Poss controversial. Riding affecting horses

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skewby

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There are countless, countless posts on here about horses displaying various unwanted behaviours, from not going forward to downright "get off me" type shenanigans.

We are all very good at saying "has back tack teeth been checked?" and it's reassuring to see that in the vast number of cases, yes they have.

But I can't help feeling we often ignore the effect the rider has. We seem to, on here (and please correct me if I am wrong) put it down to quirkiness, naughtiness and exuberance, if any form of bad behaviour is still being exhibited after checks.

But what about the riding? Everywhere you go you will see horses struggling to move under tight legs, hard hands, rider leaning back/forward, gripping, yanking, uneven.

I suppose my point is, if you have had all the necessary checks, then I believe it's time to look at your riding. Does anyone else think along these lines when reading posts?
 
Yes, I don't answer a lot of posts I read as it is so difficult to explain what you mean over the 'net compared to in person. A lot of the time I just want to say find yourself a good local instructor who can actually look at the horse/rider combination and see where the problem lies. The odd time on here I've answered the "CC my horse's way of going" posts with the answer (in my eyes) that if you change this that and the other with your position you will probably solve the problem I've found its a thread killer!
 
Yes! The latest one where the horse is leaning on te bit has been put down to the horse's 'rudeness' by one or two posters, when it is obvious that he has no other way of going due to the way the rider has been taught to ride.
 
Absolutely, but we all have to learn somehow, no one is born a perfect rider and no one ends up one either. I think there are a lot of people out there who have NEVER sat on a true schoolmaster -which I think is a necessity to ride well - I know I learnt more from sitting on a schoolmaster in 2 weeks than I'd learnt from 10 years of good quality lessons.

Perhaps we should add to the almost nauseatingly standard reply of 'have you had your horses teeth back and tack checked, have you had your riding checked recently?

BnBx
 
Yes we do. So much so that my daughter has been going to a physio for the last 2 months to use his ' Flex chair'. She apparently was completely unbendable on one side. Her riding has improved no end and we can see that in the way the horse(s) is/are responding. She can change direction with a very slight seat movement now. Physio is actually coming to watch her, and some of the other riders he has been helping, to ride tomorrow night so he can take it further. She has also been improving her stamina and this has also helped.
Not all problems are down to the horse/saddle.
 
Yeah I guess it is going to have a big effect. But then I have a pretty poor position but horses tend to go well for me (maybe I've just been lucky!) - so also think people get a bit hung up on position of the rider, when IMO it's all about confidence!

I think it depends really, lots of reasons why you might have issues.
 
Yep, totally! I see it all the time... Sometimes the riders fault eg horrid hands, unsympathetic, aggressive riding, misuse of gadgets, etc.

Sometime the riders fault but not intentionally, for instance dodgy hips can cause riders to sit crooked in the saddle, pain or weakness can cause us to sit badly too, etc.

The problem is when people don't want to admit to it or try and change...
 
Wagtail said:
Yes! The latest one where the horse is leaning on te bit has been put down to the horse's 'rudeness' by one or two posters, when it is obvious that he has no other way of going due to the way the rider has been taught to ride.
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Link! Prob best to pm it pls :) xx
 
I agree and,what is often not taken into consideration is how the horse behaves on the ground. A horse that is ill mannered pushing and barging and getting away with all sorts with the handler on the ground, is never going to behave as he should when ridden.

Feeding can also play a large factor. Few people know how or what to feed, they go by volume and not by weight according to size and work.
 
Bethie said:
The odd time on here I've answered the "CC my horse's way of going" posts with the answer (in my eyes) that if you change this that and the other with your position you will probably solve the problem I've found its a thread killer!
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Oh dear. You have had the guts to post it and I haven't, but there is your response!

It just honestly amazes me how we write off a horse when possibly, just maybe, it may be a rider fault, but we don't even go there.
 
I agree totally. Ive ridden for years, thought I was an ok rider, rode some difficult horses over the years, then I started having dressage lessons on my current horse. OMG, I was (and still am :)) terrible. It taught me to realise the problems I were having were caused by my riding. Whether it was my rounded shoulders, looking down constantly or ineffective legs, wonky legs, wonky hips etc etc etc. Things got worse as I began to realise all my faults before they got better. We would rectify one thing, then work on the next and I begain to get a 'feeling' for things that didnt feel right and started to realise what I was doing wrong without being constantly told what I was doing wrong. My horse doesnt make things easy and it still is an uphill battle, made worse probably by the fact Ive ridden him incorrectly for years and the fact he wasnt a push button ride. A friend once quoted that we ruin lots of horses before we get it right and I think rider ignorance and blaming the horse for everything is a major problem. The only saving grace is a horse is such a forgiving animal.
 
