Possible debate - is stabling 24/7 cruel?

As long as the horse is happy and getting exercise then i cant see a problem.

Both mine are out on alternate days all year round, and over the winter will be spending more time in depending on how their paddocks are holding up.
 
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as someone earlier said - might not be ideal but it is not cruel

all horses should - as part of their training - be taught to be stabled 24x7 for periods of time. Then - as happens with riding horses - when they are injured they don't undo healing work by behaving like total morons 'cos they aren't turned out.



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Which is more important - physical or mental health? Whilst I agree that sometimes horses have to be stabled, and I box rest mine (but not usually for minor lameness) I think people overlook physical problems caused by stabling - RAO, ulcers, and stable vices which may be stress indicators.
 
I think that it is cruel if not required. Of course there are times when a horse must be kept in for veterinary reasons or whatever. But in most cases I think horses should never be stabled 24/7. Its totally and utterly un-natural and goes against everything they are! A stable is not big, I just imagine shutting a dog in a biggish box 24/7. Same thing in my opinion. Horses should be out grazing and being a horse basically. If its due to lack of grazing, no offence but I think that is the issue needing sorted! I wouldn't even consider owning a horse if I didnt have the land for them.

I think that those who say their horse "likes" being stabled or "wants to come in" if he's out are simply seeing a horse sticking to his routine. You couldn't just chuck a racehorse who'd lived in a stable out into a field straight away! He wouldn't have a clue and would likely freak out. But if done slowly I think any horse would prefer to be out. There are some exceptions of course, but most I firmly believe would like to be out. One of mine was stabled a lot in the past - he was extremely quiet when I got him, he would stand in the field looking totally miserable but after a month he finally opened up and now has made a best friend who he plays with and lies fast asleep in the sun. I wouldnt take that away from any horse. And he came from Portugal (TB x Lusitano) so was certainly not used to our Scottish weather! However, he is hunter clipped and well rugged / fed all winter and is very happy. But at the same time ALL my horses who live out are fine to be stabled if needed like at shows.
 
I think horses should be out for as long as possible, when people say that the horses ask to come in i believe that is because they are 'programmed' to come in at a certain time, my mare is out 24/7 but may come in over winter when i can guarentee after a couple of weeks she will be waiting at the gate at the correct time to be brought in!
 
this is one subject that you and i actually agree on, MM!!
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i cannot understand livery yards having "restricted" turnout?
why?
what is the reason for this?

probably far too many horses on too small acreage....

i may be wrong....
...but there is a livery yard near me that has 20 horses and 6 acres of turnout...hence they are "in" 6 months of the year...i personally wouldn't take my horse there..but it always has horses/ponies in and out...
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I would not say it is being cruel but it is far from ideal and I would not consider doing it myself unless for medical reasons.

A horse may appear to be happy with it, this is because its what its used to, a horse cannot show its feelings as a human can, and when they object we usually tell them off. Horses get used to routene so if they are used to being stabled and turned out for 30mins then if you try and turn them out for longer it will confuse them, which is why they appear to be waiting to come in.

I keep my horse in at night in the winter (all the horses on the yard have to come in at night in the winter), yes he appears to want to come in as he stands by the gate at 4.30pm after a few weeks, but this is just because he has adapted to the routene and would probably be happy to stay out all night.

I think it will put a strain on the horse mentally, it is stuck in a stable and the only contact it gets is when we allow it. Horses are heard animals and need to socialise naturally with other horses and behave like horses are supposed to. It is the same as a person being locked in a room with some food, water and a bed and only having any contact with anyone else if the door was unlocked and someone came in. It would drive you mad, although after time you would get used to it and it would apper normal. However in the long term it would affect your mental health.
 
I wonder how they are asking to come in? If they are hanging round the gate then maybe they are expecting food/attention rather than wanting to come in and stay in.
My nags live out 24/7...I don't know if they prefer it but I feel its better/healthier for them. When I arrive to see them in the winter they bomb over if I'm feeding but not particularly if I don't. They're not asking to come in I don't expect but just wondering if I have something edible about me. I have no problem with people stabling if required but do think 24/7 is too much.
Do you think if we called a stable a cage instead, like we do with other animals, we may feel differently?..
 
I have limited TO in the winter as if I trash my paddock I am in the doo doo for the rest of the year - I do try and get them out as much as possible but my paddock resembles a lake if it has been raining
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We have a walker and they do not seem to be overly bothered at all - plus we do have enormous pens and they can interact over the walls so they do not live in 12 x 12s or lack equine interaction.
 
The stables I ride at has a massive acreage (big estate - plenty for all of the horses). They also have a river running through the grounds, are on heavy clay in a wet bit of the country, so the ground gets very soft and soggy very quickly. Certainly the road verges (which are higher than a lot of the fields) are exceptionally soft...

The turnout is great in summer, but in the middle of winter the ground is just soggy and holding, which isn't good for the horses anyway.
 
i k now a horse who is in 24/7, he is exercised twice a day & seems happy.

have had to do it with fizz during the summer & didn't like it.
 
