Post laminitis management

[Melandmary]

Just after some reassurance really about how normal a life my horse will have post laminitis. I am currently at my wits end worrying over everything. She came down with lami on Friday. Vet came out straight away, then farrier for heart bar shoes. She is on boxrest now for a month on a deep bed with soaked hay. We will reevaluate next week when she comes off the bute. I have had her 5 years and this is the first time she has had it. I am blaming the frosty grass and myself for having run out of hay. I am worrying about how much I will have to micro manage her turnout when she will be allowed out. I want her to be able to go out with her companions but worried about how much grass she will be allowed access to. Any advice, positive outcomes on how you manage your post laminitics will help me prepare for what I need to do going forward. Obviously I know she needs to lose weight and she will never be allowed out on frosty grass again.

 

[Zuzan]

No comment on the shoeing .. my horse is barefoot. She got lami last spring almost a year ago now.. watching her like a hawk of course now but she is out 24/7 and I'm feeding haylage and Alfa blox am and pm. Last Spring she came out of winter with too much weight and having never had lami I took my eye off the ball. Luckily we didn't have any rotation and she was sound on her deep bed within 12 hrs and she dropped weight very quickly / easily. By late summer last year I was confident about leaving her to graze old grass.

I feed a barefoot friendly diet (micronised linseed, alfa nuts, a mineral supplement that covers Cu, Zn and Se I add in my own MagOx and Vit E) I also started supplementing her with a mix of Milk Thistle seeds and Dandelion and Burdock root that I feed periodically and after worming. Plus hand picked Clivers, Nettles and Hawthorne shoots / leaves. plu some other things I found in the hedgerows like raspberry leaves / shoots, ground elder etc. Whilst she was off grass I think she really appreciated her "salads".

The thing to remember is the grass (frosty / stressed or not) is just the trigger .. what makes a horse susceptible is being over weight .. and or EMS / PPID .. did your vet do tests for these to rule them out ..?

Have you had a look at the https://www.thelaminitissite.org/diet.html

Might also be worth talking to an independent (not associated with a feed company) nutritionist if you feel adjusting her diet might help.

 

[meleeka]

Get in the habit of checking digital pulses at least daily. That’s usually an early warning and they’ll be bounding even if no other symptoms are present. Introduce grass gradually and give the horse as much exercise as you can. I’ve found that being active is a good preventative.

 

[MuddyMonster]

Honestly? It probably will take a fair bit of micro managing but it does get easier once you're in a routine & now it's just normal. It was a big shock at first though!

Have you x-rayed the foot/feet? As knowing what you're working with helps the remedial shoeing or trimming. Mine is barefoot too and I honestly do find it helps monitor the smallest of changes.

I monitor digital pulses all the time now too.

Diet is obviously really important. You want as low % of sugar & starch as possible. Chaff wise, I've found the Honeychop Chopped Oat straw the lowest. IMHO don't be guided solely by the Laminitus Trust approved feeds, as companies can buy the rights to use that. I find mine does better with a higher percentage of magnesium oxide too.

Grazing muzzles hugely helped the amount of turn out mine was allowed when on grass - he's now living out on on grass free turn out which makes a big difference but appreciate that's not easy if a yard locally isn't offering it.

Night turn out can help too as sugars can be lower - it's not just frost, I found lots of rain & sun and rain after a long period of dry could also trigger it.Strip grazing or setting up a small track can help too.

I presume you're soaking hay? I found buying dustbins with the valve at the bottom so much easier for drain out the water rather than having to tip it out. Then rinsing it thoroughly to make sure any excess sugar also comes off.

Smaller holes haynets really help slow down their consumption - I use Nibbleze as they are knocked so better for their teeth.

Mine actually had a mild bout of laminitis recently which we tested for EMS and PPID and he tested positive for PPID so just started treatment for it. Before that, he was 9 years free of laminitis.

When sound and vet gives you the sign off, exercise is really key in keeping them fit and at a healthy weight. I found changing my mindset to riding was a 'nice to do if I had the time in the week's to 'I need to ride' really helped. I changed my bedding so I didnt need to do a full muck out every day helped & just got organised with my time. The more mine does, the better he is ?

I downloaded the laminitis app too - it really made me appreciate when turned out on grass how often it was 'dangerous'.

Good luck! Do keep us updated how it all goes.

