Pony's Bad Behaviour sorry incredibly long post :(((((

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buzyizzy

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We've had Charlie, our Connemara pony for almost 18 years and he's always been opinionated and stubborn. At the same time, he's well schooled and a pleasure to hack out, good in traffic and much loved. I took over the care of him when my daughter went to uni for four years and didn't have any problems with him. She came home in August 2016 and due to circumstances she stayed at home until January 2017. We keep both him and my horse at livery.
When she left home again a year ago, Charlie was ok. During our time in Ireland I did have one accident with him, culminating in him dragging me across a field with my leg caught around his lunge rein. He only stopped when he reached the gate and had badly hurt my knee to the extent it took a long time to heal.
I returned to the UK and during the summer months, a long time after our return, he became very difficult to manage. He was always easy to catch, but would run off forcing me to let go of him. I changed his lead rein for a lunge rein and a be nice halter and spent a considerable time doing ground work in the school and he settled down nicely. Manners restored.
On Saturday last week, I was leading them in together as I always do, when somehow Charlie dropped behind me. He has done this before and usually pootles in behind for a few strides, then I can pick up the leadrope and lead them both in. As it is initially extremely muddy and on a steep downhill I am finding it difficult to stay on my feet, plus I had my own horse, and it was broad daylight and they were early to come in, I let him go behind for just a few seconds until it was wide enough to easily collect him. Unfortunately, he decided he wasn't going to walk behind and rushed from behind, knocking me off my feet and going straight over me. As a result I had to take the week off with concussion and a badly sprained shoulder. I also had to leave both horses on full livery as I was unable to drive or even think straight. I am sure most of us have had concussion so I don't need to explain further. I returned to the yard yesterday to take over their care, but I am terrified of Charlie now and the thought of having to lead him again once my shoulder has recovered, is truly making me feel sick. I have spoken to my daughter about him, but she seems quite blase about the whole thing. I can't afford to put him on full livery, or even have yard owner bring them in and turn them out each day. The pony doesn't do much anyway, he's hardly been out of the yard this winter, but he's definitely not ready for retirement. I free schooled him on Friday and he cantered round and round the school of his own volition for a very long time, to the point I was concerned that he would have a heart attack, even though he wasn't puffed. I'm working quite long hours to keep them both in livery, and I'm no spring chicken. As my other posts have said, I would dearly love to take them both back to Ireland, where we had a peaceful life with all of us together, but obviously I can't afford to have any more accidents. We aren't allowed to put hay out in the field, so I think hunger is a contributory factor to Saturday's accident, but even so, he should not have just thrown me out of the way in his haste to get at the grass a few yards further on. There was no room for him to pass. I now have been able to provide ad lib hay at night, which may help, but I don't know what to do with him. If I stay at current yard, or any yard really, I believe he is just going to get worse and will hurt someone other than me. Needless to say, he comes in like a lamb with yard owner. I can't afford a behaviourist, I've done join up with him and he followed me around, and was responsive to the instructions I gave him when he was free schooled. Any suggestions?
 
I'm not sure how you would go about getting your confidence back, can you ask a member of yard staff to go with you to catch in? But I would not lead him with any other horse until you feel he respects you again. I've dealt with a few that do this and I would start with a lunge line and a chifney, let him pull against it and work it out and hopefully you will have a well mannered pony again. Good luck!
 
My mare was awful to lead in but we have since discovered she has ulcers but had been horrible in hand,rude and bargy.
I worried about dealing with her.
In the short term I paid the yard pros and then have taken my husband with me for support and a pair of hands.
I also lead now in a bridle and long lead rope as she took no notice of a dually.
As you have two is there someone who can help you.
My mare is worse in winter and when hungry .
 
