Pony unsafe on roads after RTA, experiences welcome

[millikins]

Last Oct, our Dales mare was involved in a nasty road accident. Daughter had used neighbour's school, walking home quietly and hit from behind by a driver blinded by sunlight. Despite over 1/4 mile of straight road, she hadn't slowed or moved away from the kerb and hit pony at about 40 mph with her wing mirror. Reaction from horse caused rider to fall and she was dragged, their guardian angel must have been on double pay as neither sustained lasting physical injury. But the previously bombproof pony is now terrified of traffic behind or alongside her.
She was broken to drive last summer, did very well and went back to breaker before Christmas, his assessment is that she is now unsafe and if pushed too far would bolt.
We've now put her on full livery for 2 months, she's been there about 5 weeks, this yard has a back gate direct onto bridleway and front gate onto residential road. This is a nice wide road, dead end to traffic at the top and used by residents and dog walkers, all used to meeting horses, also wide verge and driveways as refuges. Pony improved a lot for about 3 weeks but has now plateaued, she remains very anxious about vehicles behind or overtaking, fine with parked or oncoming traffic. I think she's probably only tolerating this as she trusts my daughter.
Anyone got a horse through this? Time not an issue but can't afford full livery after this trial, when she comes home anything she does means going out of my yard onto a narrow road with no pull in places. I don't think she'll ever drive again but really hope we can get her riding out.
Tx in advance, sorry it's a long post.

 

[Barton Bounty]

I would say practice is key, its going to take lots of it with a confident rider to get her through it. I would give her a couple of calming cookies and practice regularly and consistently. Are you able to box her somewhere? Like to a quiet car park where you can ride as a driver you know can practice with you?

 

[nagblagger]

If the car driver was in the wrong could you claim of his insurance for an intense course with someone like Richard Maxwell?

 

[millikins]

If the car driver was in the wrong could you claim of his insurance for an intense course with someone like Richard Maxwell?

The driver has been fined and charged with dwdcaa. There is an insurance claim going through, it's difficult as I'm not sure what will be allowable as a claim, I've paid the full livery and driving assessment up front, I really wouldn't want to rack up several thousand in costs and insurance say "nah".

 

[millikins]

I would say practice is key, its going to take lots of it with a confident rider to get her through it. I would give her a couple of calming cookies and practice regularly and consistently. Are you able to box her somewhere? Like to a quiet car park where you can ride as a driver you know can practice with you?

Yes, I can drive and daughter ride, just disappointed that she's sort of stuck at the same level for about 2 weeks now.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Yes, I can drive and daughter ride, just disappointed that she's sort of stuck at the same level for about 2 weeks now.

It will come, just keep at it x

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I have a family member who was in a catastrophic traffic accident with one of their driving horses, the horse escaped with minor injuries after galloping flat out across roads and fields dragging half a carriage behind it as it headed for home as the crow flies. My relative unfortunately wasn't quite so lucky but eventually recovered. The poor horse was terrified of ALL traffic thereafter, ridden or driven. The risk was just too high. They had him gelded and the horse went on permanent loan to a friend on a large estate that understood the horse would never be safe again in traffic, but it was successfully show jumped and had a wonderful time purely hacking XC at home with his new loaner.

I also had a driving mare that was involved in a shunting accident on the road, her carriage pair was killed. I only ever hacked her out in very safe off road settings, again the risk of road work was too high. I would not even attempt to rehabilitate a horse to use roads after serious incidents like that.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Has she been going out with another horse? If not, I would try that. A completely bombproof horse that will ride behind/alongside as necessary should make a big difference. My old Clydesdale mare once took her own frightened of big traffic friend, a pony and another Clydesdale who wasn't traffic proof past a bus on a narrow road. We had just happened to meet the other 2 horses as we saw the bus approaching and the rider asked for help.

 

[paddy555]

I also had a driving mare that was involved in a shunting accident on the road, her carriage pair was killed. I only ever hacked her out in very safe off road settings, again the risk of road work was too high. I would not even attempt to rehabilitate a horse to use roads after serious incidents like that.

for me the risk would be too high. However confident the rider the horse's memory is so powerful.