 

[QuantockHills]

I've got a rescue who's had lami recently in the frost. i manage him carefully... in the winter he goes out with my 17hh irish Draught (he's 11hh) and they come in at night. in the spring / autumn he has a long strip the whole length of the field (about 6 ft wide) so he can keep level with my horse but have limited grass. The water is at one end and shade at the other so he's on the move a lot, (sadly a circular track is not an option with my field, but this would have been better). in the summer he's on the long track but in during the day. He only ever has hay that's been soaked for 24 hours and thoroughly rinsed, i double net it and it swings from the middle of the stable, so takes him a long time to eat it. sadly he wont keep a grazing muzzle on (i've tried and tried believe me!), he gets lunged and walked round the village, and ride and lead in the field to keep him as trim as possible.

 

[lottiepony]

Do you know why she got the laminitis? Sounds dumb but depending on that answer will dictate a lot of your management going forwards - so was it down to just being overweight or is there an underlying condition i.e. cushings, EMS. It could be worth exploring this if you're not already as with cushings medication will really help going forwards.
Lots of good advice above, agree with the others in that exercise really plays a major role in things going forward. Also read up about track systems, not sure what your set up is as to whether this is doable but it makes things so much easier if you can. When I was able to have one it revolutionised how I managed weight control in my good doer cob and Shetland.
It is rubbish, won't lie, but you will be ok. Certain things will just become second nature and I can assure you that any horse you own going forwards will benefit as you will become so much more aware and do everything to avoid it.

 

[HollyWoozle]

I think it all comes down to your turnout options in the long-run. It sounds like you keep your mare at home and therefore can be a bit flexible in what you do? That would be great. In my experience so far, a bare paddock is really the easiest and best solution but not always practical if you're on livery.

We have a mini with EMS who came down with a bad case of lami in Feb 2020 (before EMS diagnosis). My parents bought him in Nov 2019 and when our farrier saw him and was like "uh oh..." recognising him from his previous home, I realised their mistake. He was on box rest for some time and he is still a work in progress, but now we have a pretty good set-up for him and he is out 24/7 with good shelter. He lives in a small, separate paddock to the main field which is almost bare of grass and eats well-soaked hay (12 hours ish) which is weighed and in small-hole nets (Shires ones are great), a lite balancer with a small amount of lite chaff (as he is currently on Metformin) and a small amount of linseed. He was lonely in there, despite the others being just over the fence, and so in March we added a loan pony friend for him and that has really settled him.

I think it varies a lot between cases and depends on why your mare came down with lami, as others have said, but that getting them off the grass is really the best thing you can do, be that with a bare paddock, a track system or a muzzle if necessary. Our setup/routine really isn't that much work now that we are in the swing of it.

 

[dreamcometrue]

My pony had it six years ago, shortly after I bought her. She had to be turned out full time on Spring grass because of a strangles outbreak at the yard and I didn’t know she was laminitis-prone. She hasn’t had it since.
I turn her out every day on sparse grazing but between now and November I limit her grass intake. She is muzzled if the grass is long enough and if it is too short for the muzzle she isn’t muzzled but obviously can’t eat too much. She generally is out for around 6 hours during these months.
I ride her a lot. At least 1.5 to 2h 6 days a week. I think the exercise is the key thing, to increase the metabolism of the sugars.
Every day when I bring her in I watch her walking, sometimes I turn her in tight circles each way to check and I always check her pulses. She has a low sugar balancer -Spillers Lite and Lean and her forage is hay which I soak if I am at all concerned about her weight or the current grazing conditions.
It sounds daunting but you get used to it. X

 

[Melandmary]

Thankyou so much for all these replies., it really makes me feel a bit better. In answer to some questions (my brain isn't functioning well enough for quotes). My pony is overweight, in part due to moving her home where I have far more grass than she had at livery and partly because the companion pony I got for her wouldn't stay on its own that I have barely ridden a handful of times since the move in December. The vet didn't test for ems but I caught it early and he advised to attack it rigorously because she is a very heavyweight traditional cob and small feet. I cannot feel a pulse because she is full feather but I will try harder. I have spent all winter trying to deal with the companions anxiety issues/ mites/ poor skin health that I took my eye of the ball with my ridden one. I am able to create starvation paddocks and to be honest the troublesome companion could very well do with being in there herself. I will have a reread through all these as there were lots of useful tips.

 

[HollyWoozle]

It really sounds like you are on the case with it and I am sure will sort something suitable out!

 

[Melandmary]

Re being barefoot my pony's feet are small and she is pigeon toed so they wear very unevenly. She was barefoot when I got her but soon realised that if she was to be ridden she would have to be shod. Vet hasn't xrayed yet.... He said to call back middle of next week once she is off the bite to reevaluate next step. She is not footy now when I tie her up to skip out though her fronts did feel warm this morning yet prior there was no heat. Vet advised to stand her in buckets of cold water but this isn't going down well so I am going to hose them. Aside from her weight and lack of exercise it is either the frost or the fact that last week I added linseed oil and brewers yeast to their diet. Previously all she has ever had is a token gesture of high fibre nuggets to come in to her stable to.