My Old Cob, who is probably in his early 30s has got worse about leading and is also incredibly opinionated. I think he has reached an age when he feels he knows it all! My YO is very wary of him and he ran straight over someone else a few weeks back so I try to be the only one who handles him at the moment. I am also not too steady on my feet as I have arthritis in my hip and limp along. I think the thing is consistency. I always bring mine in on his own - I cannot keep an eye on two especially as he will be a complete ar*e and set off another horse and often try to attack them over me. It takes longer if more than one needs to be moved as they are in a field remote from the yard but it is safer. He HAS to WALK with his nose level with my shoulder - no getting in front or falling behind. A very firm yank of the lead rope puts him back in place if needed - but I would use a dually or bridle if necessary to keep me safe. I also wear stout walking boots as I find these give me good grip in the mud.
 
Many variables to consider.
In the first instance, don’t handle him on your own until you are fit and confident again to do so. You may need to spend more money to start off with, in livery fees, but it will be worth it. The alternative is that you may not be physically or emotionally able to prevent a recurrence of his behaviour and get injured again.
Always lead him in a riding hat and glove.
Like debsflo and confirmedponyaddict suggest, you may need a bridle and lunge line for him until he learns to lead properly again
I would also caution against getting into those habits where he has options - like the one you described above. Be in full control of him at all times. A friend started to let her horses find their own way from field to stable and back again. She had a car accident and horses went to a local livery yard while she recovered. They were a nightmare to handle and nearly got banned, because they were used to turning themselves in and out and had no sense that they needed to obey a handler.
Watch what the YO does with him, and why he is different for her. Sometimes it is as simple as body language. You may need to be firmer with him.
Finally, consistency is key - keep him in a routine and always be the same. Don’t let him walk behind you one day and in front of you the next - he needs to be beside you every time.
 
Sorry to hear about your accident - I can understand why you are worried. In the circumstances I would have paid help initially, then handle him with another, and take it from there. Always wear a hat and gloves, and I would also only handle him on his own. Is there really no way to improve the food situation? I agree that he should behave even if he is hungry, but I also believe in not setting horses up to fail and a hungry, opinionated pony is asking for trouble. Would the YO allow you to feed hay in feeders to avoid trashing the ground?
 
It sounds as if he doesn't really have a job to do, and is quite an emotional and financial drain.
Would looking for a loaner be a possibility?
 
I am sorry about your accident.

Firstly I would never lead him with another, so you never get into the position where he can get behind you.

Next, not sure about this idea of join up meaning he can follow you around, and why that would be an advantage? I would lead in a bridle with coupling, so catch with halter first then use a slip-head and long rope. I would start with a back up and come forward just to make sure you are in control.

Before going into muddy field I would practice on the school so you can lead and the horse stays to one side of you, not in front or behind. I prefer them to keep their nose at my elbow. If he starts to barge he would be brought up sharply on the bit and go back to where he was before he was naughty. If he started to get behind I would have a schooling whip to keep him up to where he should be.

As a longer term fix, maybe you could put him out yourself but pay for him to come in at lunchtime if you think he is hungry and miserable, at least until the grass starts to grow?

If it is about your safety perhaps he could just go out on odd days, I presume you could arrange for him to go out and come in at lunchtime on Sat and Sun, pay for him on Tues and Thurs, and lunge or whatever on Mon. Wed, and Fri? It would only be through the worst of the winter, and it does not sound as if he is happy out all day anyway.
 
Can you look topic him on grass livery or part loan him out to bring in the money to help with full livery and to give him some work.
Maybe bring him out of the field to a section of hay, ley him eat that and then lead him on his own in in a bridle, put him into a stable with no food or hay for half an hour.
Horses that are hungry can be exceptionally rude and bad mannered but if he is out with nothing to eat and stressed he may have ulcers and eating can relieve some of the discomfort that ulcers cause.
Some are just rude but you need to keep yourself safe and him comfortable whilst practising the behaviours you want.
I used to work with a mare who was quite happy grazing till she saw someone then would pace the gate, rear/bolt and pull away from the field to get in the stable (plenty of grass in the field)- I was given no warning about the behaviour when I started the job- she had learnt she could get away from people and there was always a feed in the stable. She was then in a head piece and bit for all handling and came in to an empty stable for first half hour, behaviour changed within 2 days of an empty stable but she was never reliable in a headcollar if anything spooked her she would go.
 
