mahli?

Maybe you could find a older, very competent child from the local PC and get them to compete on him for a show and see if that will help- my sisrter does something dimilar locally to us... She currently has 2 littleys that she rides to get them going.

One final point, is he taking the piss a tad? My horse is elderly and he does this occasionally. He just stops playing and pays silly buggers. I just get him over another fence then he gets a while off. Mahli just might be very bored...
 
The fact that the problem started after 2-3 events with a new rider suggests that this is almost certainly a rider problem. If he has always been a bit tricky with these types of jumps, once she knew that hes a bit iffy at them probably caused nerves which are affecting the horse's confidence at an already tricky area. As this has now become an established problem, a one off session with another rider might not solve it. Would it be possible for you to train at some of the venues beforehand? If your daughter knows he can do it it may give her some more confidence in the competition environment.

Another potential issue is the fitness of the horse. Are you doing the same level of training at home that the previous owners did? (Not just jumping, but general fittening work?)
After dressage and xc, it could be that he is feeling tired and not particularly keen to jump anyway, and coming up to jumps he doesnt like and which he knows now that your daughter cant make him go over just means that he gives up. If this is the case, increased fittness may help, or adjusting his feed rations (have you cut down his heating feed to try to make him easier for your daughter to handle?)

I would think saddle or back problems etc. are unlikely as he jumps fine at home, unless you have special tack which you use at competions and not in training, in which case I would definitely start practicing with this tack on to see if it is having an effect (even if you have a seperate dressage saddle, it could be causing discomfort early in the day which hasnt cleared by SJ and is causing him to look for reasons to stop). As he jumps fine at home I would also be reluctant to attribute the stopping to boredom, although it does sound like you are doing an awful lot at home for a horse with his experience which could eventually cause problems.

It also sounds like you are taking advice from just about everywhere, and not really sticking out a consistent program for dealing with the problem. Try a few trainers till you find one whose ideas make sense to you, and who your daughter is comfortable with, and give them time to really help you through this problem - it is an established trait now and unlikely to be a quick fix.

As someone suggested above, time off the jumping might help to sort of reset his mind as well, particularly if you could make sure his first time back out was with someone experienced who hadnt had problems with him before. Would your daughter be interested in doing just dressage competions for a bit?

Final point - I think a lot of problems that occur in competition only happen because there is no opportunity to work through them once you are eliminated. If a horse keeps refusing at home, you dont give up and let him rest, you jump over some other things, lower it, take out the scary bits, give him a lead etc. till he understands what is required and that you wont give up. Is there any way you could arange to stay behind after one of the shows you expect to have problems at to school over the competition course after the competition?
 
Once you have eliminated pain as suggested by others, there are a few things I would look at doing. Firstly, as he is stopping 10-15 strides out, I would have the rider ride him forwards. You can stop on the way in to a jump, provided the horse doesn't step backwards, and at 85cm, the horse can jump from a standstill if necessary. I had an older horse who would have 'moments' in the show ring, and I just kept riding him forwards (narrow fences were his 'hey, let's freak out even tho mummy makes me jump them every week so I don't have any excuse' fences). I would ride him on from a standstill, and we have some hysterical photos of us jumping near enough from halt but, after a few idiot sessions, he did settle down and start behaving himself again. I always carry a whip, and will use it behind my leg is they are pratting about (which is why it is important to eliminate pain first).
 
i don't know if this would work tho? my old horse used to nap like this from 10 strides out and you could not get him to go forwards no matter what you tried- leg/spurs/whip etc! he's just rear, spin and try to run backwards- anyway but forwards. the only way i got him better was lots of lessons and lots of clear round jumping where he couldn't get away with it...but ultimately i did sell him it was never much fun not knowing whether he'd be in the mood to jump or not...
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I know what you mean. Mine would rear with me, he scared a lot of people because he did go fully up - however, at the point where we were having issues at the shows, we had 'dealt' with rearing to the point that an arm across his neck and a 'get down now' instruction would get 4 feet back on the floor, and strong leg, backed up by whip, and chances are he would go forwards. When we had issues, I would ask if we could continue the 'problem' fence even tho we were eliminated, and they always said yes, provided we weren't there all day! His issues stemmed from a rider who backed down, if he refused 'the scary fence', he didn't have to do it, if he reared, he got to finish being worked. I just had to eliminate this train of thought - he soon realised that jumping from a nice flowing canter was easier than being made to jump it from a standstill.
 
yeah i think mine had got away with it with old owner too...he did improve massively (i PN evented him successfully) but he always had that backwardness in him so might throw a wobbler at say 1 in 10 outings. i decided life was too short and sold him as a dressage horse which he loves!
 
In all honesty this does sound a little like a rider issue - ie, she has already seen a particular fence as a potential 'problem' so is quite possibly riding totally different to it at en event and the horse is picking up on what she's thinking and is doing the "well if she thinks there's something wrong with it then I am not going near it" reaction.

My horse always has and always does spook at fillers (although he does it anywhere whether at home, in a lesson or at a show) but determind (not forceful) riding is the key really. Yours probably jumps fine at home and in training as you daughter won't feel the same pressure as at an event.

I went through similar with mine, after years of never having a stop we were suddenly getting eliminated and the whole "going showjumping" just stopped being fun. I decided to go back to doing fun sj (ie non-affiliated) events etc, take the pressure off really and it built both mine and my horses confidence and he started jumping much better - i got my faith back in him and vice versa. It may well help to have someone else jump him to see if he does react the same or if, without the rider association he jumps without problem.

a lot of it is about re-training your own brain - stop thinking of what fence is a potential problem.
 
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