Poor eyesight and turnout

patchwork puzzle

patchwork puzzle

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Does anyone have any experience of turning out horses with poorer eyesight at night,particularly regarding electric fencing? My little pony was diagnosed with poor eyesight about 3yrs ago and at the time it was only apparent when he was moving from light to dark or vice versa, just this last couple of weeks I’ve started to think it’s got worse (initially just a gut feeling) but then yesterday, when I turned him out, he walked up to the fence line which I had opened up into a bigger paddock and proceeded to walk back and forth as though the gateway fencing was still shut. He only walked through once I got up to him, despite my other horse having passed through just ahead of him and then tonight, it was a bit earlier so a touch lighter, and I thought I’d walk across and open the fence when I turned them out instead of beforehand. He trotted off ahead of me and just went straight into it (he actually missed where the opening would have been anyway but it was like he remembered that yesterday it was open and presumed it would be now).
In the daytime I don’t see any sign that he can’t see properly and don’t have any worries at the moment and I do have the vet coming back out to him on Monday to check but I was wondering if people thought a specific fence type was better, maybe the colour or width (the fence I have is dark green and thin which I read they actually see green better than white but I guess that’s in daylight and of course the thinner stuff breaks easier but stands to reason it won’t be as visible). Could it be worth maybe tying bright or white strips to the fence?
Obviously he can come in during the night whilst it’s dark but he (and my other) are definitely more chilled out staying out and he also has breathing problems so it’s better for him to be out if possible (it’s sctually the first year I’ve tried to leave them out overnight in the winter but they spend summer nights out). Alternatively I can leave him in the same paddock rather than opening up the field over night (although one morning in the summer I did find the fence broken and the ponies the wrong side, and I’m now thinking that it was probably Teddy running about at night who went through it so if he’s going to charge about then even in his usual field it appears he may still misjudge it) but if others have found different types of fencing are more visible I’d be really interested to hear.

Sorry for the rambling, I hope it sort of makes sense.

Cookies and hot chocolate with marshmallows for anyone who’s got this far :-)
 
I would certainly leave the fencing arrangements exactly the same in the dark as they are in the light, or he will be very confused, poor thing! I would expect him to follow the other horse though, really.
 
Diva and Rosie has a nighblind mare so hopefully she will see this, though not quite the same as your boy.

From what you describe I reallly would try and keep his paddock the same daytime and night, he'll know and be confident in the boundaries then.
 
There's a few of us who post who have night blind appaloosa coloured horses. Mine lives out and there's a few rules I follow to keep her safe.

New field / change of boundaries in the morning only so she can learn where she is before dark.

Electric fencing helpful as they hear it. White tape also catches moonlight and I've been known to attach disposal bike lights that flash to boundaries in a new field.

No field companions that are bullies

Keep water, hay etc in broadly same place (although there is nothing wrong with my mare's sense of smell - she can track a food bucket down in the dark!)

If you're in the field after dark use a torch or sing / talk so they know where you are.



The only time I've had a problem was people setting off fireworks the other night when she crashed into the fence, but she's been night blind since birth so has good coping mechanisms I guess.
 
Thank you all and SEL, that’s very interesting as my lad is a British Spotted Pony. Maybe I’m only really noticing it seems worse now as it’s the first year I’ve tried keeping them out overnight for the winter and their routine differs from the summer when they can’t have the extra grass due to the risk of lami, so they would be just in the one paddock but I’ve been leaving them I’m the smaller field with hay during the day and then letting them through to the grass overnight.

SEL said:
There's a few of us who post who have night blind appaloosa coloured horses. Mine lives out and there's a few rules I follow to keep her safe.

New field / change of boundaries in the morning only so she can learn where she is before dark.

Electric fencing helpful as they hear it. White tape also catches moonlight and I've been known to attach disposal bike lights that flash to boundaries in a new field.

No field companions that are bullies

Keep water, hay etc in broadly same place (although there is nothing wrong with my mare's sense of smell - she can track a food bucket down in the dark!)

If you're in the field after dark use a torch or sing / talk so they know where you are.



