Poorly dog - not clotting - lungworm?

L

letrec_fan

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 July 2009
Messages
541
Visit site
I posted a few days ago about my dog having a suspected sting/bite. This is also posted in NL. Well, blood tests came back. Not good news. Her clotting is very bad and completely deranged. Turns out when her face blew up it was unlikely to be a sting or bite but a massive haematoma from hitting herself or banging her face and she wasn't clotting. Now we have a million questions and no answers. Is it rat poison or potentially lungworm? Been to the vets again, given her four shots of vit. K, more vit. K tablets for us to give and a 7 day course of Panacur. I have looked up more about wormers and it is a total minefield! We treat her just over every month with Advocate but that only treats one type of lungworm! Looking up more about it, it seems it is also very pokey stuff and we were giving it on the assumption it is the only thing that prevents lungworm or rather, doesn't prevent but treats. Also, it appears there is 4 types of lungworm and as above, the Advocate only treats one type. Also, clotting is her only symptom, plus lethargy. No vomiting, some blood in poo earlier in the week but I presume that comes with the clotting problem really, none of the other symptoms that seem to come with ingesting rat poison and I can't see where she would have picked it up from anyway. Vet was very blunt and not very helpful - based on the fact that we are regularly throwing hundreds of pounds at them, you'd think they could offer a better service really. It took them 3 days to get her blood results back to us. He told us if she cut herself at the moment, it could be fatal. Great. So if she had cut herself these last few days, we would of had no idea! Anyone else had any experience of this? Totally confused and just praying it is not either a congenital condition (find this hard to believe as she does high impact agility and had surgery in July last year so both these things point to the fact that it is hopefully not congenital) or a high worm burden. If it is lungworm I am hoping this event has bought it light and we have caught it early and can kill them off. Another possibility is there is something wrong with her liver. I am praying not. She is going back for more tests on Monday (labs not open over weekend) and is currently curled up on her bed. She was still running around in the park as of this morning but it is on lead after the results from today because knowing our bloody luck, she would go and cut herself! Everything has just come on so suddenly as of Tuesday. Any info or experiences would be great.

Thanks. :(
 
I have no experience or advice but just wanted to wish you well and your dog, I think its the not knowing which is probabley the worst for you and I just hope the lab results come back with something treatable.
 
I have experience of a friends dog like this, wasnt clotting although when clotting tests were performed the blood was clotting perrfectly in test tube, it wasnt however clotting in the body. He was given a transfusion and all was well for a few days, the new blood clotted in the body with no problems...about four days after the blood stopped clotting again, I dont think they ever managed to find a cause. I would highly recommend getting a second opinion from another vets if you feel these vets are not being pro active enough. Is she medicated at all at the moment? I wouldnt be happy if I were you being sent home with a dog that has the potential to bleed to death and no plan of action.
 
Thank you Dobiegirl and Vizslak for your kind posts. Perhaps the tests on Monday will reveal more but as I said on the other post I doubt it and it worries me we have to wait over the whole weekend before we can even send off samples. Keeping my fingers crossed.
 
If you have been using the correct size advocate at monthly intervals then i would think you should be fine however have they done any faceal testing to check - baermanns test?

Is she anaemic at the moment? Whats her PCV? There are lots of other conditions to consider like IMHA - immune mediated haemolytic anaemia.

Poisoning could be a differential but i would have thought they would have put her on to fluids if shes poorly.

Ultimately if you not happy i would go for a second opinion and even better if you can afford it got for referral. xxx
 
twiglet84 said:
If you have been using the correct size advocate at monthly intervals then i would think you should be fine however have they done any faceal testing to check - baermanns test?

Is she anaemic at the moment? Whats her PCV? There are lots of other conditions to consider like IMHA - immune mediated haemolytic anaemia.

Poisoning could be a differential but i would have thought they would have put her on to fluids if shes poorly.

Ultimately if you not happy i would go for a second opinion and even better if you can afford it got for referral. xxx
Click to expand...

Yes, been using correct size advocate but not strictly every 4 weeks. Perhaps just over. Collect faceal samples tonight, Sunday and Mon. morning for testing. She is not anaemic at the moment and her platelets are fine apparently. She seems fairly well in herself, certainly not perfect but she was pottering around the garden with us today.
 
All the blood tests they did including liver function came back clear. Slightly off liver but nothing to cause concern. Clotting still wildly out though (ATTP/PT) Now we have gone back in a circle and it is being suggested may be adder bite. Back at square one basically in terms of knowing anything. Going to repeat clotting in a week or so and hope it has improved on the basis the adder venom may still be in the system. I do not know if this is likely or not? Trying to find out more about adder venom but nothing out there about it, it seems. Even knowing the effect in a person would help. She is a mystery dog! Currently still being kept quiet, much to her frustration.
 
Told it was unlikely to be von Willebrands disease as she has had surgery/does agility and never any symptoms of a congenital condition. Hasn't been tested for though as far as I am aware. She is a Labrador x Collie but a bit of a mix of lots of things.
 
letrec_fan said:
Told it was unlikely to be von Willebrands disease as she has had surgery/does agility and never any symptoms of a congenital condition. Hasn't been tested for though as far as I am aware. She is a Labrador x Collie but a bit of a mix of lots of things.
Click to expand...

