Poorly pony - Liver infection & why can't she out her head down?

dollymix

dollymix

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My Welsh D mare has been struck down by a virus/infection affecting her liver. Her bloods show raised enzymes and my vet is treating her with antibiotics, bute and a Vit B injection. He has also told me to put her on Red Cell and to ensure that her diet is as low protein as possible.

She is eating ok, but I’m worried she is not drinking anywhere near the normal amounts (she usually drinks a lot) and is consequently only producing really short wees (not emptying her bladder type). Vet wasn’t too concerned by the amount she is drinking and said she would drink in her own time. I have been making her feeds very wet and sloppy to hep this, but I am worried about this aspect.

She is very down in dumps and not her usual bolshy self at all. Her temperature has come down but is still higher than normal. Her breathing and heart rate is at the high end of normal. (Her temp was 39.5 on Sunday night – one emergency vets bill later!).

I am just wondering if anyone else’s horses have ever suffered from similar and what you did to help them recover?

As a side issue, she is also extremely sore through her neck. We stopped riding her about 3 weeks ago as we thought she had a sore back through a saddle problem. Her back conformation is not great and she is dippy necked, liking to have her head up in a very high head carriage and pulling herself along, rather than pushing from behind. We have been using a lunging aid called a ho (from the Classical Dressage website – think it’s simply called a cotton lunging aid on there.) which has improved her way of going and she has developed much better top line under her saddle. Could any of this be connected?

The real reason, apart from her high temp, for calling the vet on Sunday is that she is currently unable to get her head down to the ground. I usually feed her from the ground (again with her back in mind) and so can get her head down about 3/4s of the way to the floor and then she just stops and can’t reach! Poor girl

The vet is aware of this issue and says he thinks it is unrelated to her virus and to worry about getting her well first internally, and then we will worry about her neck problem!

Any opinions/thoughts or advice much appreciated!!
 
The 2 issues sound unrelated and you need to deal with the liver issues first so she can get back to normal in her overall health before looking at the back or neck problems, that could be coming from anywhere, sore backs are often due to pain somewhere else and over compensating by holding themselves in a fixed way, by putting her in a training aid without addressing the cause you may have made her use muscles that were not ready to be used and created some further tension and soreness.
Once her virus has been sorted I would get her looked at by the vet regarding her soundness, if she is generally ok then some physio should help get her right by releasing any tension and allowing her to start using herself properly.
 
Hi and thanks for the advice.
It's basicaly what vet has said about getting her right internaly firt before worrying about her neck.
As a point, the training aid has been recommended by a physio due to her back conformation. It has been fitted very loosely to begin with and only used in short bursts, increasing to a bit longer each time. she has worn it maybe 3 times a week for about 5 weeks.

I am concerned about the water intake mostly, although as mentioned, the vet seemed unconcerned. I am going to start soaking her hay from today too as vet reckoned that would help with reducing the protein intake - so I suppose she will get some added liquid intake from that too
 
it def sounds like 2 differant conditions, ivestigate and sort the virus liver thing first then i would sugest looking at the back and neck problem poss x-ray as i would be worried about kissing spines. I would raise the water bucket on a bucket or upturned bit or something so should she choose to drink she can. Also i would question using this trainig device while she is poor she will be slow to replace and fix muscles and if yo are totally changing her way of going this could make her sore so introduce really slowly. ie 5min in walk once per week then 5 min in walk twice per week then increase once she is better that is.
 
thanks for tips. I have raised her water bucket off the floor to try and encourage her to drink already. I wondered about adding something flavoured to the water? I know that endurance/event riders sometimes do this to encourge a horse to drink? Anyone ever tried this?

Not planning on any physical work until all clear with vet. Up until Sunday when I caleld the vet, the Physio was actually booked in to come this weekend, but I called an cancelled as was obviously no point when she was poorly and out of work. For now she is just walking out in hand twice a day. Sorry - I should have explained all this better in my original message!
 
ok so try cut apples in the water a glug of molasses or apple juice maybe add electrolytes to the water as well. Also maybe use soaked sugarbeet water anything sweet it worth a try. Slopy wet feeds and soaked hay - which you are already trying. Hope you get to the bottom of it might be worth considering Hepatosyl supplement available from your vet to help the liver out.
 
