Poor (horsey) report card.

[Caol Ila]

Have you ever been that parent who thinks your kid has a halo, and then is dumbfounded and horrified when a teacher says that their behaviour at school is terrible?

That's me today.

I'm on DIY but Hermosa is brought in by the yard staff. She has been since the spring. All spring and summer, I had glowing report cards. But the horses were on overnight turnout. Mid-November, they switched to day turnout. I kept her on the bring-in package, as it was working out and made life easy. Last winter, I brought in but the timing of all that was super stressful. Never had any bother with catching her or her behaviour. As I write this, myself and Mr. Caol Ila bring in at weekends (mainly him), and he hasn't had any bother.

The yard got in touch with me today to say that the staff are not impressed with her, because she's been rearing up and throwing her front legs *at them.* She's done this a few times in the last week or two. Obviously, this is NOT COOL in every way imaginable. The staff aren't Joe Midgely (who is? definitely not me...), but the more experienced staff members are pretty skilled horsewomen, no less skilled than myself. They handled it, but weren't happy, which is fair.

I've never had her rear at me at me when I have caught her in a field. I had her rear up at times during ground work/lunging, at which point we had a come-to-Jesus session about the acceptability of that kind of behaviour. By the time I backed her, she had knocked that sh1t off. Since backing a year ago, I haven't done much groundwork because she hasn't (until today) given me any reason to. Now she has!

I'm just trying to think of reasons why she's doing this, and also feeling bad because I trained her, and there are clearly some holes.

Last year, when I was bringing in, we always stayed out of the gate scrum. She didn't like it, and neither did I. She's fairly low ranking in the herd, so maybe she's playing up and finds it stressful to be part of the scrum? Though this wasn't an issue in the summer.

She's five. I know five-year old mares can be idiots.

Otherwise, I don't know. My current plan is to throw some calmers and hormonal mare supplements at her and have some come-to-Jesus groundwork sessions. Be anal, make sure she yields her feet at the lightest cue. Plan B will be to bring her in myself but that entails a lot of f*cking around with work, so isn't ideal.

Her ridden work is coming along nicely. Nothing untoward there. Her manners in the stable and when I am leading her around are exemplary.

Blah. Horses.

 

[Cortez]

Just tell her to knock it off, with physical backup. It is just, as you say, horses - they try it on at times, no need for soul searching.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Yep. Horses. This is my fear about my youngster when we move. He lives out and I being him in and out or OH does for grooming, work, trims, etc. He's fine, but I'm afraid of him doing something stupid or testing someone else. Is my fear rational? Probably because horses...and horses, especially young ones, can get creative ideas.

So she's got some sort of idea and I'd do some groundwork to make sure that idea is no longer in her brain.

Is it excitement? Trying to stay out of the hoopla at bringing in time? Or herdbound stuff?

Sometimes youngsters need reminding that they cannot demonstrate their excitement in such ways.

 

[Caol Ila]

She's not herdbound. But it may well have something to do with the hoopla and excitement of being part of the bring-in scrum. The mares are pretty chilled at 9am summer mornings, but they all can be wound up at 3pm in winter afternoons. Like I said, last winter, I kept out of the hoopla, either bringing her in before it started, or waiting until the staff got everything else out and it stopped. Never had any trouble. And like I said in the post, the odd time she has reared at me whilst lunging or whatever, I have become a screaming banshee.

Rearing at the staff is not ideal. She needs to be handleable by other people to be a functional horse in the world.

 

[Cortez]

.....and she will be. It used to be accepted that horses had to have manners.

 

[SEL]

I had to put myself back on DIY when the Appy was a similar age because she was taking the 'p' out of the staff. Not all of them but she could be vile as a youngster and give an inch and she'd take the proverbial mile.

I had a dually headcollar and she was led in with that for months. Even as a mature teenager she's a madam at this time of year.

Although big M was more embarrassing. He'd take off at walk dragging yard staff behind him towards whatever spot of green grass he felt like eating.

 

[Goldenstar]

Can they lead her in in a bridle?

