Poo picking or harrowing?

[Moya_999]

Just wanting to pick people's brains - I'm due to have a baby shortly (within a few weeks) and due to being a bit off it this past few weeks I've not been able to poo pick - the field is looking in desperate need of it now - but I wondered if poo picking is the only option and what would be the benefits of harrowing it instead?
Thanks
Kate x

this has been done to death I am afraid
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...ow-often-how-much-time-spent&highlight=harrow

 

[paulineh]

As both myself and my friend who share the grazing with me lead very busy lives and ours are all together I harrow the fields on a regular bases. I have 4.5 acres which includes the stable area and the Car/Trailer area. The fields are divided up into a small field of about half an acre which is poo picked. and two further fields of 2.25 acres and 1.25 acres which are harrowed.The fields are topped and rotated and with five horses on the grazing we have plenty of nice grass. I have just done a worm count on all ours and each has come back <50. We worm as and when needed but always worm for Tape worm twice a year. When I do worm the horses are put into the small field for a week so that I can poo pick that field.

I keep a good eye on the ph and fertilize as and when needed.

Another friend and myself are considering getting a Manure vacuum cleaner as she has 2.5 acres and has mobile problems at the moment.

 

[Dry Rot]

Fresh manure should not be left on the fields. Besides the risks of worm eggs, the organisms that break up fresh manure use up nutrients from the soil. Composted manure is good to spread, but it will lower the pH, so you need to test the pH of the soil before doing so, or compensate with lime because grass wants somewhere around 6.2 to 6.5 pH. Where about are you? There must be a farmer/contractor in the area with a harrow. Bear in mind that the temperature needs to be above 25 degrees Celsius (if I recall correctly, but it's definitely somewhere in that range) for the eggs to die if you're spreading/chain harrowing fresh manure.

Not trying to pick a fight here but my soil (as you know from another forum!) is almost pure sand. My neighbour on possibly even worse land always has plenty of grass which annoys the hell out of me! I finally challenged him about it. His reply, "Muck". He is absolutely right. He is a cattle farmer so always has plenty of FYM. I spread the contents of a rather large muck heap on nine acres, plus 100kgs of 20:10:10, two years ago and the swaths were so huge that my small baler could not manage it and I had to get a contractor in to round bale it! So excuse me if I challenge the remark I have emphasised above.

As I understand it, microfauna (mostly earth worms) take organic matter below ground where it is digested to produce the nutrients that can be utilised by grass and other vegetation. So the organisms don't use up soil nutrients but rather do the opposite.

As regards harrowing, the jury is still out. I use spiked chain harrows with a railway sleeper tied onto the trailing edge which smashes up the lumps quite well. I always harrow twice, the second time at 90 degrees. The horses go back in when I judge the rain was washed the grass clean. I'll tell you whether this works when we've done some more worm counting -- but so far, so good. I am highly suspicious of the paranoia and propaganda about worms and worming. A lot of people make an awful lot of money selling us stuff like that.

 

[Sebastian]

No worries mate - I am always interested in hearing different opinions. Spreading composted manure makes a huge difference for me, but I would not spread fresh manure. I am talking about the bacteria and fungi during the composting period. How fresh was the muck heap that you spread?

Composting organisms require four equally important ingredients to work effectively:

Carbon &#8212; for energy; the microbial oxidation of carbon produces the heat, if included at suggested levels.[1]
High carbon materials tend to be brown and dry.
Nitrogen &#8212; to grow and reproduce more organisms to oxidize the carbon.
High nitrogen materials tend to be green (or colorful, such as fruits and vegetables) and wet.[2]
Oxygen &#8212; for oxidizing the carbon, the decomposition process.
Water &#8212; in the right amounts to maintain activity without causing anaerobic conditions.

With the proper mixture of water, oxygen, carbon, and nitrogen, micro-organisms are allowed to break down organic matter to produce compost.[8] The composting process is dependent on micro-organisms to break down organic matter into compost. There are many types of microorganisms found in active compost of which the most common are:[9]

Bacteria- The most numerous of all the microorganisms found in compost.
Actinobacteria- Necessary for breaking down paper products such as newspaper, bark, etc.
Fungi- Molds and yeast help break down materials that bacteria cannot, especially lignin in woody material.
Protozoa- Help consume bacteria, fungi and micro organic particulates.
Rotifers- Rotifers help control populations of bacteria and small protozoans.
In addition, earthworms not only ingest partly composted material, but also continually re-create aeration and drainage tunnels as they move through the compost.