The two issues could well be connected. Don't discount the fact that she can't put her head down is due to feeling unwell. If she is feeling sore around her belly, then putting her head down may be pulling muscles and making it uncomfortable for her. My old mare had several episodes of high temperatures and on each occasion, she would refuse to put her head to the floor. This usually was due to the antibiotics making her stomach upset.
 
Definitely stop the aid, sounds like it is the problem, put on bute for 5 days that will settle down any unseen swelling and tightness, if okay after 5 days of bute and no training aid usage you have got your answer so get hold of the physio that suggested using it and go from there, hope she is better soon poor thing
 
putasocinit said:
Definitely stop the aid, sounds like it is the problem, put on bute for 5 days that will settle down any unseen swelling and tightness, if okay after 5 days of bute and no training aid usage you have got your answer so get hold of the physio that suggested using it and go from there, hope she is better soon poor thing
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Bute is contra-indicated for liver problems so do not use unless advised by the vet it could set her back in recovery.

Regarding the water intake, I missed that earlier as did not read thoroughly, this time last year I had a horse that could not drink for many weeks so became rather an expert on getting fluids into him, the most popular was very well soaked grass nuts or fully molassed sugar beet, he had at least 3 choices in his box at all times, raised to encourage him to take it, apple juice did not help, soaking redigrass was useful, mine would not eat wet hay so I had to use every method I and HHO could think of, it can be frustrating but they do require water in order to function and heal, especially when unwell and fighting against pain.
 
be positive said:
Bute is contra-indicated for liver problems so do not use unless advised by the vet it could set her back in recovery.

Regarding the water intake, I missed that earlier as did not read thoroughly, this time last year I had a horse that could not drink for many weeks so became rather an expert on getting fluids into him, the most popular was very well soaked grass nuts or fully molassed sugar beet, he had at least 3 choices in his box at all times, raised to encourage him to take it, apple juice did not help, soaking redigrass was useful, mine would not eat wet hay so I had to use every method I and HHO could think of, it can be frustrating but they do require water in order to function and heal, especially when unwell and fighting against pain.
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Thanks again! She is drinking a bit more now and I have been pinching the skin regularly to see if she is dehydrated and its been fine (although I'm aware its not a fool-proof way of checking for dehydration). I'm a bit more reassured now that I am making her feeds so sloppy, plus soaking her hay as she will clearly be getting additional water from this.

Re the Bute, my vet has put her on this, despite the problem being in her liver! He says that although it might seem counter productive, he says it will make her feel better as its anti-inflammatory and she needs this? She is on two sachets a day for a week, plus Norodine and she has had a Vi B injection too. She is also now having Red Cell at the vets instruction.
 
putasocinit said:
Definitely stop the aid, sounds like it is the problem, put on bute for 5 days that will settle down any unseen swelling and tightness, if okay after 5 days of bute and no training aid usage you have got your answer so get hold of the physio that suggested using it and go from there, hope she is better soon poor thing
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Yes she is currently out of work whilst she is recovering. I wont be using it again now until she has fully recovered from the illness and a physio has seen her.
 
lhotse said:
The two issues could well be connected. Don't discount the fact that she can't put her head down is due to feeling unwell. If she is feeling sore around her belly, then putting her head down may be pulling muscles and making it uncomfortable for her. My old mare had several episodes of high temperatures and on each occasion, she would refuse to put her head to the floor. This usually was due to the antibiotics making her stomach upset.
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thanks for the advice. The vet did intially say he thought it was related, but when he manipulated her neck she appeared sore on the top third of her neck closest to her poll? I will get her better interally first and see how she is doing then with reaching the ground. I usually do daily carrot stretches after work. Between her legs, stretched out and down in front and up towards her stifle. She was not able to do the one between her legs at all on Sunday (it was Sunday when I called emergency vet as she was so poorly) or to her stifle reaching round to the right. She could turn to the left but not happily.
She could still manage the down and forward, just!

I wil lsee how she oes once her illness has gone and I intend to get the physio to see her now before work commences again.
 
My old horse presented with stiff neck - unable to put down more than 2/3rd, very high temp (unlike yrs) Rushed to Liverpool - was apparently a meningitis virus. They checked for liver infection too & bone cysts on spine as well - interestingly.