 

[Caol Ila]

Once she's caught, she's fine. Seems to be the act of catching. And she isn't bitted, so there's that.

Could try a dually or rope halter, though.

 

[Denali]

It sounds like she’s trying out a new trick. I wouldn’t blame yourself as the routine is different from last year.

Mine have always been more ready to come in during the winter than the summer under the same schedule.

Is there a way for you to go out when they are doing turn in to see for yourself?

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Can you go and watch?

I found it near impossible to resolve an issue that one of our freelancers had with catching Mim. Mim comes to call and puts her nose in the head-collar for me so I just couldn’t recreate the behavior to train it out. Watching it helped me to understand what the issue was, and we solved it.

 

[Caol Ila]

Yeah, I can. We bring in on weekends so we’ll go up at the same time that the staff bring in full livery horses and see what the craic is.

Still gonna have some come to Jesus groundwork sessions. Maybe she needs a reminder to be respectful of people.

 

[Titchy Pony]

I second watching, there might be a simple solution or at least an obvious reason.
I wouldn’t blame yourself, you can't train out a behaviour you don't see. Now you know about it, you're taking action.
On a side note, when my Little Madam was liveried at the riding school, one day when she was turned out with her platonic boyfriend and some girls went to bring them in (normally both very good), she ran at them turned around and kicked towards them. They obviously dived out of the way, and both her and boyfriend galopped back to his stable and squeezed in together. Nobody ever figured what that was about and she never did it again.

 

[fankino04]

If it makes you feel better mine got evicted off a yard once because she was bargey to bring in, I was also told on another yard that the staff wouldn't bring her in anymore, she never did anything wrong with me and would walk in on a loose lead rope so no clue how to fix it.

 

[Ratface]

I had to put myself back on DIY when the Appy was a similar age because she was taking the 'p' out of the staff. Not all of them but she could be vile as a youngster and give an inch and she'd take the proverbial mile.

I had a dually headcollar and she was led in with that for months. Even as a mature teenager she's a madam at this time of year.

Although big M was more embarrassing. He'd take off at walk dragging yard staff behind him towards whatever spot of green grass he felt like eating.

I'm another one that keeps a Dually headcollar at the yard. Old Horse can be a right bolshy eejit at times and it's there for when YO and her staff don't have time to pander to his "Look at Meee!" antics. He's 16hh and has the capacity to big himself up with extravagant "airs above the ground". He has the Dually put on and he immediately behaves himself.

 

[Asha]

Is she hungry ? No excuse for rearing but just wondered if she’s getting over excited about coming in ?
One of mine went through this , only in winter . So popped a dually on for a couple of days and that sorted her out . She now holds it together . She gets mighty fidgety if she’s hungry and the last to come in but now knows how to behave .

 

[tristars]

figure whats sparking this, but you already know from previously she can go up, that is her thing perhaps when upset or her go to say something like` i don`t want to`

or perhaps she is just wanting in or food, i go with the bridle on or halti thing as an instant safety aid, then the figure what sparks it

some kick, some bite ya, some go up, some go and strike out, some drag ya, usually a reason, perhaps she is just in rush?

problem is the staff safety and not getting it to be a habit

i had one mare bred here from the age of one she would rear when en route to the field but never in threatening way it was her thing, i had her all her life and she never showed any sign of wanting to go up when ridden thank god!

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Yeah, I can. We bring in on weekends so we’ll go up at the same time that the staff bring in full livery horses and see what the craic is.

Still gonna have some come to Jesus groundwork sessions. Maybe she needs a reminder to be respectful of people.

She may, but with Mim it was just handler error and the description of her behavior was a bit embellished. She wasn’t kicking out, she was throwing her heels a bit higher because she was being chased.

 

[Apercrumbie]

I would also go and watch - it'll be easier for you to think of training sessions that can fix it if you see exactly what she's doing. There also may be some easy tweaks to how the staff are handling her that could help too.