I do believe that to permanently keep a horse stabled 24/7 all yr round with the exception of ridden exercise is very sad for the horse. I would go so far as to say it is potentially cruel. I would not want any horse of mine to exist that way.
 
The horses are out in summer and come in when the fields get too wet in winter. They go out again when the fields are fit to be used. I think that's the best anyone can do really - unless we all move to the nice dry free draining bits of the country...
 
Mine goes out in the day in summer and is in all winter. He has an hour out in the school and is then ridden as well. He is very happy munching his hay and doesnt seem bothered by being stabled. I try to put him out in the winter paddock for a couple of hours at the weekend as well. My other horse goes out in the winter paddock in the day. If I put them out together they fight and come in injured. I dont think I am being cruel and try to manage my 3 acres as well as I can. The summer fields have been harrowed, rolled and are now being rested until the spring so as to ensure they have excellent grazing for the whole summer. If i left them out in the summer paddock all winter it would become poached and pretty useless.
 
Personally I think keeping any horse or pony stabled 24/7 even if it is being exercised once a day is cruel as it's so far from what nature intended and they would have social contact with other horses etc. I acknowledge that some times stabling 24/7 for short periods is necessary. Some turnout is always possible if people are prepared to make extra effort, those who don't care about their horses well being enough to make the effort to find some sort of turnout year round shouldn't have horses in my opinion.
 
Where I did my training at Brompton Barracks there was no turnout at all. The yard was in the middle of an army barracks in Chatham. It was an American barn, with the indoor school at one end so most of the time they didn't even see outside.
They were ridden 2 or 3 times a day, and with 8 grooms there all day, every day there was plenty going on for them to look at.
As far as I can remember (20 years ago) they were all fine, none of them had any stable vices and were very well looked after.
It was exciting the first time out for a hack in the spring!

They did go somewhere for 2 weeks holiday in the summer too.
 
Mines in most of the time and hes adjusted very well to it.

He has about 2 hours exercise a day and full interaction with other horses due to the layout of the stables. (An hour on the walker in the morning. An hour ridden in the afternoon and occasionally goes for afternoon strolls in hand round the grounds of the castle)

He goes out... approximately twice a week - weather dependent. This week he's been in so far because we've had enormous amounts of rain and he was just about knee deep in mud when he was out at the end of last week... which needless to say, didnt impress him a whole lot.

To those who say they adjust - id agree. Mine went from being out 8 hours a day minimum in the UK. To being out for an hour or so twice a week here. Now when we put him out, it feels like a complete waste of time since he spends most of it stood at the gate wanting to come in.

He's let loose into one of the indoor schools a couple of times a week also for a kick and a play.

I dont consider it ideal by a long shot and if everything goes ahead as planned, we'll be having our own yard built at home and he'll be with me (and then he'll be out everyday for a couple of hours, but he'll be out alone - which is yet another debate i guess.)

None of our horses show any visible signs of stress. Mines rather hyper atm but its come on very fast in the last two weeks and i think its more down to the time of year than the lack of turnout (unless hes been storing up some kind of pent up rage for 6 months which i really doubt ;p)

Its quite common over here and in many other mainland european countries to keep the horses in. I dont think its cruel; i think its a different way to manage things and i completly believe they adapt to their lifestyles.

Sure its a long way from nature.. but lets face it, most domesticated animals live routines a long way from whats natural.
 
QUOTE 'Some turnout is always possible if people are prepared to make extra effort, those who don't care about their horses well being enough to make the effort to find some sort of turnout year round shouldn't have horses in my opinion.'

Cheek! You have no idea of my circumstances and to say I dont care enough about my horse to find them year round turnout is downright rude imo. My horses are extremely well cared for, happy and healthy. What makes you the expert!!
 
I must admit that I agree that statement was rather harsh. Its not always that easy.

I have absolutly no alternative at present than keeping him in 99% of the time and im sure Im not the only person
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Also, while im sure some horses kept in arent happy and show all the typical signs of stress; not all are like this. Many of the owners with horses kept in this fashion probably spend more time exercising and interacting with their horses than those that are out most of the time.

It works both ways. While im sure there are some horses kept on yards with no turnout that are left in for days on end, perhaps with owners who turn up mid afternoon to muck out and the horse spends 90% of its time staring at a wall..... theres also the ones who have routines that do their best to make up for the lack of turnout and have the exercise and care that some horses out 24/7 should be getting rather than being ignored and just left because its "ok" - its natural right? ;p
 
Horses get used to things just as humans can, so they can get used to being kept in. Personally I think it's wrong to expect that of them, and not the best for their health and wellbeing. I can say hand on heart that if I had to stable mine 24/7 I wouldn't have horses. If other people choose to make that compromise for their horse then I guess that's up to them.
Is it cruel? Well, I think it is a bit really, because you are depriving them of the physical movement that is best for their limbs and lungs, and the social interaction with other horses. Putting them on a horse walker or "exercising" them is a poor substitute. I suppose it's no more cruel than people who keep dogs shut up in one room all their lives only taking them out for a daily walk. That's just my opinion and I know lots of people, in particular those who do stable 24/7 will disagree.
 