 

[lisa-aslan16]

OMG That's a genius idea - I've not heard of that before - The actual poo picking isn't too bad for me it's the barrow-pushing up and down the field that's proving too difficult - so doing that would be a really good idea - It would be great if it worked too!
Kate x

I would be very, very interested to hear if this pyramid stacking works because it makes a lot of sense and seems like a really easy option for me personally x

 

[Dry Rot]

No worries mate - I am always interested in hearing different opinions. Spreading composted manure makes a huge difference for me, but I would not spread fresh manure. I am talking about the bacteria and fungi during the composting period. How fresh was the muck heap that you spread?

The muck heap was an accumulation from a kennels over about 12 years! Rocket fuel! But I also notice an improvement by spreading fresh(-ish) muck with the harrows. What at college was called "short dung". Long dung is well rotted. If the muck is well pulverised and then there is rain, I would imagine all organic matter would b washed down to soil level and out of reach of horses. I'll try to take some photos next time I harrow. For the same reason, I have no worries about grazing horses on grass that has recently had artificial fertiliser or lime applied.

I was looking at a field I harrowed a couple of weeks ago today. The muck all seems to have been washed in and has disappeared. But I do harrow at least twice, at right angles, when the nuggets will grumble under foot, with spiked chain harrows and a railway sleeper dragged along behind that. That makes a pretty good job of breaking everything up and spreading it.

 

[Sebastian]

I would imagine that if the fresh manure is broken up properly into very small pieces, like you're doing, then the conditions will be pretty optimal with plenty of oxygen, water etc to speed up the composting process and releasing the nutrients into the soil. Another point is that as far as I understand, fresh manure is rich in potassium, which stops grass from absorbing magnesium. Most people won't spread fertiliser to compensate for this, but I assume from your posts that you do on a regular basis?

 

[Surreyferretman]

Poo picking ,Harrowing , resting and. , aerating, with the resting bit last : )
I spend a bit of time around stables and liveries , and see the poor grass roots starved of oxygen. Grass will recover a lot quicker after a good spiking. ,

 

[Dry Rot]

I would imagine that if the fresh manure is broken up properly into very small pieces, like you're doing, then the conditions will be pretty optimal with plenty of oxygen, water etc to speed up the composting process and releasing the nutrients into the soil. Another point is that as far as I understand, fresh manure is rich in potassium, which stops grass from absorbing magnesium. Most people won't spread fertiliser to compensate for this, but I assume from your posts that you do on a regular basis?

In theory, fertiliser should only be required if minerals are being removed from the land (as meat, bone, hides, etc.) as in normal livestock farming. That is not happening with horses, unless all the poo is removed or the young stock is being sold off, so the fertility should be maintained, surely?

I do know my soil is deficient in copper and cobalt but the experts tell me even that should be corrected in time as I supply mineral blocks to the stock and the excess is passed through the horses and returned to the soil in muck and urine.

My biggest worry is a build up of worms. I have about 25 acres of grass and in my best year I had 250 ewes, lambs, and tups (no horses) AND I cut 10 acres of hay! Yes, it sounds incredible but I regularly moved the sheep and topped the grass to keep it short. I only applied one tonne of compound fertiliser. Of course, in time, it got "sheep sick" which is the dreaded build up of worms that have become resistant to wormer. A sheep's biggest enemy, as I am sure you know, is another sheep! I don't want my land to now become "horse sick".

A factor few seem to include in their calculations is that horses are very tight grazers. They graze even closer than sheep. Over time, this type of grazing will eliminate all the tall species and broad leaved leaves will begin to dominate. When that happens, putting on more fertiliser is a waste of money. I sprayed for buttercups this summer so it will be interesting to see what the grass looks like in 2015.

 

[Sebastian]

When that happens, putting on more fertiliser is a waste of money.

I was not aware of this. Can you expand a bit and tell me more please?

 

[Achinghips]

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