poor old totilas in the news again

Hmmmm the fact that PETA is involved takes all validity from the case.

Totilas was trained using Rolkur, he was never turned out because he went bonkers, why was not Ed Gal prosecuted, this smacks of a witch hunt and although I do not condone rolkur and I too have heard bad things about Schokemoler, I think this stinks tbh.
 
i wish they'd just let ed have the ride back! (obv i know they never will!)....they would have been world beating! although i think undercover will come very close/if not better in the end!!!

little silly over the no turnout/isolation...how many other horses are kept like this??? do they care about these??? no! their not famous.... and rolkure....how do you stop someome doing this at home/training???

dont think any horse at £6000 per FROZEN 'sticky thing' would have that many stud duties.......
 
Big Ben said:
And once I read that they are involved I switch off, how many stallions are kept in isolation and have no turn out? The Rollkur I may give them that, but if PETA are involved I wonder if there is an issue or not.
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I agree BB with all you have said. PETA are fools, having said that I dont think the stallion is understood in his, envirement but I dont think it would be a welfare situation.
 
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Peta may have made the initial allegations, and considering the high profiles here its not hard to understand why.

However, now this has been said,

"But on 6 December, Frankfurt prosecutor Doris Möller-Scheu told German newspaper Die Welt that she would investigate the claims.


“Based on the assessment of the [state] animal welfare officer, we decided not to drop the case,” she said. "

Frankfurt proscecuters obviously feel that there is evidence to support a prosecution, if they feel that then obviously a prosecution should go ahead as it would with any other horse or individual.
 
Just because he's not the only stallion kept in isolation with no turn out doesn't mean it's right, and hopefully if this prosecution goes forward it may mean better lives for other horses. No other animal do we expect to live in conditions so completely opposite to the way they have evolved. If you went to a zoo and saw animals kept like that there would (and usually is) be a huge public outcry. But because Totilas isn't the ONLY one kept like this it's fine. How many threads on here where the OP asks for advice on a horse, goes along the lines of hasn't had much turnout and the response is always move yards! More turnout! But Totilas, oh no he's a stallion it's fine. It is NOT fine, there is no reason why he can't have as normal a life as possible. Poor horse.
 
ridefast said:
Just because he's not the only stallion kept in isolation with no turn out doesn't mean it's right, and hopefully if this prosecution goes forward it may mean better lives for other horses. No other animal do we expect to live in conditions so completely opposite to the way they have evolved. If you went to a zoo and saw animals kept like that there would (and usually is) be a huge public outcry. But because Totilas isn't the ONLY one kept like this it's fine. How many threads on here where the OP asks for advice on a horse, goes along the lines of hasn't had much turnout and the response is always move yards! More turnout! But Totilas, oh no he's a stallion it's fine. It is NOT fine, there is no reason why he can't have as normal a life as possible. Poor horse.
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I'd agree with this, if someone who is just ordinary gets convicted, it won't really mean much, or take animal welfare much further forward. Prosecuting people at the top of the pile, who exert great influence within the equestrian world, will have an impact and will hopefully change the way people keep these horses.
 
ridefast said:
Just because he's not the only stallion kept in isolation with no turn out doesn't mean it's right, and hopefully if this prosecution goes forward it may mean better lives for other horses. No other animal do we expect to live in conditions so completely opposite to the way they have evolved. If you went to a zoo and saw animals kept like that there would (and usually is) be a huge public outcry. But because Totilas isn't the ONLY one kept like this it's fine. How many threads on here where the OP asks for advice on a horse, goes along the lines of hasn't had much turnout and the response is always move yards! More turnout! But Totilas, oh no he's a stallion it's fine. It is NOT fine, there is no reason why he can't have as normal a life as possible. Poor horse.
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Whilst I agree with you in principle, the facts are that it IS more difficult to turn a stallion out if he has never been used to it, there is a real risk of injury and this horse has NEVER been turned out because he turns himself inside out, that, coupled with the fact that he is worth millions, is probably the reason for lack of turn out in this and many other cases.

