Possible reasons for weight loss

AthenesOwl

AthenesOwl

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Sorry in advance, but this is going to be a long one. Basically, I want to check what I should be asking the vet about in relation to weight loss in my horse, and if there’s anything else I should be thinking about.

I’ve had my 18 year old ISH gelding for 6 months now, and he was a reasonable weight when I got him, albeit his ribs were visible and needed to build muscle. He lost a bit of weight in the first three months that I had him, and I thought that in part this was because he was being kept at a yard where the grass was poor quality and he didn’t have ad lib access to forage in the field. I therefore moved him to a different yard, which has been excellent. The grass is much better quality, he’s got all the forage he could want, whether in or out, and his feed has been changed to provide more calories (Alfa-a chaff, senior balancer). However, he continued to lose weight, which I thought was because he needed his teeth done, which was indeed the case, and about 4 weeks ago he had extensive dental work done, including an extraction.

He’s been eating really well since then, and is currently having two daily feeds of grass nuts with linseed oil added for calories, on the vet’s recommendation, because of his diastama. He initially seemed to gain a little weight, but is now losing weight again. He’s eating well, and although he is slightly stiff on flexion in both hind legs, is sound and seems in good spirits. He’s still losing his winter coat, which is looking a bit patchy.

My yard owner, who has been very supportive, suggested a worm count and also getting the vet out to do bloods, which are being checked early next week. Can Cushings cause weight loss? I’m aware that can be a problem in older horses. Are there other things I should be asking the vet about?
 
Thanks; it's been a tricky month or so and I really hope we can figure out what's going on for him. I especially hope it's something relatively straightforward.
 
I would add some more substantial feeding to his diet something that is more fattening.
Micronised linseed I think is better than an oil. And Coolstance copra which is pure coconut. Very good for weight gain.
It could be he just needs a little bit more to keep him going. BB was not a good doer but once I found the right feed pattern for him, never lost any.
I also discovered when BB was losing weight that he has an allergy to soya and alfalfa so when those were cut out he completely changed.
 
If his bloods/worm count don't show anything, I will definitely look at his feed. He was previously on Coolstance Copra but managed to lose weight on it, although that was at his previous yard with very poor grass and inadequate forage. He's only been on the linseed oil for a few days. Before then he was getting a combination of linseed plus bog standard vegetable oil added to his grass nuts, but he wasn't very keen on that, so and my YO and I thought it might be helpful to simplify things. He's really enjoying the linseed oil rather than vegetable oil.

It does seem that feeding is a bit of a minefield, but I hadn't realised that there was the potential for allergies to feed components, so that's a good thing to consider too. And he's a big chap, at 17.2hh, so perhaps there's an element of him not getting enough to eat, as you say @Barton Bounty

I'm just back from the yard, and hadn't seen him since Wednesday (combo of work and an ill parent). He's looking very poor, although perhaps I'm just increasingly sensitive to it.
 
My Old Lady lost a lot of weight last year, to the extent I was worried. My checklist was
Teeth
Worms (that was as far as I got, as it was the teeth)
But then my mental list for further checks if necessary was
Bloods for liver and kidney function and cushings

Once teeth sorted, I had her on extensive feeding program for weeks of 3 meals a day of grass and lucern nuts, a bit of flaked corn for flavour and oil. That really did the trick and she's looking great on a fair bit less feed now. I sent her "menu" to a friend for another livery at her yard that just wasn't keeping his weight on at only 11yo and nothing was coming up in the regular checks. He's now also doing fine.
 
When my old mare was struggling to put weight on at the end of winter a few years ago, I started her on Spillers senior super mash. She does very well on it, I add some linseed oil for extra calories.
 
I have a horse that's at least 17h, at this size they can need a lot of forage to hold their weight and sometimes it just isn't enough. Mine gets 2 kg of grass/alfalfa nuts with micronised linseed and over the winter got a small haynet (about 2kg) of alfalfa haylage as well as adlib hay. He didn't put weight on, just maintained it.

If your having bloods run, make sure it includes liver and kidney function.

Hopefully now the teeth are sorted it's just a matter of increasing the calories a bit.
 
AthenesOwl said:
If his bloods/worm count don't show anything, I will definitely look at his feed. He was previously on Coolstance Copra but managed to lose weight on it, although that was at his previous yard with very poor grass and inadequate forage. He's only been on the linseed oil for a few days. Before then he was getting a combination of linseed plus bog standard vegetable oil added to his grass nuts, but he wasn't very keen on that, so and my YO and I thought it might be helpful to simplify things. He's really enjoying the linseed oil rather than vegetable oil.

It does seem that feeding is a bit of a minefield, but I hadn't realised that there was the potential for allergies to feed components, so that's a good thing to consider too. And he's a big chap, at 17.2hh, so perhaps there's an element of him not getting enough to eat, as you say @Barton Bounty

I'm just back from the yard, and hadn't seen him since Wednesday (combo of work and an ill parent). He's looking very poor, although perhaps I'm just increasingly sensitive to it.
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I know how you feel, the vet advised me to simplify things and BB lost weight, I was at my wits end and so I read up on nutrition and educated myself and made my own plan.
He will need a fair feed to keep him going and put on just now, but hopefully once you have something that works it will be easier for you.
 
Feed wise have you weighed out the recommended daily amount for his size? It's likely more than you think. Most leisure horses don't need anywhere near the recommend amount so often people are not used to feeding those quantities. I find older poor doers ofter need it.
 
nutjob said:
I have a horse that's at least 17h, at this size they can need a lot of forage to hold their weight and sometimes it just isn't enough. Mine gets 2 kg of grass/alfalfa nuts with micronised linseed and over the winter got a small haynet (about 2kg) of alfalfa haylage as well as adlib hay. He didn't put weight on, just maintained it.