I won't repeat all the other valid suggestions, but he sounds bored to me (in addition to possibly hungry/having ulcers). As the owner of a Connie cross that is into everything, I think you may need to do more with him once you have checked there are no health issues, or find him a sharer. Perhaps your local Pony Club knows of a capable teenager that is looking for a ride. You have already been injured a couple of times, please don't let there be a third more serious occasion. Good luck. xx
 
I would move yards.
I have just bought back a Connie I had as a 3/4 year old. In his time he has been a very good pony but he has obviously learned how to get his own way. He has had five homes in three years and when the transporter went to collect him she said the seller appeared frightened of him, literally gave her the lead rope passport and ran.
Since he has been home he is out most of the time, they have a round bale of hay and straw in a barn, so he is never hungry and he behaves no differently than when I last saw him three years ago and appears calm and quiet. I have my horses at home and over the years have tried different ways of managing them and really the least stressful for all of us is for them to have access to enough forage for them not to get grumpy, it doesn't have to be the best forage, they do not even have to be in a big area, a quarter of acre of bare earth with two or three is better than stabling.
I handle my animals on my own, I have a few young stock so everything has to be managed for the least stress and upset. When I was 16 I was mown over, my own stupidity, by some brood mares and there is nothing worse than being splatted in the mud wondering if a hoof is going to connect with you.
The coming in is the flash point so it has to be eliminated. I would find someone who will let you keep him out, either with a enough grass or with additional forage. Better still if there is someone who can bring him in for you until you heal properly.
I used to have some pretty stupid brood mares. In the end instead of getting dragged by them if I brought them in together I would set up a race to where I wanted them just opened the gate and called them. Each one to handle on their own was easy but in a group they were just hysterical, witches. They were Connemara.
 
It doesn't sound like he was being inherently nasty just got a bit overcome with excitement and you didn't notice because he was behind you so he didn't get a quick correction so it escalated to him running forwards. It's mid winter, he made a mistake.

Is your daughter contributing to keep? you say you work very long hours to be able to afford the livery?

Look for someone younger and keener to loan/part loan/share him and give him something to occupy himself? My own oldie lives with my mum and has been (apparently) rather badly behaved of late. The only think I can really put that down to is that now he isn't doing much work he finds other ways to entertain himself and does get a bit full of it sometimes.
 
OP to pick a few words from your first post......

You've been seriously injured more than once. You are terrified to sustain more injury. Daughter is not coming in with solid support and safe solution. Money is tight. On the face of it there is not a good reason that you should remain involved with this animal.

Suggestion...sell for nominal sum ......making sure that the next handler is aware that behaviour training is a vital high priority.
 
If the YO is able to handle him safely, surely the simplest solution is that your daughter pays for her to bring him in and handle him as necessary?

I don't think the horse has done anything terrible, he just sounds hungry, ignorant and typically ponyish.
 
buzyizzy said:
Any suggestions?
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From your description he's doing basically no work, is stabled at night and hungry during the day, and your struggling both to handle him and pay for him. It doesn't seem like either of you are getting much out of this relationship! I assume you don't want to sell, but would he be good enough to go on loan, maybe from your yard? Alternatively, could you send him away on grass / retirement livery for a bit while you decide what to do with him.
 
is it worth getting him checked over? im wondering if eyesight is going as generally, horses dont just keep going OVER you they will do everything possible to keep their feet off you? it just sounds a bit odd for a generally well adjusted horse to me.

if hes all good then get him a loaner and get him working!!!!
 