Starbucks said:
Yeah I guess it is going to have a big effect. But then I have a pretty poor position but horses tend to go well for me (maybe I've just been lucky!) - so also think people get a bit hung up on position of the rider, when IMO it's all about confidence!
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You clearly don't have a "poor position" if horses go well for you. But, confidence is a good point. If you are confident, then you are relaxed, which IMHO allows the horse to do what is being asked of it, and gets positive results. Without even going into the dynamics of how they respond to us if we are confident but if we are remotely doubtful they know it, and either dissolve or take charge themselves.
 
Foxhunter49 said:
I agree and,what is often not taken into consideration is how the horse behaves on the ground. A horse that is ill mannered pushing and barging and getting away with all sorts with the handler on the ground, is never going to behave as he should when ridden.

.
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Not sure I agree with this, my big fella would bite or kick you soon as look at you but is the safest, nicest ride (well he was before his hock became too arthritic to ride him on he's 24 now)... I put a 6 year old on him and novice 18 year old and he was totally safe but his pirouettes were so good that Stephen Clarke used to borrow him to demo them!
 
Its funny I stumped my RI the other day. I asked her would you rather see someone riding in a perfect position but not that effective and horse not going to well or someone who looks a bit 'scruffy' but horse working nicely.

We eventually agreed that the horse would go well regardless if the rider maintained not only the perfect position but also went with the horse and remained supple. (Easier said than done of course.)

I know my riding is far from perfect but I think sometimes you need to see it yourself to realise what your doing wrong. That's why I get my mum to take so many videos.

ETA: Just read your post on confidence. I think rider mentality is so important. Mine is awful I lack so much self confidence at one stage I wouldn't go to shows as I thought I was so krap. The moment I act confident on my boy he behaves and starts working nicely.
 
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Louby said:
I agree totally. Ive ridden for years, thought I was an ok rider, rode some difficult horses over the years, then I started having dressage lessons on my current horse. OMG, I was (and still am :)) terrible. It taught me to realise the problems I were having were caused by my riding. Whether it was my rounded shoulders, looking down constantly or ineffective legs, wonky legs, wonky hips etc etc etc. Things got worse as I began to realise all my faults before they got better. We would rectify one thing, then work on the next and I begain to get a 'feeling' for things that didnt feel right and started to realise what I was doing wrong without being constantly told what I was doing wrong. My horse doesnt make things easy and it still is an uphill battle, made worse probably by the fact Ive ridden him incorrectly for years and the fact he wasnt a push button ride. A friend once quoted that we ruin lots of horses before we get it right and I think rider ignorance and blaming the horse for everything is a major problem. The only saving grace is a horse is such a forgiving animal.
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Yes this is what I was trying to say!

I, like you, got myself a horse I couldn't ride one side of. I was 31 and had ridden, albeit on and off post 17 years old, since I was 4. Actually first sat on one at 3. I thought I was great. I so wasn't, the horse I had was. My current lad is v talented but he's one that will absolutely not do it unless asked correctly. With the aid of an amazing instructor I have had weekly lessons and hours and hours on the phone in tears, teaching me to let go of the tightness, the hands up in panic, too many other faults to list here. I'm not saying I'm ace now but I can ride this horse, because he makes me ride him, because if I don't I'll end up in trouble.

But that's my point. I have a horse who will quickly say "actually, no." and scare the bejesus out of me. Most are not like this and are far more compliant, hence my getting to a grand old age believing I rode well.

What about all those horses out there who are quietly "putting up", or putting in bucks the rider can sit, mine shouts LOUD when you impair him, many do not but just quietly protest?

Are we missing those protestations, just saying well it's had the physical checks so it MUST just be being an @rse?
 