The only time I've had a problem was people setting off fireworks the other night when she crashed into the fence, but she's been night blind since birth so has good coping mechanisms I guess.
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ester said:
oh if he is spotted and LP LP (small chap in your avatar) then yes very likely congenital night blindness.
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Yes that’s him in the picture. A couple of other things have happened that have been a bit odd lately which my other horse has done (chestnut in the picture and his buddy) and I’ve just thought silly girl at the time but maybe she knows he is starting to rely on her. She gets silly when I take him away from her which I’ve just put down to her being more stressy than he is, which she is anyway but also recently I put their hay in a different area on one occasion so it was more sheltered and although she came across and started to eat, she suddenly charged back to him (he was still finishing breakfast) and stayed nearby until he was done and they both moved over to the hay together.
Am I being daft to think she could actually be doing this because of him I wonder?
 
patchwork puzzle said:
Yes that’s him in the picture. A couple of other things have happened that have been a bit odd lately which my other horse has done (chestnut in the picture and his buddy) and I’ve just thought silly girl at the time but maybe she knows he is starting to rely on her. She gets silly when I take him away from her which I’ve just put down to her being more stressy than he is, which she is anyway but also recently I put their hay in a different area on one occasion so it was more sheltered and although she came across and started to eat, she suddenly charged back to him (he was still finishing breakfast) and stayed nearby until he was done and they both moved over to the hay together.
Am I being daft to think she could actually be doing this because of him I wonder?
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Perhaps she's started to look after him.
 
patchwork puzzle said:
Does anyone have any experience of turning out horses with poorer eyesight at night,particularly regarding electric fencing? My little pony was diagnosed with poor eyesight about 3yrs ago and at the time it was only apparent when he was moving from light to dark or vice versa, just this last couple of weeks I’ve started to think it’s got worse (initially just a gut feeling) but then yesterday, when I turned him out, he walked up to the fence line which I had opened up into a bigger paddock and proceeded to walk back and forth as though the gateway fencing was still shut. He only walked through once I got up to him, despite my other horse having passed through just ahead of him and then tonight, it was a bit earlier so a touch lighter, and I thought I’d walk across and open the fence when I turned them out instead of beforehand. He trotted off ahead of me and just went straight into it (he actually missed where the opening would have been anyway but it was like he remembered that yesterday it was open and presumed it would be now).
In the daytime I don’t see any sign that he can’t see properly and don’t have any worries at the moment and I do have the vet coming back out to him on Monday to check but I was wondering if people thought a specific fence type was better, maybe the colour or width (the fence I have is dark green and thin which I read they actually see green better than white but I guess that’s in daylight and of course the thinner stuff breaks easier but stands to reason it won’t be as visible). Could it be worth maybe tying bright or white strips to the fence?
Obviously he can come in during the night whilst it’s dark but he (and my other) are definitely more chilled out staying out and he also has breathing problems so it’s better for him to be out if possible (it’s sctually the first year I’ve tried to leave them out overnight in the winter but they spend summer nights out). Alternatively I can leave him in the same paddock rather than opening up the field over night (although one morning in the summer I did find the fence broken and the ponies the wrong side, and I’m now thinking that it was probably Teddy running about at night who went through it so if he’s going to charge about then even in his usual field it appears he may still misjudge it) but if others have found different types of fencing are more visible I’d be really interested to hear.

Sorry for the rambling, I hope it sort of makes sense.

Cookies and hot chocolate with marshmallows for anyone who’s got this far :-)
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Yes my mare had moon blindness and only had 20% vision in one eye- I would not be happy leaving her out at night.
 
sounds very sensible
SEL said:
There's a few of us who post who have night blind appaloosa coloured horses. Mine lives out and there's a few rules I follow to keep her safe.

New field / change of boundaries in the morning only so she can learn where she is before dark.

Electric fencing helpful as they hear it. White tape also catches moonlight and I've been known to attach disposal bike lights that flash to boundaries in a new field.

No field companions that are bullies

Keep water, hay etc in broadly same place (although there is nothing wrong with my mare's sense of smell - she can track a food bucket down in the dark!)

If you're in the field after dark use a torch or sing / talk so they know where you are.