Laura, I've advertised him for loan, but we can't split the two of them up as the pony in question has separation anxiety and his mate trashed the field completely a couple of months ago when I was riding pony in the school. I've had a long think and YO, who is an angel, suggested a normal snaffle bridle for me to use to handle him. He is normally bitless, so mouth is quite sensitive. I took him in the school today to lunge and basically have him going wherever I want. After a couple of surprise, oh crap moments from him when he realised I could control his direction, he gave in. I managed to turn him out with YO watching from a distance and he was perfect. I'm turning him out tomorrow, then Wednesday I shall bring him in, alone, also with YO watching from a distance. No point in her being up close as he behaves impeccably with her. He shall remain on a lunge rein and with a bridle for ever with me, anyone else can make their own minds up. He doesn't have any health issues, everything checked, he's just a determined pony who is very hungry. I've also tripled their hay intake at night and reduced their turn out time so hopefully he won't be out so long to get hungry. As regards a pony not running anyone over, lol! He didn't stand on me, everything but. Onwards and upwards I hope, particularly as I'd like to take them home to Ireland in the Spring.
 
JFTD it would be if possible, but i work silly hours and often not at yard till YO has gone in, plus can't leave mine out as I found out a couple of months back. Field now has a total trashed track thru it.
 
ESTER: No, not overcome with excitement, there was nowhere for him to go, literally no space, so he should have stayed behind me. It was nothing new to him, weather was good, nothing happened. Please don't make this out to be my fault, and please don't judge. You weren't there.
 
If he were a wee bit younger, PC would be fine, but he's really just a happy hacker now and a wee bit of schooling thrown in. He's coming up 23, so however he is behaving, that needs to be taken into consideration. I don't want him to have any further health issues.
 
Yes I am certain that once the grass comes thru, he will be a lot easier to handle, always is so this spring should be no different. Then we will have to keep him in during the day as he is a laminitic. T
Turning him out 24/7 is not an option as 1) I know from experience that he needs to be regularly handled or he goes feral (even more so)
2) He is almost 23, has been clipped and have never done a full winter out since we have had him, and I wouldn't start now.
3) yard move is guaranteed to send him over the edge.
 
Sounds a very similar story, sometimes yes, I'm hoping the bridle and lunge line will work. I'm still very sore from last episode so he really needs to be brought back under total control. I'm lunging him every day until I can ride him again and doing all I can think of to prevent anything happening again.
 
Thank you Flicker, pretty much what I am going to doing. It is just body language and he knows full well my balance isn't great and we have so much mud :( I will also make sure his nose stays exactly where it should. Not going to give him an inch. A fellow livery brought him in last night and I brought my chap in, pony did slightly try it on, but she is also very experienced with all sorts of horses, so was having none of it.
 
If we think that ours will be hungry when coming in from the field, we give a small bucket feed in situ. That seems to calm them down completely. Obviously the ideal is that they shouldn't be so hungry but occasionally circumstances overtake us.
 
buzyizzy said:
Thank you Flicker, pretty much what I am going to doing. It is just body language and he knows full well my balance isn't great and we have so much mud :( I will also make sure his nose stays exactly where it should. Not going to give him an inch. A fellow livery brought him in last night and I brought my chap in, pony did slightly try it on, but she is also very experienced with all sorts of horses, so was having none of it.
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I am sure you’ll have him toeing the line in no time! x
 
Amymay, oh that it was that simple. He will yank the rope out of my hand 2' out of the gate and be off before I can even think of extracting my feet from the horrendous mud. And trust me, it's very deep and very slippery or if we have two days without rain, I'm grounded. People think they have mud until they see our yard lol!!!
 
Pearlsasinger said:
If we think that ours will be hungry when coming in from the field, we give a small bucket feed in situ. That seems to calm them down completely. Obviously the ideal is that they shouldn't be so hungry but occasionally circumstances overtake us.
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This is such a good idea, I will remember this.
 
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