Poor mare.

wrt to the insurance aspect what about no fee/no win.

 

[eahotson]

I have a family member who was in a catastrophic traffic accident with one of their driving horses, the horse escaped with minor injuries after galloping flat out across roads and fields dragging half a carriage behind it as it headed for home as the crow flies. My relative unfortunately wasn't quite so lucky but eventually recovered. The poor horse was terrified of ALL traffic thereafter, ridden or driven. The risk was just too high. They had him gelded and the horse went on permanent loan to a friend on a large estate that understood the horse would never be safe again in traffic, but it was successfully show jumped and had a wonderful time purely hacking XC at home with his new loaner.

I also had a driving mare that was involved in a shunting accident on the road, her carriage pair was killed. I only ever hacked her out in very safe off road settings, again the risk of road work was too high. I would not even attempt to rehabilitate a horse to use roads after serious incidents like that.

Agree.

 

[Orangehorse]

I doubt it. I had a lovely pony on loan for my daughter. She was just the best Pony Club pony, had a hare get up between her legs and she didn't turn a hair, walked up a field as other ponies galloped past her.

The owners couldn't sell her as they couldn't say she was quiet in traffic, after having been hit by a horsebox, of all things, going to a nearby competition venue. We live on a farm, she walked by farm trailers, tractors and machinery every day. We took her out on the roads, but they were much quieter than now. She could just about cope with a car, but anything larger, or towing a trailer she wanted to spin and bolt. She could never be sold as quiet to ride on the roads.

The owner managed to find her a nice home right in the middle of the countryside where there was virtually no traffic, in those days and we heard that she was a terrific hunting pony.

Your pony would probably improve with a larger quiet companion but it might never recover.

Just as an aside, horses don't forget. I was once carrying a rug towards my horse in the field, which I did every evening. Once I stepped on the rug and went splat, right by the gate where the horse was waiting. She was horrified. And she never forgot. Every time from then on when I approached the gate and she was standing behind it, she was wary and waiting for me to fall at her feet again. She never truly got over it.

 

[SEL]

I was on livery with a horse that had been clipped by a car that wouldn't wait crossing a single track bridge.

The owner rarely hacked him out and it was only if there was a group of us and he could go mid group. He loved his jumping so she didn't push the hacking although I understand he was great pre accident

I'm sorry this happened to your daughter and her pony - the penalties for the driver just seem insignificant really.

 

[maya2008]

I can only tell you my experience…

I met a 4 year old pony, many years ago, who had lost a herdmate to an RTA on the New Forest before going through the sales. She had not been handled much except for catching since then. Like all semi-feral ponies, her relaxation around people responded well to daily exposure, and she was a sweet, if slightly cheeky pony. Bold as brass away from cars, confident in herself and in the herd.

So then, many years after the initial bad experience with cars, she was backed by her owner (a professional) and taken out to get used to the world in the usual way. It soon became apparent that cars were a giant issue. And by giant, I mean it took forever to even get past a parked one with the engine off. Pro decided she was too much work and would never be safe for a child, so gave her to me for meat money when I expressed an interest in her as a companion for my mare.

With the help of friends, and my then boyfriend (now husband!) we slowly desensitised her to traffic. It took months for her to be calm with parked cars, then we got people on the yard to leave theirs running while I walked her past, then my OH drove slowly…so slowly up and down the yard, over and over, day after day until she was no longer shaking in fear and trying to run.

Then we ventured out on the roads. We did this in a group, so there was a pony ahead of me, one behind and one beside me. That way she always felt there was someone to protect her, and it helped with the running off! My best friend rode at the front of all this, flagged down the cars and made sure they passed us slowly. It took a whole summer to go from that set-up to being able to go out with two other horses and just hide in a gateway with one between us and the car when we saw one. We still hadn’t gone anywhere there was anything bigger than a car at this point, and I was still wearing a back protector to ride.

