Possibly I should be offended...

[Pippity]

My vet practice is getting Gemma Pearson (behaviourist) down from Edinburgh, partly to give a talk to clients and partly to give the vets some training in dealing with recalcitrant horses. They need a demo horse for the training part of the visit.

My vet: "I immediately thought of Blue!"

Okay, she does have a few... foibles, but I don't think she's that bad! She just has very strong opinions about things! Especially things that vets want to do to her!

I'm taking her along anyway, though. Anything that makes her easier for people to handle (especially people other than me) is a good investment of time.

 

[Melody Grey]

Take it as a compliment that your vet thinks you are open minded, ready to learn and (hopefully) unlikely to be offended!

 

[Bonnie Allie]

Gosh no. They have said that as they know you are open minded and value learning. My guess (and this I’d only from reading your posts) is you come across as an intelligent and considered person who values learning as well as sharing experiences with others.

 

[Carrottom]

I agree with others, it is your horse not your child ? hopefully everyone will benefit.

 

[Trouper]

Never look a gift horse in the mouth.............

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

I get that occasionally, not because E is in anyway difficult but because he's huge so no amount of 'force' will ever win. He is intelligent, learns quickly, always wants to please and responds well without food based bribery. It makes him perfect for demonstrating this sort of thing. He also has an excellent attention span and can learn and work for hours without getting bored. He walks nicely on a slack extended lead rope (normal lead rope isn't long enough to lead from his shoulder).

There's no better compliment.

 

[Pippity]

We went along yesterday, and it was really interesting.

For the first hour, I sat in on the theory training for the vets/nurses, going over how horses learn, the difference between negative/positivive reinforcement/punishment, how arousal levels influence behaviour, etc. Gemma then went over the basics of clicker training, and showed some videos of horses she'd trained in the past. She also showed an old video where she'd 'flooded' the horse, and said that's not something she'd do now, largely because it distresses the horse but, from a practical view, because it makes it harder for the horses to learn. What we're looking for is a low-arousal, happy state - head between withers and knees, ears relaxed, muscles soft, eyelids round.

When Gemma's doing a full course on clicker training, she has the students clicker train each other. This is a really good way of making them understand how important the timing is, and how frustrating it is when the timing isn't consistent because they can't figure out what it is they're meant to be doing.

We then went on to the demo horses. My Blue was up first. She's really bad with having her feet handled, so the aim was to get her a little bit better, and give me the tools to continue to work with her at home.

She was quite stressed from the moment I went to get her from her box - circling to avoid her headcollar, and head up high. She relaxed a little bit on the walk to the x-ray room (where the demo was being done) but tensed up again inside. She's been x-rayed a couple of times, so doesn't have the best associations with that room, and it probably didn't help that there were a dozen strangers staring at her. She was definitely NOT in a low-arousal, happy state!

She very quickly learned that the clicker meant food, but was too tense to eat the food properly, with a lot of it ending up on the floor while she stared suspiciously at everyone surrounding her. The first step was to click for her foot coming off the floor for even a moment. Unfortunately, she's a smart wee cookie and figured out that taking a step forward counted as her foot coming off the floor. So then she only got a click if she didn't step forward. This gradually progressed to a click for holding it up for a little longer. After ten minutes or so, she was popped back in her box, and one of the vets brought their horse in.

This was a horse without any behavioural issues, who was just being used to demonstrate the safest way of performing various routine veterinary procedures - listening to the heart/gut sounds, taking the temperature, injecting, applying eye medication.

That took about twenty minutes, and then we were back to Blue. She was in a much lower-arousal state when she came into the x-ray room this time, and we were able to pick up exactly where we'd left off. At one point, Gemma held her leg up for a bit too long, and it was fascinating to see how just that one bad experience set everything back. The timing and slow progression really is important. Gemma also pointed out that, when I'm working with her at home, it's not a case of holding up for one second, then two seconds, then five seconds, etc. I need to do one, one, two, five, one, two, two, ten, etc., and keep it random, so I'm not just asking for more and more each time.

Blue's not generally an affectionate horse, but during the little breaks in the session where Gemma stepped away, Blue would turn to me and rest her head against me, which was bizarrely touching!

Gemma pointed out that it's generally harder to get results in a demo environment, because the horse is usually tense from being somewhere new, there are a lot of people watching, and Gemma herself feels under pressure to get results. Even so, I was really pleased with the progress, and I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what I can do with Blue.

Of course, after telling everybody that she's no problem to load, it then took me a WHOLE MINUTE to get her on the lorry going home. Normally, when we're leaving the vet, she marches straight on that lorry and nobody and nothing is stopping her! It really must have been a far more pleasant vet visit than usual.

 

[ITPersonnage]

Fascinating thank you for sharing, aren't mares the best ? Love Blue and her opinions...

 

[Reacher]

I slightly misread this as being about dealing with recalcitrant owners?

 

[Tarragon]

Thanks for the report. It was very interesting.

 

[ElectricChampagne]

that is truly fascinating, thank you so much for sharing. It sounds like it was a brilliant experience.
I also think that despite Blue's tough exterior, she does trust you and rely on you, hence the cuddles!

I have a mare thats the same, very aloof and careful, never cuddles. But when she does, my god you know she loves you. Its a great feeling isn't it!

 

[Pippity]

I slightly misread this as being about dealing with recalcitrant owners?

From the stories the vets were telling, owners are often half the problem! They/We get worked up and nervous, which passes on to the horse.

 

[Pippity]

A quick update on how the clicker training is going: In short, brilliantly!

It took me a good few sessions to get the timing right. Blue knew she got a reward if I clicked, but my timing was so inconsistent that she couldn't tell how to get a click.

On Gemma's advice, I concentrated on one leg, and got that to the point where I could pick it up and hold it, without a fight, every time. I still haven't pushed her past 30 seconds, but every little bit is progress.

Tonight, I finally tried with the other front leg. It only took two clicks for Blue to figure out things worked exactly the same as on the other side.

I'm so proud of her! My farrier, my vet and Gemma all agree that she's clearly had some very unpleasant handling of her legs in the past, so it's lovely to see her standing relaxed as I mess around with her feet.

I think it'll be a long time until she can be shod without vet sedation, but we're getting there.