Pony who hates being groomed - Help

[mossyjo]

Hi I'm a newbie to the forum & am having a problem with a Dartmoor pony we've got. (hope this is the right place to post!)

We have had the pony for about 5 months he's a first pony for my daughters, he's only 4 but is a cracking pony in every way except he HATES being groomed & will bite, kick & do anything to get you away, when we first got him he wasn't too bad it's progressively got worse, I can't let the girl's get near him to groom him.

I've been bought up with racehorses & the last pony I had was a 14.3 cob who thought she was a racehorse, so I've never had to deal with these little ponies! I've tried the usual abruptly telling him no & a poke in the chest etc but so far nothing has worked.
At the moment I'd take a 17hh TB over a pony any day!!

Has anyone got any ideas?

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Have you tried different brushes? Some hate to be tickled, others hate stiffer brushes or too forceful grooming. Some ponies (I have Exmoors) sometimes don't see why they should eg have their feet picked out but they do let you do it. He's only 4, what had he done before you got him?

eta whats he being fed, if anything?

 

[mossyjo]

I've tried every brush I own on him, I tried a soft mitt & Dandy & everything in between, he doesn't seem to like anything, he's not too bad on the neck but everywhere else is a no, no.
He's literally been broken in a racing yard & had been ridden for about 3 months before we got him (It's my families yard, so he hasn't been mistreated in anyway) they'd had him since a foal. Food wise he doesn't have anything except soaked hay & 2 hours in a bare paddock, as we've had seriously weight issues with him (that's a whole other story!)

 

[Spreebok]

Is he only getting 2 hours of turnout? Or is he turned out with an additional 2 hours in the bare paddock?

 

[Annagain]

Mine is the same. I use a rubber grooming mitten like this http://www.rideaway.co.uk/SHIRES-WONDER-GROOMING-GLOVE. He just about tolerates it, but I use my hand around his ears as I still can't get the mitten on those.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I'm not suggesting he's been mistreated he's a pony, its sometimes much harder to work out why they are being ornery! did he have much handling before he was backed? Is he only having soaked hay and a bare paddock-maybe he's deficient in something? I hear you with the weight issues and mine are still having salt, minerals in a small timothy chop feed.

my ponies will gladly be stabled overnight and both have done short stints of box rest for various reasons. They are less tolerant of being stabled than my horses were/have been though. If I were to keep them in longer,unless in very hard work, they would have less patience for other stuff. So they get plenty of turnout in company (I am not saying yours does not, I dont know). It might just be that he needs progressive, firm but fair desensitisation. Is he OK to be ridden?

 

[mossyjo]

He's just getting the 2 hours out, he's stabled but has got a pen so can get outside, just with no grass, his weight has been a serious issue & we had to get the vet out who advised no grass at all, but I'm soft so am letting him have 2 hours.
I've got a similar mitt, but he's still not happy, his head is actually the easiest place to brush as he doesn't mind so much.
I'm just at a loss, I really think it would benefit the girl's (& him) if they could get close enough to groom him & bond a bit more.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

put him out with company! muzzle him if needs be and if he needs weight off, ride and lead. Bonding with the girls can come later when he's happier, the pony is four and needs to play with others the same age-he is not a TB in training. My 6yo pony and 4yo horse play constantly.

 

[Speedyfluff]

Food wise he doesn't have anything except soaked hay & 2 hours in a bare paddock, as we've had seriously weight issues with him (that's a whole other story!)

My very first thought when I read your original post was that he probably has gastric ulcers. Now I have read what you have written above I am even more sure that this is the problem. Having his food restricted could have resulted in these ulcers forming. I would get the vet and have him scoped. Is he insured? Gastoguard is the only treatment and it's expensive. There are cheaper sources of omeprazole (the active ingredient) online.

 

[mossyjo]

I know you weren't suggesting any mistreatment, although I did see quite a few ponies when I was looking who I though had issues because the way they were being handled/treated!