The only time I've had a problem was people setting off fireworks the other night when she crashed into the fence, but she's been night blind since birth so has good coping mechanisms I guess.
Click to expand...
 
patchwork puzzle said:
Yes that’s him in the picture. A couple of other things have happened that have been a bit odd lately which my other horse has done (chestnut in the picture and his buddy) and I’ve just thought silly girl at the time but maybe she knows he is starting to rely on her. She gets silly when I take him away from her which I’ve just put down to her being more stressy than he is, which she is anyway but also recently I put their hay in a different area on one occasion so it was more sheltered and although she came across and started to eat, she suddenly charged back to him (he was still finishing breakfast) and stayed nearby until he was done and they both moved over to the hay together.
Am I being daft to think she could actually be doing this because of him I wonder?
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I would put money on she is looking after him - I bought my first donkey from the hateful Jamie Gray as a companion for my moonblindness mare she followed the donkey round and even share a stable with her and became her eyes.

She was never far from her either
 
patchwork puzzle said:
Am I being daft to think she could actually be doing this because of him I wonder?
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They definitely do do stuff like that. My mares were always very attached to each other, but you could generally take one out and they wouldn't call to each other , but as the older ones eye sight got worse, they got totally inseparable and would shout constantly to each other.
I also used to find them stood waiting at the gate stood right next to each other, whereas previously the younger one had made the older one stand right back from the gate and when they were grazing they were always side by side, whereas before Beth's eye sight had started to go they would often be at opposite ends of the field.
I think it took longer to notice that the older one's eye sight wasn't very good, because the younger one had been acting as her eyes for so long.
 
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I’m so grateful for all the helpful information. Am I right in thinking that it won’t be affecting him at all in the daytime and his vision is ok in the light (that is how it appears to be). So many things make sense having read your comments and reading up on this. If I was extra early to them for any reason and it was still dark, or as the evenings start drawing in, he would not come to me (or very slowly) if Sally had already made her way to the gate, yet near her he would trot over. His done this always and as I previously mentioned I knew his eyesight wasn’t great so guessed it was to do with this but I thought it was the light/dark situation that was the problem alone and also thought it was getting worse, but it probably isn’t getting any worse, it’s just that I’ve put him in a different situation than previous by trying to keep them out over night in the winter. I feel so much happier and feel that I can tackle this and work a good solution (obviously after checking with the vet that nothing else is amiss).
Thank you so much 🙂🙂
 
patchwork puzzle said:
I’m so grateful for all the helpful information. Am I right in thinking that it won’t be affecting him at all in the daytime and his vision is ok in the light (that is how it appears to be). So many things make sense having read your comments and reading up on this. If I was extra early to them for any reason and it was still dark, or as the evenings start drawing in, he would not come to me (or very slowly) if Sally had already made her way to the gate, yet near her he would trot over. His done this always and as I previously mentioned I knew his eyesight wasn’t great so guessed it was to do with this but I thought it was the light/dark situation that was the problem alone and also thought it was getting worse, but it probably isn’t getting any worse, it’s just that I’ve put him in a different situation than previous by trying to keep them out over night in the winter. I feel so much happier and feel that I can tackle this and work a good solution (obviously after checking with the vet that nothing else is amiss).
Thank you so much ����
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I can't see your photo well, but if he is a few spot then he probably does have CSNB [night blindness]. Most of them cope so well with it that there was a lot of controversy over the scientific findings that linked the problem to coat colouring. There were owners saying their few spot had jumped a 4 foot fence in the dark so obviously couldn't be night blind. I think we tend to forget that horses don't see like we do even in good light and I would bet a lot of money that if that fence had been moved a few feet after dark the horse would have crashed into it instead of remembering where it was and jumping it!

I call my Ardennes my mare's 'eyes' because she follows him around after dark. She'll happily ignore him in the daytime, but as dusk approaches she gets very stressed if he isn't around. He's a superstar because I've even heard him nicker for her when she got confused in a big field one evening and wouldn't let me near her.

Mine will follow a torch, but even then it needs to be a route she knows in daytime. I also found out recently that she seems to be able to see high viz yellow in the dark. Rather off putting for my OH who was fixing fencing and had a fascinated appaloosa following him around - I guess she could see a floating yellow blob or something odd.