Good luck, will read with interest.
 
cobwithattitude said:
My old horse presented with stiff neck - unable to put down more than 2/3rd, very high temp (unlike yrs) Rushed to Liverpool - was apparently a meningitis virus. They checked for liver infection too & bone cysts on spine as well - interestingly.

Good luck, will read with interest.
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EEEK!!!! Will keep an especially close eye on her now!! If she deteriorates at all I'll tell the vet this! She has actually seemed much brighter the past couple of days so I am hoping she is on the mend.

Will be interesting to see if she can get her head down once this has cleared up. I haven't encouraged her at all to stretch down over the past few days. I've been feeding her haynet at 'natural head carriage' height and raised her water bucket a few feet too. I am feeding her bucket feed (with meds in) bu holding it up for her. I might try tonight to see if she will eat from the bucket on the ground.
 
My youngster currently has this same virus - liver function is all normal, but he was very tired (and no it wasnt fitness as many people told me), was peeing normally just seemed a bit out of sorts under saddle. He was cheeky and cheery as normal in the stable, he just didnt have any oompf, despite me getting him slowly fit after a summer of stuffing his face and not much riding (I had a busy period at work and then he was growing at awkward angles and shapes so thought it best not to ride).

I thought perhaps that he just needed more feeding as was on a low calorie diet but after hacking him one day where he literally was dragging his feet after 30 mins of walk (previously hacking out for up to 3 hrs) I called the chiro who said he was very sore in his pelvis - not muscular or anything but he had seen it a few times before with horses who had a virus affecting their livers. So vet came out next day and sure enough, it was a virus. No raised temp or anything else which you would think would indicate a virus (vet thought I was mad to order bloods).

Anyway, he had injection of antibiotics + vitamin B + 3 weeks powdered antibiotics and he is also on a liver supplement from the vets and milk thistle. He was tested again after 4 wks and he was showing imprvement - enzyme levels half way back to normal. Next set of bloods due in 2 weeks (he has to have them every month until back to normal). Currently only on the liver supplement and milk thistle.

Not sure what has caused this - they do not think it was environment and no other horse is showing the same issues. I am having another one of mine blood tested on the next round to see if there is anything there.

Mine does not have a problem with bending his neck though - wouldnt the bloods show meningitis? Mine checked for bacteria as well and all just normal.

ETA: mine was very tired after 30 mins of work and if ridden consecutively he presented as though he had a very mild case of azoturia (tying up) which is common where the liver enzymes are raised. I did not ride mine until we got the 2nd set of bloods back and he is halfway to normal however we are only walking for 20 mins every other day.
 
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Latest update. She is till really quite stiff. Hardly moving around her box - when I come up in mornings it looks like she has only just gone into a freshly made up stable - giveaway being the one, mammoth sized pile of pooh in one place.

SHe walks like an old horse (she is 9) but when I take her out for a walk up the lane she does loosen off but will not trot (she usually jogs next to you when you trun around and head for home).

Explained all this to the vet today but he said he is happy so far, he reckons the stiffness is down to her feeling poorly and that I should give her the weekend to see how she does. I am keeping a very close eye on her though. She is eating well and getting enough water now (drinking more from bucket, but also soaking hay and giving VERY sloppy feeds which she loves). Fingers crossed the stiffness is just related to the 'feeling poorly' aspect and nothing else but I am sceptical as she still cannot get her head down to the ground.
Will see how she gets on this weekend
 
My old pony has twice had problems putting his head down , the first time I don't know how he did it but the 2nd time he did it by snatching his head while I was long reining him. He got better both times in a couple of days, I raised his hay so he didn't have to stretch down for it.

He has recently had a bout of illness although this wasn't confirmed what it was, he was down in he dumps, wouldn't eat his feed and had a swollen sheath which the swelling then extended along his tummy and he came out in a lot of rain scald also red gums. The vet put him on 5 days of antibiotics and he recovered alright. The vet thought it may have been something he ate in the field but I think it was more likely a change of feed from hi fi to pure alfalfa.
 
I know there has been a lot of Hype about using Turmeric but I have put my horses and Dog on the mixture and I have been able to take one mare off Danilon
one mare has stopped coughing and my gelding is happier in his work. I have also been able to reduce my Dogs Previcox and hopefully will take him off it altogether soon.

Look at their FB page (Turmeric Users Group).
 
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