But if you read my previous posts properly you will see they are not in 24/7. He gets turned out for an hour loose in the sandschool when i get home from work, plus he is ridden, plus he gets out for a bit at weekends. He is far happier then the horse thats kept in the field behind mine whos owner is never there, it stands out in all weathers looking miserable.
If I had another 10 acres it wouldnt be a problem, however I dont. The horse is happy and shows no signs of stress or boredom. Like all domestic animals, the things we do with them is not a re-creation of the wild. If it was we wouldnt be riding them and taking them out in lorries!
 
To me, cruel is depriving a horse of food or water and causing it pain/allowing it to suffer.

I have no problem with stabling 24/7 so long as the horse either gets exercised or led out daily.
 
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He gets turned out for an hour loose in the sandschool when i get home from work, plus he is ridden, plus he gets out for a bit at weekends.

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I understand that, to me that isn't sufficient, but to you it is, so we just agree to differ.
There are 168 hours in a week, if a horse gets put in a sandschool for an hour and ridden for an hour 5 days a week, then maybe 2 hours hack Sat and Sun, with say 4 hours turnout on those days... he's been doing something for 22 hours, and shut in for 146. Plus, when he's been out of the stable much of the time it has been to work, not relaxed socialisation with other horses. I wouldn't keep horses if I had to keep them like that, and have gone through all sorts of hoops in the past to stick by this. That's just me though, I'm not attempting to preach or convert, just giving my answer to the question.
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QUOTE 'Some turnout is always possible if people are prepared to make extra effort, those who don't care about their horses well being enough to make the effort to find some sort of turnout year round shouldn't have horses in my opinion.'

Cheek! You have no idea of my circumstances and to say I dont care enough about my horse to find them year round turnout is downright rude imo. My horses are extremely well cared for, happy and healthy. What makes you the expert!!

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I did not mean to sound rude and this is my opinion as I stated in my post. I feel that after food, water and medical care, turnout in social groups is what is most important for a horse to have and in my opinion every owner should do their best to provide this for their horses.
I have never claimed to be an expert and was just expressing my opinion on this subject and am sorry if you thought I was personally attacking the way you choose to keep your horses.

I do think people who just abandon their horse in the field and do not check on them (or have someone else check on them) daily are just as bad.
 
Sometimes though people think field-kept horses are "abandoned" and they are not. I used to rent my own little place and have 3 living out there, with good shelter on hard standing. The lady who owned the place mentioned that her nosey neighbour had spoken to her about renting the place to someone who had just turned the horses out and left them to their own devices. Well, my landlady was pleased to explain to her that, because I was self-employed and working from home, I was able to suit myself about visiting. So I'd arrive there after the neighbour had gone to work, often for hours, and oh lucky me - back home snug before the neighbour got home again.
I'm not 100% against stabling. I recently brought a horse who was used to coming in at night, and so he's continued to do so, I'm not averse to some convenience in my life, LOL! I like to know he's out with his friend every day for most of the daylight hours though. Surely it's better for their joints to have them out and wandering about as much as possible? A stable kept horse is doing short bursts of activity instead of constant movement, which can't be great. When I'm riding first thing I still turn this horse out for at least half an hour first, to let him loosen up.
Anyway, interesting discussion.
 
I have to over winter at my yard.

My preference would be to keep him out all the time 24/7.

But no I don't think it's cruel, as long as a horse is fed, wormed, exercised (if appropriate) and cared for, a stabled horse is better off than a field kept horse who is neglected.
 
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and they would have social contact with other horses

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Just gonna throw something else in here.
Say the horse goes out for a couple of hours. But has no social cantact with other horses. Is this also cruel?
 
Not cruel GlamourDol, but maybe not very kind. I know sometimes it seems best to keep a horse alone to avoid injury, or maybe that horse has issues with other horses. Mind you, it probably wouldn't have those issues if it had a background of being with other horses all it's life... just a thought that came into my head...
I know of course that horses are domesticated animals that live to work for us. However to me my side of that bargain is, in their spare time, to recognise their essential nature as herd animals and do what I can to accommodate that. I can't give them 100's of miles to roam free, but I can give them the company of a small and stable group of other equines. We're all different, but that's my sticking point - no company, no turnout, no horses for me.
By the way, I've taken 2 completely de-socialised horses at different times in the past, and managed to re-introduce them to others safely. It took time, but it was worth it to see them playing and grooming in the field with their friends. They were nicer to know, more relaxed and easier to work with once that was done as well.
Please appreciate that I'm not having a go at anyone who stables 24/7, or keeps a horse alone etc. I am just answering the questions asked from my point of view, I'm not trying to change any minds or upset anyone.
 
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