You'll probably find he settles after a while, but it must be stressful for a prey animal not to be able to see in the dark so I do try and keep everything as easy as possible for her.
 
ester said:
The thing that doesn't match with CSNB is yours has deteriorated, usually it is non progressive.
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Ester - I'm thinking though that maybe it hasn't, it's just that I've changed the routine to try and keep them out overnight and so moved the fence whilst it was dark, whereas in the summer it would always be light (except the odd time when he wouldn't come over which I've mentioned below).
When I first thought something wasn't right a few years back it was because the yard I had just moved to had such dingy lighting that his stable was virtually dark and he wasn't finding his food bucket, previous and subsequent yards had good lighting. He walked into a temporary fence once when I was bringing him in in the dark but at the time I just kind of guessed that he wasn't concentrating as he didn't just walk into gate posts, but those gate posts were always there of course and the temp fencing only went up during that day.

patchwork puzzle said:
I’m so grateful for all the helpful information. Am I right in thinking that it won’t be affecting him at all in the daytime and his vision is ok in the light (that is how it appears to be). So many things make sense having read your comments and reading up on this. If I was extra early to them for any reason and it was still dark, or as the evenings start drawing in, he would not come to me (or very slowly) if Sally had already made her way to the gate, yet near her he would trot over. His done this always and as I previously mentioned I knew his eyesight wasn’t great so guessed it was to do with this but I thought it was the light/dark situation that was the problem alone and also thought it was getting worse, but it probably isn’t getting any worse, it’s just that I’ve put him in a different situation than previous by trying to keep them out over night in the winter. I feel so much happier and feel that I can tackle this and work a good solution (obviously after checking with the vet that nothing else is amiss).
Thank you so much ����
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I did a whole 6 months without realising my mare couldn't see in the dark - then the clocks changed.

She was horrible to handle at the time and used to power walk back to her field. Suddenly the bolshy mare was scared to walk across her field in the dark and leapt sky high when her then field mate (jet black gelding) came over to say hello. Somewhere in the back of my mind I had a memory of appaloosas having dodgy night vision, so I got on the internet.

Still find it odd that it is linked to coat colour.
 
So I’m getting white thick tape to put up in place of the thin green stuff and im not going to open up any fencing to let them into a separate paddock overnight but instead I’ll move the fence by a foot or so in the morning (in daylight) and then just hay them in the evening, repeating each day (won’t move the fence if there’s a frost, I’ll just hay then) so this will replicate the summer grazing more closely when he’s out 24/7 but without the extra hay (they’re still in overnight until I sort the tape). I’m wondering though, in the evening when I finish work it’s dark, so will he be ok coming in for a brush to the light stable and then turned back out or better just being fed in the field and staying in the dark? If possible I’d like to try and keep them out as he does all summer in the field plus he has breathing problems which are far better when he’s out 24/7, however his stable is always prepared and ready at the drop of a hat so won’t put him at risk in any way.
 
patchwork puzzle said:
So I’m getting white thick tape to put up in place of the thin green stuff and im not going to open up any fencing to let them into a separate paddock overnight but instead I’ll move the fence by a foot or so in the morning (in daylight) and then just hay them in the evening, repeating each day (won’t move the fence if there’s a frost, I’ll just hay then) so this will replicate the summer grazing more closely when he’s out 24/7 but without the extra hay (they’re still in overnight until I sort the tape). I’m wondering though, in the evening when I finish work it’s dark, so will he be ok coming in for a brush to the light stable and then turned back out or better just being fed in the field and staying in the dark? If possible I’d like to try and keep them out as he does all summer in the field plus he has breathing problems which are far better when he’s out 24/7, however his stable is always prepared and ready at the drop of a hat so won’t put him at risk in any way.
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I actually don't do much with mine in the dark because she isn't particularly nice on the ground when she's stressed - and being led in the dark does stress her. But, you do need to know what you can / cannot do so its worth giving it a go. Mine will follow a torch like a moth, so I tend to shine it on the ground and she follows it.
 
I had a brood mare for years who had one eye missing and about 20% vision in the other she managed fine turned out she heard the electric fences .
 
