Poor pasture....liver problems....micro-toxins???

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YummyHorses

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Both my horse (mare) and daughters pony are unwell. I first noticed my daughters pony looking a little tucked up and just not himself about a month ago so got the vet out. She agreed with me that he just didn't look himself so took bloods.

Results came back recording a very high (almost treble what it should be) reading on his liver. Suggestion from vet that it could be hay or pasture (some form of micro-toxin) or worse case ragwort poisoning. As the pony lives with my mare we decided to take bloods from her - they also came back high. Which on the positive suggested no ragwort - although cant be sure on this until do a biopsy.

Decided to see if we had a bad batch of hay (with this micro-toxin on it) so changed hay suppliers and for the last two weeks they have remained on the same pasture but different hay. Results came back tonight and they are worse - on both horses which suggests its not the hay but could be my pasture. Vet has now said that both horses are to be on 2 weeks box rest - so no pasture and same hay. Really just trying to work out what is causing the problem. She will take bloods again in 2 weeks. If not better after that then they both will be scanned and have a liver biopsy.

Both do not look well - the white of the eye is more yellow, whilst the pony is alert he has a stare about him and my mare is just low and not very energetic. They are both youngish - early teens and were fine up until about 6 -8 weeks ago.

I guess what I am asking is whether anyone else has had a similar problem with pasture? Any experience of this micro-toxin that can form but can not be seen apparently? If so what did you do? Who did you consult? And how did you get rid? How long did it take? And what did you do with the horses in the meantime?

All advice welcome......thanks so much.
 
I don't know if this helps but I make hay from my meadow and this year sent it off to be analysed. ! am slightly shocked by the results, as the vitamin/mineral content is all over the place. The analysis and subsequent feed plan wasn't cheap but has given me really good guidelines on where I need to go.

They also suspect that the pasture is acidic and compacted. They suggested getting a soil sample, and although I am going to get a local agronomist to do it, they also do it and I suspect would really understand the implications on the horses welfare and health.

If you email Sarah at ForagePlus (www.forageplus.com) you will I am sure get great advice, but she is very busy and it may take a day or two to get back to you, but trust me her advice is specific and amazing and she may be able to advice on whether something in the hay/soil is causing the problem.

Good luck, we all try and do our best for our horses and I know what a horrible feeling it is if you don't seem to be getting it right.
 
YH, while you wait to get this sorted you need to take action to support the liver in both horses. As you know, yellowing of the whites of the eyes is jaundice and is a clear and unambiguous sign of a struggling liver. Take great care because it's the norm to NOT see symptoms of liver damage until that damage reaches about 70%! And Prof Knottenbelt (world expert on liver damage in horses) will advise that at 76% damage, it's fatal. Act fast: they need to be on a very low protein diet. All animals need some protein but what protein you DO feed them needs to be of the highest quality you can find. Feed Milk Thistle (D&H do a high quality dried one). Feed Yea Sac if they are dropping weight - it aids hind gut digestion, which is often compromised in liver damaged horses. Feed little and often to give the liver less work to do. Take care with blood clotting. Watch for other serious symptoms which can include lethargy, depression, loss of interest in life, standing in corners pressing the head against a wall, swollen abdomen and other nasty stuff. Good luck x
 
Thanks - they are on milk thistle and bio-premium supplement to aid the gut. They are on a very low protein diet and are being fed little and often. This has happened all so quickly, it really is scary.

Thanks for your help.
 
How are your horses doing? My boy had similar symptoms earlier this year. Had bloods taken and had raised GGT, raised eosinophils and showing signs of inflammation. Was originally thought to be an infection so was treated with antibiotics and 5 day panacur guard incase of worms and he perked up a bit but after a few weeks he dropped off again. Was going to have a biopsy but during the scan a number of hydatid cysts were found which made the biopsy more risky. The cysts may or may not be part of the problem but haven't really got to the bottom of it. Had an internal exam too to check for anything else nasty,tapeworm etc but all clear. Recently his levels have improved greatly, pretty much normal but he's still a bit lethargic. Will risk the biopsy if he' still the same in a month or so. Would be interested to know what you find if you have a biopsy done. My boy is also on milk thistle and low protein. Good luck, hope you get to the bottom of it and is nothing nasty.
 
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