Totally agree, I realise that my poor position/noisy hands/lack of seat bones etc (the list goes on and on!) is the cause of my inability to do most simple riding exercises! If a horse I am riding refuses to move, goes the opposite direction or does what it likes I know its nothing to do with tack or teeth or the horse being rude! But at least accepting your faults is one step closer to getting rid of them eh!!!
That physio sounds brilliant by the way... might find one local to me to help me out!
 
blitznbobs said:
Not sure I agree with this, my big fella would bite or kick you soon as look at you but is the safest, nicest ride (well he was before his hock became too arthritic to ride him on he's 24 now)... I put a 6 year old on him and novice 18 year old and he was totally safe but his pirouettes were so good that Stephen Clarke used to borrow him to demo them!
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I'm with you on this one - there was a horse I used to ride that would do his best to try and kill you on the ground - run you over/kick/the works. BUT...the minute you sat on him, he was absolutely perfect. Never put a foot wrong.

I agree that riding has a massive impact on how a horse goes - mine is less than perfect, and while i do have a great many conformation faults (truly - I am as wonky as they come!), I find that riding helps me to get my body aligned better and is great physical therapy. You are right that a majority of the time, the riding gets overlooked in favour of other - perhaps easier to change - things.
 
yes definatly! I've always used the saying that ''99% (or something similar) of problems are down to rider error/positon etc''

Horses simply react to a situation they find themselves in, they don't plan and scheme to be 'bad' and problems don't arise for no reason.

I know i have a number of problems that affect a horses way of going etc and i always (or at least always try) to look at myself first when things go wrong. Unfortunatly changing bad habits takes a really long time, especially when you only ride once a week or less :rolleyes:
 
Tee hee....your back a matter of minutes from bon france and stiring it up on the forum!!

Yes of course bad riding is probably the biggest contributer to horses going badly! Just look at how all mine go :p:p:p:p

xxxxx
 
Hmmm, I'm not sure that this is controvertial at all, I would have thought that *nearly* all horsepeople would put up their hands and acknowledge that the perfect rider doesn't really exist, and that everyone has their faults. They key is knowing what they are and how to deal with them. I can't wait to start lessons on my boy, and also to see someone else school him a little so I can see what he can do for other people, without the restrictions of my specific flaws. I know that my core is weak, my hands tend to be too low and I rise too high in trot... so I'm working on all of these. However, we're only human and from my experience as a music teacher, I've found that it's better to focus on one thing at a time. So when I'm in the saddle, I'm sorting my hands first. I'm working on my core on the ground and then when I'm happy with my hands, I'll move onto the next thing on the long list of faults.

I want to do dressage with my boy but I knew when I took him on that I would take more schooling than him.

That said, I think it is obviously still important to stress the importance of horse's health... wouldn't you hate someone to put something down to their riding and spend a few months trying to fix it when it might have turned out that there was something physically wrong with the horse and it had been struggling/in pain for the time that the rider was trying to fix themselves? :D
 
Oh totally. I'm having to learn to ride all over again to school my youngster. Since getting him I've realised that I've spend the last 18 years being a passengar and not a rider - the only saving grace of that is that although I was never really effective I don't think I did much harm either. Since getting my youngster who, incidentely, was my first horse I have to be effective as I'm the only person riding him and I want results - as a result I'm having to totally learn how to ride effectively and also how to teach him as well. We are making slow progress (emphasis on s-l-o-w!!). I think the proof that everything that is wrong is due to my riding is that my instructors can ride him and he goes fabulously - I ride him and not so much but we are seeing small improvements but with him I can definitely see how my riding affects him; in positive and negative ways!!
 
skewby said:
There are countless, countless posts on here about horses displaying various unwanted behaviours, from not going forward to downright "get off me" type shenanigans.

We are all very good at saying "has back tack teeth been checked?" and it's reassuring to see that in the vast number of cases, yes they have.

But I can't help feeling we often ignore the effect the rider has. We seem to, on here (and please correct me if I am wrong) put it down to quirkiness, naughtiness and exuberance, if any form of bad behaviour is still being exhibited after checks.

But what about the riding? Everywhere you go you will see horses struggling to move under tight legs, hard hands, rider leaning back/forward, gripping, yanking, uneven.

I suppose my point is, if you have had all the necessary checks, then I believe it's time to look at your riding. Does anyone else think along these lines when reading posts?
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Yes.

So many people are too quick to blame the horse. And don't put the time effort and money into sorting the cause of unwanted behaviour. Whether it be due to a physical/tack problem with the horse OR the rider
 
I think you're spot on. So many people seem oblivious to the fact that the horse is feeling (and often responding) to every movement in our weight/hands/legs - and often they're movements we're not even fully aware of. I think a lot of horses become 'used' to all this activity and start to tune it out - which is when you get lazy, un-interested horses who are putting up with their rider rather than working with them.

