Pony Trials

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teddybrowne

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Watching the Pony Trial section at Oasby on Saturday, I couldn't help but wonder what good could result in ponies being pushed to make the time seven sections of horses had struggled to make previously.

I appreciate that these ponies are at the top of their game, but from what I saw, some of the riding fell on the wrong side of reckless. It appears such riding is rewarded with placings, as the tight time looked to give credit to some combinations with poor dressage/sj, but who's riders were prepared to ride flat out.

It won't look good for the sport when a 12 year old ends up seriously injured or worse, tipping up high speed at a 3'6" solid fence.
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And it would be even worse for the child
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I have to confess that I was glad my daughter wasn't doing it - although when she was told that her pony wasn't fast enough for Intro she proved a point by taking him round in a minute under the optimum time!
 

I agree to an extent, but seeing as my friend came 7th after a double clear I think I am bias. She is a fantastic rider and I have no doubt she will have ridden well. She was on the grey with blue colours. Saying that her pony is a speed demon and I don't know if shje had time faults ...
 
Neither 7th places went double clear? No double clears went within the time.

I did not say that all pt riders were dreadful, but that the times set are too fast, and look to encourage reckless riding. The fact that so few made the time shows that many riders have the maturity and ability to ride with sense, but I defiantly saw a few who did not. It only takes one to have a bad accident.
 
i agree, some of the riding was reckless . is it being stressed enough to the pt riders that getting inside the time is not always the most important thing? some of them did look like an accident waiting to happen.
 
I agree with you. Some of the riders go far too fast with little respect for the fences.

I hate it when a time is so tight the jumping and dresage don't count that much but a mini racehorse wins.
 
I think it creates a better competition if the time is " tight " however riders at all levels need to learn about riding in a balance and a rhythmn look at WFP for a great example of xc riding or Jeanette on Over to you ,
I watched some of the youngsters on ponies at Poplar and thought they were very responsible some were not but that is not an exclusive club occupied by 12yo on ponies
 
I have always thought that the time for ponies is ridiculous, but am I right in thinking that this year it has been reduced to Novice speed whereas previously it was Intermediate speed. I could be wrong! Have a look at the photos of them at Oasby, some look very stylish, but more don't!
 
I've always known it to be novice speed too. No matter what is said to the trials kids regarding sensible riding being more important than the time, the bottom line is this; those who ride dangerously and make it inside the time shoot up the placings past kids who have done better dr and sj, and ridden a clear and sensible xc round. (when the time is SO tight)

I'm not suggesting they reduce the time to PN speed, just an achievable novice speed, which doesn't risk lives to make!
 
I was in the Scorers tent on Saturday on Oasby and have to say that the PT's had more faults across the board than the horses and there were also a number of worrying comments on the radio from Control about careless/dangerous riding, in addition to extra comments from fence judges on the score sheets about careless riding and overuse of whip, etc.

Now this is clearly not a sweeping statement about all PT riders but the difference was considerable.
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PC open time is 500m/min.

They have obviously thought about it and reduced the time, I suppose both for safety and to make it level for horses and ponies.

However I can also see the problem. Your pony trials pony should be better than your average PC pony (although looking at PC results it's often the same ponies in both)

Perhaps the answer is more careful training and some sort of briefing, closely monitored warning system for the riders.

Half the time it's because the riders don't know how to ride a tight economical line and go really fast to compensate.
 
I'm actually relieved to hear that MM, at least it is being noticed and commented on. I saw one kid early on thwack her pony a stride out from all but two show jumps!

I know what you are saying Thistle, the time should play a factor - it is as much a part of the sport as the dressage or sj. I just worry that these kids, and their parents who are often egging them on to push for the time - rather than, as you say Thistle, riding tight clean lines - put a higher value on being placed than being safe.
 
It is worth saying that at all pony trials, there are selectors and others like Jonquil, round the course watching, as there are at the show jumping. All the competitors are taken on a course walk with Jonquil and she does carefully explain what is required at each fence and which lines there are.
I am sure that anyone seen to be riding recklessly has no chance of a team place, and after all that's why they are all there.
I'm not sure the speed should be reduced, it is possible to make the time on a good pony safely by riding the correct lines and knowing when to push on and when to go steady.
 