If your having bloods run, make sure it includes liver and kidney function.

Hopefully now the teeth are sorted it's just a matter of increasing the calories a bit.
Click to expand...

I’ll be sure to ask the vet what bloods they plan to do, and make sure they include liver/kidneys. I’m a doctor and like to know exactly what investigations are being done. I’m probably a bit of a client from hell, to be honest, always asking questions!

Barton Bounty said:
I know how you feel, the vet advised me to simplify things and BB lost weight, I was at my wits end and so I read up on nutrition and educated myself and made my own plan.
He will need a fair feed to keep him going and put on just now, but hopefully once you have something that works it will be easier for you.
Click to expand...

That’s interesting. With horse ownership being so new to me, I expect to be able to trust the vet, but it seems like doing my own research might not be such a bad plan. If his bloods etc come back as normal, of course.

At my wits end is exactly how I feel. I felt terrible when I went up this evening and saw him looking all thin, but his usual adorable and cheeky self.

mini-eventer said:
Feed wise have you weighed out the recommended daily amount for his size? It's likely more than you think. Most leisure horses don't need anywhere near the recommend amount so often people are not used to feeding those quantities. I find older poor doers ofter need it.
Click to expand...

I haven’t, but I will do when I go to the yard tomorrow. I’ll see exactly how much he should be getting.
 
For a comparison, this is Orbi, he is 17.2

All winter he has been on

1/2 dry scoop of speedi mash(obviously it gets soaked before feeding)
Full scoop of apple chaff
Full scoop of nuts and 1/4 scoop of micronised linseed.

Twice per day
Unlimited hay

Thats not a lot of feed compared to what I used to feed my last boy who was smaller. IMG_5044.jpeg
 
I’m just back from the yard, and he is getting the recommended quantity of his current feed. Plus he’s quite happy to eat alongside his field mates from the hay that’s out for them, which had been another worry.

I’ve had a good read about Cushings and I’m increasingly convinced that is the problem. He’s got the weight loss, lack of top line muscle (despite working on improving this), pot belly and patchy coat. And when I discussed it with my yard owner, she said that he drinks a lot, and also pees more than she’d expect. I’m definitely going to discuss this with the vet tomorrow and ask them to test for Cushings.

If the bloods and worm count come back normal, it may simply be a case of not being fed enough of the right things, in which case I’ll take a good look at what’s going to be best for him. I don’t want to change anything until he’s had his investigations completed though.
 
If it is Cushings, which sounds likely, and he gets medicated for it you will likely see an improvement quite quickly. Mine stopped the excessive drinking and peeing within two weeks.
 
Gloi said:
If it is Cushings, which sounds likely, and he gets medicated for it you will likely see an improvement quite quickly. Mine stopped the excessive drinking and peeing within two weeks.
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That’s good to know.

The vet asked right from the off if I had any ideas, so I told her, and she said “probably” before I even told her why I thought that. So no arguments about the Cushings test, and got the rest of his bloods done too. He was as good as gold, and results will be back later in the week.
 
AthenesOwl said:
That’s good to know.

The vet asked right from the off if I had any ideas, so I told her, and she said “probably” before I even told her why I thought that. So no arguments about the Cushings test, and got the rest of his bloods done too. He was as good as gold, and results will be back later in the week.
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Sounds likely, but just monitor his response to the recommended dose of meds (Pergolide, Praescend):
Elderly Welsh C; coat issues, laminitic episode, loosing weight etc, etc; so, bloods positive, onto the tablets - and promptly STOPPED eating.
Almost as though her lips had been sewn, she ran up like a starved herring within a couple of days, and we were frantic.
Ceased all meds, which did start her eating again, then slowly introduced a fraction of the originally prescribed dose (which was all that proved necessary), although another three months to normalise her weight.
Apparently dramatic responses are not unknown, as our vet recounted, and I’ve subsequently heard of similar cases.
The old lady lived to be forty, permanently on minimal Pergolide. Good luck!
 
Exasperated said:
Sounds likely, but just monitor his response to the recommended dose of meds (Pergolide, Praescend):
Elderly Welsh C; coat issues, laminitic episode, loosing weight etc, etc; so, bloods positive, onto the tablets - and promptly STOPPED eating.
Almost as though her lips had been sewn, she ran up like a starved herring within a couple of days, and we were frantic.
Ceased all meds, which did start her eating again, then slowly introduced a fraction of the originally prescribed dose (which was all that proved necessary), although another three months to normalise her weight.
Apparently dramatic responses are not unknown, as our vet recounted, and I’ve subsequently heard of similar cases.
The old lady lived to be forty, permanently on minimal Pergolide. Good luck!
Click to expand...
Yes definitely start on a low dose. Mine still ate hay and grass fine but wouldn't touch low sugar feeds. He would eat molasses mix he wasn't meant to have though, but fortunately he'd never been laminitic.
 
Bloods came back this afternoon and the vet described them as “perfect”, so it’s not Cushings, or anything else scary that would show on a full set of bloods. I’m still waiting on the result of the worm count, but otherwise it’s all about getting enough calories into him, and working on building muscle.

She felt that having dental problems, a tooth extraction and stress from all that, plus still being early days in terms from recovery, probably explains it. I guess we’re also coming out of winter, and he’s moved twice since November, once to live with me in the first yard I had him in, which was a very busy place, and again a few months ago.

I’m going to have a look at senior mashes, as the vet suggested, and try to work out what’s going to be best for muscle building.
 
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