As you quite rightly say he is not the only one, which makes me think that PETA are using him for self promotion due to the fact that he is so high profile.
 
Pale Rider said:
I'd agree with this, if someone who is just ordinary gets convicted, it won't really mean much, or take animal welfare much further forward. Prosecuting people at the top of the pile, who exert great influence within the equestrian world, will have an impact and will hopefully change the way people keep these horses.
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I can see the logic in that, but there are many many high profile horses kept and trained in exactly the same way, why pick on this one.

TBH if it was not PETA (who think that just riding the horse is cruel btw) I would not be so suspicious of their motives.
 
Amaranta said:
I can see the logic in that, but there are many many high profile horses kept and trained in exactly the same way, why pick on this one.

TBH if it was not PETA (who think that just riding the horse is cruel btw) I would not be so suspicious of their motives.
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You got to start somewhere, the top, or near it seems a good place to me.

I'd agree about PETA.
 
Amaranta said:
the facts are that it IS more difficult to turn a stallion out if he has never been used to it, there is a real risk of injury and this horse has NEVER been turned out because he turns himself inside out, that, coupled with the fact that he is worth millions, is probably the reason for lack of turn out in this and many other cases.
.
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Sadly, the fact he has never BEEN turned out is probably the main reason that he turns himself inside out.

Money shouldnt be an issue. What about the 5 freedoms? Surely NO turnout ever is just wrong:(
 
Skippys Mum said:
Sadly, the fact he has never BEEN turned out is probably the main reason that he turns himself inside out.

Money shouldnt be an issue. What about the 5 freedoms? Surely NO turnout ever is just wrong:(
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Yes, I am quietly hopeful something positive will come from this for all horses. I just hope it stays about horses/Totilas and not the humans for once. Surely things have got to change in the 21C.
 
Not all stallions will take turn out without going bonkers and risking damaging themselves.

As for covering mare this will be done by AI so he would need few collections of semen to 'cover' a hundred or so mares.
 
Skippys Mum said:
Sadly, the fact he has never BEEN turned out is probably the main reason that he turns himself inside out.

Money shouldnt be an issue. What about the 5 freedoms? Surely NO turnout ever is just wrong:(
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Yes it IS wrong, I don't disagree, I was simply pointing out the whys :confused:

Sadly in the real world money IS an issue, and is one of the main reasons for the way that many (not all) top competition horses are kept.

I am NOT saying this is right and personally think that some of them should take a leaf out of Carl Hester's book.
 
Aw bless him, such a superstar and to think of him being kept and trained like that is so so sad.
My friends stallion is turned out and happy, if he's never been turned out before maybe they need to take the time to teach him!! They take enough time in training him, and I hope to god they are using rolkur he does not deserve that, no horse does. :(
 
Amaranta said:
Yes it IS wrong, I don't disagree, I was simply pointing out the whys :confused:

Sadly in the real world money IS an issue, and is one of the main reasons for the way that many (not all) top competition horses are kept.

I am NOT saying this is right and personally think that some of them should take a leaf out of Carl Hester's book.
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^^Agreed^^
 
If its good enough for valegro.....
Poor thing, stuck in.
Wonder what they found? There are a lot of horses kept in that weave so I'd think it would have to be more than that?
I think every horse deserves turnout.....
 
Please correct me if I'm wrong but don't all top racehorse studs get turnout, or at least in hand grazing? They must surely be just as valuable and fiery.
 
Mistlekins said:
Please correct me if I'm wrong but don't all top racehorse studs get turnout, or at least in hand grazing? They must surely be just as valuable and fiery.
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Yes, many a valuable horse is often allowed to 'be a horse'! There are many ways they could accommodate Totilas having turn out, it's not like they don't have the money/staff/facilities to allow this.

I find this all very sad. This horse has gone from dressage superstar to second string, and on top of this is now being treated like a cash cow rather than a prized pony. In NO way is this horse fulfilling his potential. Very sad indeed.
 
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