QR- will be interesting to see what happens at Lincoln this weekend. Hopefully, if the system works as it should, the times will be a little more moderate!
 
If you look the time was tight for all novice sections at Oasby! The time wont be changed for Lincoln. As in all events it depends how the course is wheeled as to how easy the time is to get.
Yes i agree some of the PT riding is scary but having looked at entries list i would have questioned if some of the combination's should have been attempting a novice track.
I think it is the pressure of trials/ parents that causes problems
 
Yes the reckless riders may not get the team place, but they still get placed.

It's a good job these kids are on ponies who generally look after their riders. I dread to think what happens when some of them progress to horses. Hopefully the progression is through JRN's etc where they will get a rollicking from the coord if they ever get too fast time pens.
 
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I'm actually relieved to hear that MM, at least it is being noticed and commented on. I saw one kid early on thwack her pony a stride out from all but two show jumps!

I know what you are saying Thistle, the time should play a factor - it is as much a part of the sport as the dressage or sj. I just worry that these kids, and their parents who are often egging them on to push for the time - rather than, as you say Thistle, riding tight clean lines - put a higher value on being placed than being safe.

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That rider was using a saddle cloth saying she was trained by Lionel Dunning.I bet he was proud!!
 
Lil_Ponios_Rock, I'm wondering if your friend's pony is called Bill. If so, we are at the same yard as them and I was also thrilled she came 8th, a very nice jockey indeed!
 
MaryMoo - agree totally that some of those riders shouldn't have been there. However, with such a low percentage making the time, I think it should be recognised that the course was wheeled too tight - like when a showjumping course builder cringes when there are two clears out of 50 entries! If it's too tight for 16.2hh TBs, the 14.2hhers are going to HAVE to ride like crazy to make the time.

Thistle - exactly right! A pony with a placing at a PT increases its value greatly. That's motive enough for alot of these parents to push.

gabanna - lol! It was the girl with the LD saddle cloth, and I did think the same...... the way she rode, verged on slander!
 
Every one must take a step back and remember the purpose of Pony Trials. These are the <u>selection Trials for the European Championships</u> and are meant to test the ponies and riders so that the best team can be selected for the Championship.

Great Britain has lost Medals in the past due to riders accumulating time penalites on the cross, hence why the PT's are pitched at Novice level so that the riders can get used to riding at Championship speed. The selectors are looking for riders to think about the event they are riding at. If no one is getting the time, it is clearly difficult to get, therefore the selectors will have taken this into account and won't be looking for pony riders to be inside the time.

The seletors aren't just looking at who wins a trial, they are looking for those who ride responsibly in a good rhythm. They would not necessarily be looking for riders to go inside the time at the first trial of the season!

There is too much emphasis placed upon winning trials and less on showing the selectors the quality and maturity of their riding.

Riders and Parents must take resopnsibilty for themselve and be sure thay are ready for Pony Trials. There is a lot to be siad for gaining that bit of extra in BE100/BE100 Plus and Pony club events before attempting pony trials.

If any one would like to discuss pony trials in greater depth thay are more than welcome to email me or call me in the office.

Paul Graham - BE Sport Manager
 
Hi Paul, thanks for your input. As I said in my original post I appreciate that these ponies are supposed to be at the top of their game, and indeed the aim of the trials.

However, no matter how much you say the selectors are looking for quality and maturity, the fact remains, there were ponies placed on Saturday, whos riders rode appallingly. You are quite right, there is far too much emphasis placed upon winning, and that coupled with such tight times, appears to be resulting in an accident waiting to happen.
The first pony on course on Saturday took my breath away with the risks the rider took. It was horrible to watch and was followed by some other pretty gut wrenching runs. However, there were also some superb combinations, with riders who showed skill and maturity way beyond their years.

"Riders and Parents must take resopnsibilty for themselve and be sure thay are ready for Pony Trials."
These riders are 12-16yrs old, some of their parents have never ridden, let alone evented. 20-30k buys a trials pony, two pony club level 5 events gets you a ticket to ride in spring trials. The rest is a kids dream of making the team, and naive parents not weighing up the risks. BE must surely take more responsibility than that?