 

[dottylottie]

lily is one of those that wears a halo whenever i’m present, but can be a tw*t when i’m not


definitely crack on with the groundwork, and make sure you’ve got simple cues the yard staff can do. diva was a bargey little rat, and still can be, but she knows to back up when i wiggle the rope. she’ll pull a face at me and stomp backwards, but she does indeed go back

 

[CanteringCarrot]

It's so hard if you cannot replicate it. So observing would be a good idea.

My horse was not behaving so well for the farrier in that he'd try to take his hoof away and/or fidget about a bit. I could but recreate it. He would let me hold his hoof in various positions, rasp him, use a hoof knife, etc. I thought about just doing him myself. Then I switched farriers and he was fine. So in that case, I think it was the farrier. Perhaps he realized I wasn't a fan of the farrier either (his work was ok, but he was quite the narrow minded sh*t talker) still though, it's just like, wth do I do when you can't recreate it.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

If its any consolation this is what my 6yo mare thinks about being caught! Up until this time last year she was so in your face you couldn't get rid of her. This year? Can't get near her! When I do really need her I either have to run her out to being knackered or tempt her into the stable depending on which field she is in.

 

[Goldenstar]

So I had a bottle raised mare that was like this when a young horse exactly the same when you where catching her was the moment it came out the blue I think when she was six .
She was a little difficult when I got her at five bad to lead rude in stable that was handled with work as in exercise and minimal handling it settled .
The catching thing came up in the full first winter but she was a dominant mare and a leader .
I wonder if they have swung a rope at her or something like that but you can’t say that to them .
First thing for a quick fix I would turnout in a field safe head collar with a short rope attached and ask them to use deflection with a long piece of carrot . A mini Lickit also works well but it’s messy to ask another to use and not great with other horses about .
She needs to be distracted during the key time .
At home i would I would do different I would leave her as soon as she went up and go back in ten minutes .

 

[fidleyspromise]

I feel you.
My youngster is easy to catch and everything is within my field so no one else handles him but tiny, mini rears are his go to. - walk too far out his comfort zone, excited when doing trot work, wants to play (that was stopped quickly) or wants food NOW.

I made a comment about my older New Forest to my OH and he said oh yeah, she's constantly planting when I bring her in/out to field. What?? I told him what to do, he did it and she stopped planting with him. I mentioned this to my friend and yes, she has the same problem. If I'm not told, I can't help them resolve it and I think my horses are behaving

are the staff bringing her in in the same sequence each time? Maybe if she doesn't like the scrum then she's best keft til last or does that make her excited knowing she's coming in?

 

[Caol Ila]

OH caught her yesterday. Said she tossed her head at him, but he shouted at her, and then she was fine.

I threw the rope halter on her and we went into the outdoor for a bit of a groundwork refresher. There was definitely sass. Not dangerous. But definitely some head tossing and bouncing when I asked for some fairly basic movements. We had a conversation about it until she was answering my questions in a soft and willing manner.

Makes me wonder if she has been committing minor infractions with the staff that they haven't noticed or corrected, and they grew into bigger infractions. Since backing, I haven't been doing as much groundwork with her as I used to. Maybe we need to have this conversation a few times per week.

 

[FlyingCircus]

Just to say that saying you're going to have "come to Jesus" sessions after the fact and shouting at your mare when she tossed her head ..it doesn't come across as solid training practices.

If you genuinely are getting your mare to cooperate in this way, then I'd not be surprised if it was causing issues for other people who aren't of that school of thinking/training.

Perhaps it is just the language you are using though.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Edit: ima just step out

 

[ihatework]

This needs to be corrected in real time. Black and white. I can only say what I would do in my situation whereby I know my horses training/temperament and they only go on yards with competent people handling and who I trust to make corrections appropriately without anger.

I’d leave horse out in a headcollar to assist in the catching and give them full authority to bollock the horse the minute the front feet came off ground. If bitted it might be with a bridle over the head collar, if not bitted it would initially be with a rope halter and quickly upgraded to a chain if needed.

Honestly this will be solved very quickly if dealt with swiftly. And much better for all involved in the long term.