We moved to a yard on a farm with access to hacking that involved only crossing one road, and plenty of exposure to farm vehicles in her field for hay bale deliveries etc and outside it as they moved around the farm. That helped - her work was fun, and the desensitising happened naturally. By the time she was six, we had moved to a different town and there was more roadwork. She was a star - I could hack out with only one other, hiding in gateways and spinning her if she was scared, so she could meet her need to run without putting us both in danger. I had a few hairy moments there but only one panicked run.

She hacked out with her teen sharers plenty, but with me only, and they’d swap horses with me for the roadwork, so I could ride her and the teen got my bombproof TB. On a quiet road she was fine, but there’s always the unexpected and I never wanted to risk it.

 

[meleeka]

I agree with those that say that time is the only thing that might sort it. If it were me I’d enquire with the insurance company about making a claim, for rehab at the very least, or ultimately loss of use.

It is a lot to ask of a horse I think. Your daughter can weigh up the risk when a car comes past, knowing that most drivers don’t want to plough into her. The horse can’t do that. I think professional help will be essential, which ought to be down to the insurance company to pay for.

 

[gallopingby]

The driver has been fined and charged with dwdcaa. There is an insurance claim going through, it's difficult as I'm not sure what will be allowable as a claim, I've paid the full livery and driving assessment up front, I really wouldn't want to rack up several thousand in costs and insurance say "nah".

Agree it’s difficult and you don’t want to be subjected to a large bill but it’s important that you are using an equine experienced law firm not just any old local family friendly firm. The fact that the driver has been charged should help, you need to be very clear about what you want in order for things to be as they were, not excessively so but just exactly as they were, so this should include an attempt to rehab the horse, however you’ll have to accept this might not happen especially the driving element, in which case l‘d be looking at a yard / home with off road hacking / competitions etc but also your solicitor should be able to advise on claiming for another pony able to do the things you were previously able to do. This is why you require a specialist, the BHS may be able to advise.

 

[Nudibranch]

Ah what a shame. And a Dales too!
I would imagine a lot of repetition over a long, long time would be the way forward. If it were me I'd be out on long reins, with a lead on foot or mounted alongside to start with. I think the Richard Maxwell (or similar) is a good idea as well.
I had (have) a Sec A who possibly had some kind of accident or traffic related issue in the past. I don't actually know if/what happened but it was beyond normal. I spent hours, days, weeks, months doing all the right things but he was never 100% near vehicles. Then he bolted in harness (just harness fortunately - no vehicle) so I called it a day. He is now on permanent loan to a friend who married into serious money, and lives his best life as a lead rein and general kids plaything on a huge estate with acres of parkland and loads of equine friends, so he never needs to see traffic.
I hope she settles in time. Fingers crossed.

 

[millikins]

Thank you all for your replies. You have given me some things to think about. I think driving's ruined, I can try in the safety of home if I buy a swingle tree and try her with the harrow, I wouldn't want to be attached to her in a cart right now.
Daughter found a solicitor, no win no fee but if possible I think it would be a good idea to swap to a specialist equine one, this company don't seem to understand what we are saying.
Hadn't thought of calming cookies, certainly worth a try and I intend to buy some ear plugs, we tried bandages but they fell out.
It's a problem at the moment that we have nothing for her to hack out with, my lovely old connie was pts in Feb and the other one's on loan as didn't anticipate rapid decline of the old boy though have to say company didn't make much difference when we first had her and she had an Olympic level of napping, I can go on foot though.
I own my yard so moving isn't an option, though we were thinking of it (for other reasons including increased traffic) in a couple of years. If she does nothing it won't matter for now bar a tendency to get very fat very easily.
Sadly I think we may end up rehoming her, it's in her favour that she's a Dales, lots of their fans seem to be up North with more space. She'd always have value as a broodmare, but don't think motherhood was her favourite thing

 

[Zoeypxo]

We had a horse who had a rta , tried everything to get him hacking again but was simply too dangerous.
We sold him to a RS who had private woodland hacking - he was great to school and jump and could ride off road no problem. They still have him and he’s doing well.