I'm sure we've all seen horses who look incredibly tense and uncomfortable with one rider but will work beautifully for another. I do agree that some of that is about confidence - if you're relaxed then your horse is much more likely to be. But it's also about allowing the horse to do what you ask. IMO it is the riders job to make everything he or she asks of the horse as easy as possible.

It's a difficult thing to address though as not many people can afford the endless lessons probably required to turn them into a rider fully in control of their movements and in tune with their horse. I think fitness is a big help though - a rider who is aware of exactly what their body is doing and can control that is going to have a huge advantage.
 
I think this thread should be made a sticky, there are so many valid points about the riders way of going - new riders, returning riders & existing ones (especially those who havent had riding assesed for a long time) all really should take note :)

Me? I look at the overall picture too, not just from the horses perspective. By no means am I perfect in the saddle as am prob classed as a 'work rider' who gets results but overall could do with a tidy up on occasions - but I love to get to the bottom of peoples problems with their horses.

:)
 
skewby said:
You clearly don't have a "poor position" if horses go well for you. But, confidence is a good point. If you are confident, then you are relaxed, which IMHO allows the horse to do what is being asked of it, and gets positive results. Without even going into the dynamics of how they respond to us if we are confident but if we are remotely doubtful they know it, and either dissolve or take charge themselves.
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No I really do I promise, not terrible but not great! I'm talking about everything other than flat work/dressage where they don't go so great for me, so probably my fault, certainly wouldn't blame the horse! ;)
 
blitznbobs said:
Not sure I agree with this, my big fella would bite or kick you soon as look at you but is the safest, nicest ride (well he was before his hock became too arthritic to ride him on he's 24 now)... I put a 6 year old on him and novice 18 year old and he was totally safe but his pirouettes were so good that Stephen Clarke used to borrow him to demo them!
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Yes I know what you mean but I don't think your quoted poster meant that, I think she meant (and she will please correct me if I am wrong) horses that are bargy and rude on the ground JUST because they can be and have learned how to be and not been stopped, are not going to be good under saddle because they will continue their "I am doing what I please" attitude.

Horses which are "funny" on the ground in the way of ears back, biting/kicking in my limited experience are the ones who have been manhandled at some point.
 
I watched a lesson last week by an FBHS. One of the riders, quite advanced, was scrubbing with her seat so blocking the movement, then kicking with her legs to try to get him forward. Eventually the horse fly bucked - to my eyes he was saying he was doing his best but getting nowhere. FBHS told rider to whack him as he was being insolent. Where do you go from there?
 
I love the saying "a horse knows how to be a horse, its up to the rider to allow it to be"

Of course good\bad riding affects horses, how can it not, if they can feel a fly land on them then imagine what a wobbly out of balance rider must feel like?

I hate seeing people blame horses for not going right, on the thread Wagtail mentioned the rider was nowhere near in balance (sorry!!) with the horse and was given some fantastic advice of "use 2 schooling whips to get its bum underneath him" and "kick it hard". I mean come on guys, how is the horse supposed to go when being ridden like that. I always look at myself as a rider when things are not going right and never blame the horse, giving advice like that will only make horse and rider miserable. I am not a great rider, i know my faults of which there are many but UNDERSTAND the affect i have on them and work hard to improve them.
 
intouch said:
I watched a lesson last week by an FBHS. One of the riders, quite advanced, was scrubbing with her seat so blocking the movement, then kicking with her legs to try to get him forward. Eventually the horse fly bucked - to my eyes he was saying he was doing his best but getting nowhere. FBHS told rider to whack him as he was being insolent. Where do you go from there?
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^^^^this^^^^^

is the dressage of today and quite frankly there needs to be some kind of revolution, seeing horses being abused for clearly not understanding what is being asked of them is downright sad, i have been watching the "enjoying" series on H&C tv, the dressage ones were bloody shocking.
 
to be incredibly honest i agree, my boy and i had reached a point where we were struggling. after the usual checks i went to a dessage clinic, got told to slightly alter my position (not easy when you've had same position for 6 years!) and now voila we're more in tune and moving really well! my riding has improved and so has he! definately need to get your riding checkd before you think about a horse being naughty or bad!
 
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