Britain may have lost a few medals due to time pens in the past, but what of the risk of losing a life in the team selection process? I think that will have a far bigger impact on the sport.
 
It is now only 3 pre novice runs ,with some exceptions made if the pony has previously done trials, which possibly explains the large price tags. This fast tracks riders who have not got the experience or ability to ride the more technical courses safely and within the time, just the nerve to go too fast and rely on the pony to get them round. As you say teddybrowne, an accident waiting to happen, which with the current debates about safety issues I find difficult to understand why BE are allowing this to happen. Are they actually aware of how badly some of these children ride xc?
 
I don't event but have read this with interesat.

Agree completely with what Paul123 is saying re team selection BUT - at the end of the day, when winning PT's increases a ponies value (and the riders ability to brag about it!
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) this will continue!

Agree with the others, could it not be run in an optimum time format or something to encourage safe riding or something - surely losing a life is more important to winning medals
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(as I said I don't event so haven't a clue if this is feasible)
 
I never had the opportunity to do Pony Trials having been on horses since I was 11. I also didn't get into BE early enough to do PT's - my parents were very strict in the fact that I had to be competing regularly and with double clears at pony club open before registering BE - even though as a U16 I would have to start at 90cm.

I know of somebody who has a 15hh horse, who did the Novice Challenge last year. She didn't complete on a DC [she had a fall and a stop XC, and a pole or two SJ] yet this year she is talking about becoming a full member of BE as she's competing at "intro height". Pony clubbers are competing successfully at 90cm PC, and then going BE, having no experience at the higher levels. They then get their two double clears, and think "lets have a crack at PN" - not having done PC L4 [PN equiv.]

I do NOT agree with the fact that you can start BE in the year of your 12th birthday - a child with a 31st Dec B'day could spend a full season eventing at 11, and do PN all season. What can PC not offer an 11 year old child? Why at 11 do they feel the need to affiliate and do PN when PC can offer them the opportunity to compete at that level, ride in teams, and qualify for championships where everyone is the same-ish age and on a level playing field? [Which depsite what BE say is not always the case at intro / PN ]

I think the fast track system is NOT a good idea either - it takes months for a partnership to fully form between horse and rider, and for the rider to fully understand the horse. Surely the top dogs at BE know this? So why can people be fast tracked on an ex FEI pony they've had 8wks, if they've done 2 intro's on another pony that they'd had for years? [If that makes sense?] I do think that because our previous teams of Gina, Althea Bleakman, SMD, Georgie Spence, etc have done so well, it means BE are eager to keep the standards up. However, they need to accept that a v small % of the riders this year have never done novice, let alone PT's [as far as I know] so the standard is going to be considerably lower than previous years. They need to give the new crop chance for them to get to grips with the differences.

I agree with TB about buying your way on to teams - I've seen it happen on more than 1 occasion, and I think it's very easy to do at the lower team levels [ie ponies and juniors compared to seniors].
 
I'd heard that the kids were told they would be told off for going too fast so they are telling the kids......

But yes I don't think the time should be so fast... ok maybe at the final trials but the early ones it would be nice to be having the younger ones that have not done novice before learning to come in a balance controlled rhythm over big fences.... to be honest the time side of Eventing really put me off doing the sport and I became a watcher and not a doer in my old age!!!! but its all in the training and it has to be that that is increaced to help the the kids but you can see why they do it with the need to do well to move on to weston etc pushes the kids to go fast.

So my point is umm yes I don't think i have one really
 
Well whatever the kids were told and whoever told them, with regards speed prior to Oasby, many did not listen. Many were clearly putting being placed above all else, and to be honest, the age and experience of some of these kids, I'm not surprised.

I don't think the speed should be reduced, but I do think it shouldn't be so tight. It should be achievable with smart, confident riding, using tight clean lines. The time on Sat encouraged fast unbalanced approaches to some pretty big fences.

Perhaps we should take a leaf out of the BSJAs book, and put those on a warning in print, instead of using the polite and discreet Event Incident Log!
 
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