 

[PeterNatt]

You need to get the advice of a specialist Equine Solicitor and below are the names and contact details of some.

Helen Niebuhr
Darbys Solicitors
52 New Inn Hall Street
Oxford
OX1 2QD
Tel: 01865 811 7000
01865 811712
Fax: 01865 811 777
www.equine-law.net
E: equine@darbys.co.uk

Jaqcui Fulton Equine Law
Tel: 0121 308 5915
jf@equinelawuk.co.uk
www.equinelawuk.co.uk

Hannah Campbell
Tel: 01446 794196
www.horsesolicitor.co.uk
info@horse solicitor

Alexandra Agnew
Mischcon de Reya
Africa House
70 Kingsway
London
WC2B 6AH
Tel: 020 3321 7000

Jacqui Dark (Nee Fulton)
Equine Law Firm
The office
Home Farm Cottage
Kiddington
Oxfordshire
OX20 1BY
Tel: 0121 308 3132
E: jd@equinelawuk.co.uk

Deborah Hargreaves
Edmondson Hall Solicitors and Sports Lawyers
25 Exeter Road
Newmarket
Suffolk
CB8 8AR
Tel: 01638 560556
Tel: 01638 564483
E: solicitors@edmondsonhall.com
E: ah@edmondsonhall.com
www.edmondsonhall.com/page/1r6ef/Home/partner.html

Elizabeth Simpson Senior Solicitor at law firm Andrew M Jackson
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk
enquiries@andrewjackson.co.uk

David Forbes or Belinda Walkinshaw
Pickworths Solicitors
6 Victoria Street
St Albans
Hertfordshire
AL1 3JB
01727 844511

Mark de-villamar Roberts
Langleys Solicitors Equine Law Group
Tel: 01904 683051
E: mark.Roberts@langleys.com
www.equinelawyers.co.uk

Elizabeth Simpson
Senior Solicitor
Andrew Jackson
Yorkshire
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk

Richmond Solicitors
13-15 High Street
Keynsham
Bristol
BS31 1DP
Tel: 0117 986 9555
Fax: 0117 986 8680
enquiries@richmonssolicitorsco.uk

Jacqui Fulton
Giselle Robinson Solicitors

Inderjit Gill
Jacksons Specialist Equine Solicitor

Knights Solicitors
Tunbridge Wells
Tel: 01892 537311
www.knights-solicitors.co.uk

Horse Solicitor
Tel: 01446 794 196
info@horsesolicitor.co.uk
www.horsesolicitor.com

Hannah Bradley
Setfords
74 North Street
Guildford
Surrey
GU1 4AW
Tel: 020 3829 5557
E: info@setfords.co.uk

Mary Ann Reay Charles or Chris Shaw
Shaw and Co Solicitors
Equine Law Specialists
Tel: 0800 019 1248
info@shawandco.com
www.shawandco.com

 

[Chuffy99]

We were driving and a chap with the sun in his eyes drove in the back of us at 40 mph. We all cannoned into my two ponies being ridden ahead of us who fell and got up and bolted, both shown, both scarred knees
We had a good solicitor, driving pony never came right, ridden Sec A could never bear traffic up behind him again
Solicitor went to town, was horse savvy and we got virtually everything we went for, LOU on the ponies, loss of earnings, the trap which was metal and saved our lives probably, ponies professionally assessed.
our driver wasn’t charged so you have a better case than us but get a good horsey solicitor
Ten years later it happened again and the claim was even bigger but this time pony wasn’t hurt but I was, payout bought my horsebox.

 

[millikins]

This is all rather disheartening but not unexpected. Peter's list (thank you) includes a Guildford firm which is just down the road so will contact them.

 

[Red-1]

Yes, I know it can be done. I have done it several times, both with simply traffic shy horses and those who have been in an accident.