Previously (before the weight issues) he was in a field with another horse, but the field was 17 acres & I couldn't fence a bit off for him, so he's now been moved to another paddock, (it's times like this I wish I had my own land & not livery!) He can still see the other horse from his pen (It's only about 15 meters away from the field)But we had grooming issued before he was moved.

Maybe it is just 'him' & he doesn't see the need to be brushed!

 

[sunnyone]

I have a Spanish horse who is a bit like this. Absolutely perfect with rugs, mane and tail but has taken a dislike to being groomed round her back and legs.
The best brush I have found for her is a human back brush I.e. with a long handle between my hand and the brush. Superdrug have a wooden version with brush one side and massager the other. Sorry can't remember the price but under a tenner.

The mare seems to like both sides and if she does dance around I have a fraction of a second longer to move away too.

 

[mossyjo]

put him out with company! muzzle him if needs be and if he needs weight off, ride and lead. Bonding with the girls can come later when he's happier, the pony is four and needs to play with others the same age-he is not a TB in training. My 6yo pony and 4yo horse play constantly.

I wish I could at the moment it's not possible, I'm getting an ex racer next month, he's only 7 & I'm hoping he'll be able to be in with the pony to give him some company, unfortunately the YO has her own strong opinons on things & doesn't want an electric fence in the field with her 30 yr old horse.

 

[mossyjo]

My very first thought when I read your original post was that he probably has gastric ulcers. Now I have read what you have written above I am even more sure that this is the problem. Having his food restricted could have resulted in these ulcers forming. I would get the vet and have him scoped. Is he insured? Gastoguard is the only treatment and it's expensive. There are cheaper sources of omeprazole (the active ingredient) online.

That's interesting, I hadn't thought of that. I'll have to talk to my SM as when it comes to hefty vet bills he's still her pony! I'll take a look at omeprazole online.

 

[Makemineacob]

put him out with company! muzzle him if needs be and if he needs weight off, ride and lead. Bonding with the girls can come later when he's happier, the pony is four and needs to play with others the same age-he is not a TB in training. My 6yo pony and 4yo horse play constantly.

This exactly!

We had very similar issues with one of our tiny tots, he came to us having been kept on his own for 8 years (petting farm), he would bite and kick when being groomed no matter what I did, tried every brush and even just hands and he reacted the same. Once he was introduced carefully to our others he started to play constantly with them and being on with others has taught him his place in the herd and he is now pretty much perfect to groom.

 

[mossyjo]

I've also tried muzzles on him, on their own, under a head collar & within 10 minutes he's got it off. I'll take a look at the hairbrush at the moment I'll try anything, his winter coats coming through & he's starting to look like a gruffalo!

On a side note, has anyone ever used Happyhooves (or similar) feed, I'm thinking now he's getting some half serious exercise & still only limited grazing & soaked hay, he could have a scoop of that a day?

Thanks for all your help

 

[MotherOfChickens]

re muzzles-you can either plait them in or duct tape around the velcro breaking point (it still works as a breaking point but they can't rub the velcro undone, if its plaited in its more difficult to get the top strap over one ear).


feed wise-there are better feeds than Happyhoof tbh, I feed timothy chop, a tiny number of either high fibre nuggets or pony nuts and Pro Hoof and salt. If he's in decent work then up his hay or give him a portion unsoaked? Maybe even try giving him some before you do anything with him?

 

[mossyjo]

re muzzles-you can either plait them in or duct tape around the velcro breaking point (it still works as a breaking point but they can't rub the velcro undone, if its plaited in its more difficult to get the top strap over one ear).


feed wise-there are better feeds than Happyhoof tbh, I feed timothy chop, a tiny number of either high fibre nuggets or pony nuts and Pro Hoof and salt. If he's in decent work then up his hay or give him a portion unsoaked? Maybe even try giving him some before you do anything with him?

I've never tried Timothy chop, he was having pony nut's before the weight problem.

I also was just reading about the ulcers & TBH the symptoms are very much like his, not just the grooming issue but pretty much all the others, so I think I'll have to take a closer look at that.