Von Willebrand's is not always congential. It may be aquired, hypothyroidism being the most common trigger. And although associated with certain pedigree breeds it can also occur in x-breeds. In the aquired form it will therefore mean the dog will not necessarily have shown symptoms prior to this.

http://www.aht.org.uk/cms-display/diag_clinpathis4.html
 
Any news on your dog? Hope it's condition is now under control. Did they look any further into the cause? Heard about another dog with similar sounding symptoms, x-breed, and that did turn out to be aquired Von Willebrans disease (see my post above).
 
Hi cefyl, thanks for your concern. Currently just waiting on the theory that it could be venom in her system and have her booked in for another blood/clotting test early next week in the hope it will be clear. I am not convinced though. If it comes back deranged still, I am going to push for a von Willebrands test to be done. Is this possible - what does a test entail? Is it just a blood test? I looked at hyperthyroidism but it says that red blood cells elevated and hers are normal and some white blood cells and her monocytes are slightly high. I will keep you updated.
 
The test for Von Willebrand's is detailed in the link I put in a previous post. How far are you from Newmarket? If your vet decides to test for it it may pay to get the sample taken at the AHT as they have experience drawing blood for this disease, it is a sensitive procedure.

Is there any skin or muscle necrosis on the assumed puncture site from the adder bite?

I hope she is bright in herself, fingers crossed it is just an adder bite that she has reacted to.
 
Letrec-fan Ive been following this thread and really wish you and your dog a happy outcome.

I have 2 Dobermanns a breed which can have VWD and as mine was both rescue I had no idea whether they had it or not. Mine are both siblings brother and sister and the bitch was already spayed and my vet felt she was unlikely to have VWD. Her brother was un-neutered and as I wanted to have this done my vet suggested the Elisa test. I researched this thoroughly and it is no way foolproof, the results are dependent on the stress levels the dog may be exhibiting at the time, they may test positive one day and negative tomorrow.
A far more reliable and foolproof method is DNA testing, swabs are taken and sent to a clinic in Finland I believe. VWD is gradually being bred out of Dobermanns and If you check out the KC website they will send you the swabs and send them away for testing.
 
Dobiegirl said:
Letrec-fan Ive been following this thread and really wish you and your dog a happy outcome.

A far more reliable and foolproof method is DNA testing, swabs are taken and sent to a clinic in Finland I believe. VWD is gradually being bred out of Dobermanns and If you check out the KC website they will send you the swabs and send them away for testing.
Click to expand...

Dobieirl - the DNA test is ONLY for detection of the gene for Von Willebrand and applies to specific purebred dogs. It is done by Laboklin here in the UK, all 4 variations of VW. It is of no use to the dog in this thread as it is a X-breed and therefore if it has VWD it will be acquired, not genetic.
 
Cefyl Im no vet but just wanted to tell my experience in the hope they would be helpful to the op, I hadnt considered the 4 variations of VWD and realise that VWD in Dobermanns is genetic.
 
Dobiegirl said:
Cefyl Im no vet but just wanted to tell my experience in the hope they would be helpful to the op, I hadnt considered the 4 variations of VWD and realise that VWD in Dobermanns is genetic.
Click to expand...

I meant to add thank you for highlighting the availability of DNA testing - for many conditions. I wish every breeder would take advantage of these tests where applicable, required or not for registration of litters.

I am a vet, not practicing though...
 
"She is a Labrador x Collie but a bit of a mix of lots of things."
Lots of breeds can get VWD and it is not that uncommon in breeds that could mix to produce a lab x collie type.
Airedale, Akita, Bernese mountain dog, Dachshund, Dobermann , German shepherd, Golden retriever, Greyhound, Irish wolfhound, Manchester terrier, Schnauzer, Pembroke Welsh corgi, Poodle, Shetland sheepdog, German shorthaired pointer, German wirehaired pointer, Chesapeake Bay retriever, Kooiker, Scottish terrier, Shetland Sheepdog, Blue heeler, Border collie, Bull terrier, Cocker spaniel, Labrador retriever, mixed breed, Pomeranian and others

Not the big problem in most of these it has been in Dobes but it could be there.
 
Thank you for all the information. I think I will just have to wait on the next clotting test/blood test to see if anything at all has changed. No necrosis as far as I can tell. I have re-read the link again. So is the ELISA test not very accurate then?
 
As I understand it the Elisa test wasnt reliable for genetic testing of VWD.

There are different variations of VWD and having a Dobe which could have it geneticaly the DNA test was found to have foolproof results unlike the Elisa test.

As a vet Im sure Cefyl can explain it better than me.
 
Hi everyone,

Blood test results came back today and I am glad to report that they are clear! Clotting has returned to normal so we are assuming it was a snake bite. So glad we are over the worry now of the possibility of something more dangerous/undiagnosed that we couldn't get to the source of. She is perky as ever and I let her off the lead for the first time in 2 weeks today and she loved it - running around like a lunatic with a football she found! The strange thing is this must happen to all dogs that have a snake bite (adder) presumably but there is no information on it out there. If we hadn't seen the gum hemorrhages and taken a blood test we would never have known. Slightly worrying this could affect all dogs bitten by snakes without people knowing - as I said earlier if she had been cut it could have been fatal. Thank you everyone for all the information and support, very glad she it better now! :)
 
So glad your dog has returned to normal good health, adder bites are more potent at this time of year as they emerge after hibernation and their venom is at peak potency.

It certainly is a worry, luckily we only seem to have grass snakes here and thats the way I like it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top