This is very interesting - how you go about testing for this or is it just something that you can just assume your horse has? Sorry to jump on!

The reason I ask is that Toby has been very funny in the arena recently on one rein and it seems to have been since the clocks changed - it's not pitch black in our arena but there are dark patches and I've wondered whether it was his eyes. We think he has spotty in him (SEL you've seen his photos) and has two blue eyes. Vet checked them a while back and couldn't see anything unusual..

Just trying to rule anything out I can..
 
CSNB eyes look normal.
But equally LPLP horses also look a particular way colour wise so it is easy to rule that link out. I am not sure whether other non LP horses can suffer it, haven't read anything to suggest they do.
 
on a dutch horseforum a girl with a horse that had become blind attached little cat-bells to the electric fencing at certain intervals (the kind u use to stop a cat from getting birds) this helped a lot.
 
emfen1305 said:
This is very interesting - how you go about testing for this or is it just something that you can just assume your horse has? Sorry to jump on!

The reason I ask is that Toby has been very funny in the arena recently on one rein and it seems to have been since the clocks changed - it's not pitch black in our arena but there are dark patches and I've wondered whether it was his eyes. We think he has spotty in him (SEL you've seen his photos) and has two blue eyes. Vet checked them a while back and couldn't see anything unusual..

Just trying to rule anything out I can..
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I've just gone back to one of your posts with a good photo on it and Toby is verging on snowcap - it's hard because he's quite unusual colouring. The blue eyes won't make a difference in the night but those Appy genes might. Can you post a side shot again because ester is v good at colours?

Animal Genetics can test for csnb from a hair sample. Mine was obvious so I only got the test done to prove a point to the vet!
 
SEL said:
I've just gone back to one of your posts with a good photo on it and Toby is verging on snowcap - it's hard because he's quite unusual colouring. The blue eyes won't make a difference in the night but those Appy genes might. Can you post a side shot again because ester is v good at colours?

Animal Genetics can test for csnb from a hair sample. Mine was obvious so I only got the test done to prove a point to the vet!
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Thanks! I'll PM ester so not to hijack OP's thread!!
 
No worries, I have replied, though now you mention yes he could be snowcap and affected. I'd get him tested emfen :) then you know for sure.
 
If it is CSNB then LOUD fat white electric fences are a godsend and change of any sort is a biiiig no, which is probably why you've seen a "deterioration" but a horse who has just CSNB and no other ophthalmic disorder can't get worse (hence it being "stationary"). Detection wise you can get an electrorectrogram (my spelling is very wrong there lol) done and will come back "negative" - the appaloosa project has some good graphics/explanation for it. Or if the horse in question is any form of homozygous Lp (fewspot, snowcap, varnish roan though with the varnish roans you can't tell visually as you can with the snow caps or fewspots) as lp is linked to another gene(????) called TRPM1 which in homozygous form blocks signals from the rod cells in the eyes from reaching the brain. Of course lp can be tested for too so that's another way to tell for certain if horse has CSNB.
Management wise do changes of layout etc. Early in the day so horse has time to get used to it before darkness falls (the rule of thumb is any lighting below that which you can read a book by is too dark for a CSNB horse to see in, though there are differing degrees of it, and some horses cope better than others-frankly I've always thought that rule is way too vague anyway). Also if handling in the dark talk to them constantly so that they know where you are and personally when walking round I always keep one hand on the horse so they don't get surprised and kick out. Also try to always feed in the same place if you can and don't leave anything in the ground that the horse could trip on. Not sure what fencing you have (sorry) but avoid anything easily broken! Admittedly most of this is common sense but always worth reiterating. Kind field companions are a must and personally I wouldn't put my CSNB horse in a big herd.
 
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Thank you Chinchilla, some really useful information there and leggs, the tip about the bells sounds really good too. I’ve changed all the fencing to thick white tape (which I did first thing with him out in the field) and have tonight left them out again so fingers crossed. As the vet is coming anyway on Monday to do their teeth I will still get him checked to just to be sure there’s nothing else going on but all of your replies and help have really opened my eyes to this and as I mentioned before, so many things make sense now which previously just looked like slightly unusual behaviour that I’m 100% certain he has this.
 
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