Thanks again for all the replies

 

[fatpiggy]

I've never tried Timothy chop, he was having pony nut's before the weight problem.

I also was just reading about the ulcers & TBH the symptoms are very much like his, not just the grooming issue but pretty much all the others, so I think I'll have to take a closer look at that.

Thanks again for all the replies

Do you mean pony nuts or high fibre nuts? I wouldn't be giving a young native anything except hay in a tiny holed net and a few high fibre nuts plus plenty of fresh air. Any chance you could move as TBH your present yard doesn't seem very suitable, and less so if you have an ex-racer coming shortly?

 

[calmgirl]

Can you tie him up in the stable and run your hands over him a little every day? Then give him his net? Repeat repeat repeat once or twice a day. Move to a cloth then a mitt etc
I'd try wearing him down with small steps and consistency.

I did this with mine to be able to trim her fetlocks. Looking back it didn't take long just doing it regularly.

 

[mossyjo]

Do you mean pony nuts or high fibre nuts? I wouldn't be giving a young native anything except hay in a tiny holed net and a few high fibre nuts plus plenty of fresh air. Any chance you could move as TBH your present yard doesn't seem very suitable, and less so if you have an ex-racer coming shortly?

They were High fibre nuts, in very small amounts. We do use a small hole haynet, otherwise it would all be gone in about 5 minutes!

As for moving, I just wish there was somewhere else suitable near me, there just isn't, I may have made the YO sound worse than she is, but she's very set in her ways & has a small amount of horse knowledge, which is dangerous! Plenty of people have been here before me & only managed about 6 months before they've had to leave as they can't put up with her! She's already made her feelings known regarding the Ex racer, outside all winter with maybe a new zealand rug in really bad weather, she'll have shock coming! I just tend to nod & agree then do what I think is right!

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I've never tried Timothy chop, he was having pony nut's before the weight problem.

I also was just reading about the ulcers & TBH the symptoms are very much like his, not just the grooming issue but pretty much all the others, so I think I'll have to take a closer look at that.

Thanks again for all the replies

when I say feed nuts, I literally mean a few-as many as I can hold in one hand and the same with the chop. My ponies don't get anything like eg 1/4 or 1/2 stubbs scoop even in winter when they are out on a hill unrugged. For some reason,many barefoot horses do well on bog standard leisure/pony nuts which is why I mentioned them and it gives the feed a bit of interest. Most high fibre nuts aren't a complete feed afaik (but mine will sell their souls for them!).

Good luck, I don't think your set up is good for him whether he has ulcers or not tbh but hindsight and all that. In handling him now I would give hay for an hour beforehand, might make him a bit more biddable but I wouldn't be doing bare minimum grooming wise, he's a pony, he's allowed to be hairy!

 

[mossyjo]

when I say feed nuts, I literally mean a few-as many as I can hold in one hand and the same with the chop. My ponies don't get anything like eg 1/4 or 1/2 stubbs scoop even in winter when they are out on a hill unrugged. For some reason,many barefoot horses do well on bog standard leisure/pony nuts which is why I mentioned them and it gives the feed a bit of interest. Most high fibre nuts aren't a complete feed afaik (but mine will sell their souls for them!).

Good luck, I don't think your set up is good for him whether he has ulcers or not tbh but hindsight and all that. In handling him now I would give hay for an hour beforehand, might make him a bit more biddable but I wouldn't be doing bare minimum grooming wise, he's a pony, he's allowed to be hairy!

So would you never clip a pony in winter? (Trace clip or alike) I was hoping to get him out hunting a few times, just lead rein to get him used to it. obviously if I can get the grooming issues under control, if I can't get a brush near him I don't think clippers would go down to well!

 

[MotherOfChickens]

if he's in hard enough work then of course I would rug and clip but if hunting means on a lead rein walking and trotting then no, sorry I wouldn't unless it was the smallest of bib clips. Nor would I be rugging him unless to keep him clean before work or a wicking rug to wear if he gets wet/sweaty during work.


eta my ponies aren't clipped in winter because they don't work hard enough and because their own weatherproofing is better than I can buy for them! Its also a good time to get the summer weight off them, if they've put it on.