But, 2 weeks is nothing in the scheme of things.

You would be talking years of careful increasing exposure, using a companion and experienced outrider, horsebox to get to various places appropriate to level of exposure, pretty much daily training. It is an enormous undertaking.

The training would be more £ than the cost of the horse.

I would get an equine solicitor. It isn't just the cost of the training, it is the LOU in the intervening years. Plus, they are animals so no guarantee of success anyway.

 

[Maxidoodle]

I’m sorry to hear about this. I echo everyone else in that you need a specialist equine solicitor to deal with it. You definitely need someone like Richard Maxwell to help.

 

[rabatsa]

The driving pony I was driving that almost had its nose taken off by an artic wagon was never safe with traffic coming up from behind again.

Fortunately she was a brilliant RDA pony and was able to be driven on private estate tracks doing RDA. She was also used as a ridden RDA pony but never out on the roads.

 

[sbloom]

I've not read responses but if you want to add a more horse centred approach than many training yards would take have a look at Felicity Davies' latest online course, it's about horses being fine in some surroundings and not in others. I would have a chat with her to see if it's appropriate, there will be other professionals who can help you with this from a behavioural approach rather than simple acclimatisation. The pony may be too seriously affected by it, bit this is an approach that's worth looking at, especially if you can find someone hands on too. There are new generations of behavioural experts who would be my preference to a lot of the old guard.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

2 weeks is not long but one of my horses has never really been great with any kind of vehicle, I've tried lots of things over the years and he is marginally better but he can just decide thats it and spin and panic, so I've kind of just accepted his never going to be OK with traffic so I don't do much road work with him his 19 and his not going to change now.

 

[scruffyponies]

One of mine was nearly killed 10 years ago. His shoulder was smashed open something horrible. Wasn't the driver's fault, as the horse got out onto the road it was dark, and pony is a blood-bay, so invisible on an unlit 60mph road.

Pony's character is bolder and more thoughtful than most (welsh x hackney). Our rehab, just because it's what we do, has been lots of road hacking in a group of very confident ponies. He's a bit 'special', and it has taken years to regain full function and rebuild the muscle, but he's perfectly safe in traffic.

I don't think he ever got it into his head that the vehicles were a danger to him; maybe because it happened at night.

 

[emilylou]

I would aim to claim for loss of use to gain funds for a replacement pony for your daughter as horse can no longer do intended job. I wouldn't trust the horse in traffic again, you can rehab to an extent but I doubt will ever be truly safe on the roads after that.
I was in a nasty carriage accident, horse ended up over the top of the car then bolted with carriage attached and in pieces. Was previously bombproof but was never okay on the roads after that and is now retired. Its a real shame but just not worth the risk of another accident.

 

[holeymoley]

I really don't think the horse will ever get over that, unfortunately. If it was mine, who I've had for nearly 20 years and is safe on the road, I don't think he would ever get over an incident like that, I don't think I would fully trust him on the roads not to panic (righty so) and not do anything even months/years down the line even if he did regain confidence.

Horse's generally figure that traffic is fine- it doesn't harm them. This poor soul has been harmed by a car and an incident no matter how small and innocent could potentially trigger that memory.

 

[SDMabel]

I think it depends on the pony, at a previous job we had a Welsh sect D that had a van driver literally plough round a bend into his backside, pony ended up sat on bonnet of van and had damage to his hocks. Once fully healed we started roadwork with him, in a group where we could box him if needs be. All the other horses were very sensible types and within a few weeks we reduced it to going out with one buddy, him on the inside, then swapping him to the outside and finally hacking alone. It wasn't the quickest process but we made sure to go at his pace and there was set backs along the way (drivers coming at us too quick behind etc) but eventually he was back to his normal sturdy in traffic self.

The other case was a young Newforest pony that was grazing the Newforest and was involved in an accident alongside other ponies. She never came right in traffic, we tried the above process with her, in-hand walking, she would literally sit down with fear. We never did get her to come right, she was fab in the fields and in the school.