 

[mossyjo]

if he's in hard enough work then of course I would rug and clip but if hunting means on a lead rein walking and trotting then no, sorry I wouldn't unless it was the smallest of bib clips. Nor would I be rugging him unless to keep him clean before work or a wicking rug to wear if he gets wet/sweaty during work.


eta my ponies aren't clipped in winter because they don't work hard enough and because their own weatherproofing is better than I can buy for them! Its also a good time to get the summer weight off them, if they've put it on.

Thanks, as I said in my first post, this is the first small pony I've had, my cob was always full clipped but she did hunt 3 times a week & compete most weekends, so a totally different story!

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Thanks, as I said in my first post, this is the first small pony I've had, my cob was always full clipped but she did hunt 3 times a week & compete most weekends, so a totally different story!

small ponies can be a learning curve metabolically speaking! Most natives are incredibly tough but they still need constant amounts of fibre. Yours may have ulcers, he may not but my younger one especially does get a little fractious/uptight if he doesnt get alot of turn out for some reason-even in horrific weather or when he injured his eyelid earlier this year. Even the 21yo comes out of his box like a racehorse in the winter and has been known to squeal!

 

[3OldPonies]

As for moving, I just wish there was somewhere else suitable near me, there just isn't, I may have made the YO sound worse than she is, but she's very set in her ways & has a small amount of horse knowledge, which is dangerous! Plenty of people have been here before me & only managed about 6 months before they've had to leave as they can't put up with her! She's already made her feelings known regarding the Ex racer, outside all winter with maybe a new zealand rug in really bad weather, she'll have shock coming! I just tend to nod & agree then do what I think is right!

If I were you, I would be looking seriously at somewhere else, people are always coming and going from yards so what looks like no hope now may be different in a few weeks time. If you are already having problems, be careful they may only get worse, especially if you say one thing to her face and then go and do another. I totally get it when you say she has a small amount of horse knowledge, but that can be just as dangerous as having a lot. If she is that set in her ways you are unlikely to change her - and you've already pointed out that several other people have only lasted a few months. Don't let yourself get into a situation where you are having to move in a hurry or where your horse's wellbeing is compromised. tbh it sounds like your pony is already being compromised because you can't turn him out and by being confined in his box and pen.

 

[sydney02]

My very first thought when I read your original post was that he probably has gastric ulcers. Now I have read what you have written above I am even more sure that this is the problem. Having his food restricted could have resulted in these ulcers forming. I would get the vet and have him scoped. Is he insured? Gastoguard is the only treatment and it's expensive. There are cheaper sources of omeprazole (the active ingredient) online.

A lot of people are very quick to jump to ulcers, they're in all the problem pages of the magazines, all over online forums, but 'ulcer type' horses are hard to keep weight on and if pony has weight issues then one would assume stomach is working correctly. My vet has the only scope in the county and has scoped every horse referred for it and said he has yet to find a horse with ulcers that isn't a classic 'ulcer type'.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

A lot of people are very quick to jump to ulcers, they're in all the problem pages of the magazines, all over online forums, but 'ulcer type' horses are hard to keep weight on and if pony has weight issues then one would assume stomach is working correctly. My vet has the only scope in the county and has scoped every horse referred for it and said he has yet to find a horse with ulcers that isn't a classic 'ulcer type'.

not necessarily-I know of a fair few Iberians that have had ulcers but were keeping weight on. The clue with them was either a loss of performance or an apparent inability to do more advanced work that required a lot of core strength. None of them looked/acted stressy, explosive or an ulcer type.Once treated for ulcers they were able to achieve what they were trained to do.

 

[YasandCrystal]

Try feeding the pony 2 tablespoons of salt in his feed daily. A salt lick will not suffice if there is an imbalance. A friend had a pony just like yours and was on the point of pts. She tried the salt supplement and he returned to normal within 2 weeks.

http://www.calmhealthyhorses.com