 

[Casey76]

So sorry you’re having to deal with this.

As others have mentioned, laminitis is a symptom of an underlying problem, not a one-and-done thing itself, and you need to identify the underlying condition and address it to speed the recovery from laminitis and prevent recurrence.

I’d kindly suggest you get her tested for EMS/IR as this will have an impact of her ongoing management.

There is a whole lot of information on https://ecir.groups.io/g/main it’s very US oriented, and can be prescriptive, but definitely have a wealth of knowledge on laminitis.

In the meantime, all forage should be soaked for at least an hour, unless you have testing available which identifies ESC+starch <10%; Feed either 1.5% of her current weight or 2% of her ideal weight - whichever is *greater* - this may need to be split into multiple feedings throughout the day, or fed from slow feeding nets so that she isn’t without hay for more than 4 hours at a time.

During the acute phase she should be encouraged to lie down as much as possible; however once the acute phase is over, the self-guided movement is much better than total box rest.

X-rays after 1 week to check if there is any rotation, and then vet and farrier can coordinate for foot management.

Getting weight off her will be critical for ongoing management, but life after acute laminitis is possible

good luck!

 

[Melandmary]

Thankyou, yes she has a 10 day supply of sedation. I am feeding her 2% of her ideal weight soaked for between 7 and 12 hours double netted. I am arranging a weigh bridge to come so I have a more accurate idea of her weight. I see quite a few people are encouraging me to test for ems so I will do this when the vet next comes out, I am not sure if he is going to xray. Tbh I was a bit of a wreck when he came, ponio has never had a sick or sorry day in her life and I was panicked

 

[Zuzan]

This kind of thing is always a bit of a shock to the system .. fully understand that. I know I had a least one sleepless night over it all and feeling dreadfully guility about it..

I personally wouldn't worry about the weighbridge and would rely more heavily on a really close detailed look at condition scoring.. as per all the different points to monitor.. as I think this is a better way for owners to monitor condition / weight on a routine basis. Looking at a detailed condition score can be really helpful in on going management.

Might be worth weighbridging once down to ideal weight and then weight tape to callibrate that way you can monitor more regularly and accurately .. understand what ideal weight is etc. You know she is over weight now so not much point knowing what she weighs now..

 

[meleeka]

I’m not sure getting a diagnosis of EMS is necessary. I think you just need to treat her as such anyway with regards to diet.

My cob has a full feathers. I find it easier to find the pulse at the fetlock, but there are a few places if you google. It’a worth noting that it’s very hard to find when normal,’so it’s a good idea to master it while they are elevated.

it sounds as though you’ll be able to manage her well going forward, so try not to stress too much!

 

[hobo]

great post meland mary as I am just going through the same thing and it is very scary. My mare is 21 and vet did test for cushings and she came back positive. I have x-rays tomorrow which is one week in which I thought was early but on reading Caseys post is spot on. I am floating between this is the end and it will be ok though my mare has been having hindleg lameness issues so I know on the riding front that is it but I hope she can have a nice retirement.
My first pony had an attack aged about 10 and she was still in work in her mid twenties when I finally lost her so there are various outcomes lets cross our fingers for both of them.

 

[meleeka]

great post meland mary as I am just going through the same thing and it is very scary. My mare is 21 and vet did test for cushings and she came back positive. I have x-rays tomorrow which is one week in which I thought was early but on reading Caseys post is spot on. I am floating between this is the end and it will be ok though my mare has been having hindleg lameness issues so I know on the riding front that is it but I hope she can have a nice retirement.
My first pony had an attack aged about 10 and she was still in work in her mid twenties when I finally lost her so there are various outcomes lets cross our fingers for both of them.

A positive diagnosis for Cushings is a good thing. The medication can be wonderful. I worry less about my Cushings pony getting laminitis than I do about the other natives. She’s been living a happy life for around 8 years since diagnosis and no laminitis.

 

[SadKen]

As others have said, there will be a trigger somewhere. I have read quite a few cases of horses developing atypical lami from 'frosty grass' when the trigger was EMS and the issue was not the grass but the cold (EMS horses having trouble with circulation rather than the classic lami you see from sugar). Just a thought. I also think Casey's post is spot on.

Once she's feeling better and off box rest, if she is at home you can control movement and turnout, plus what she eats, so it is much easier than at livery - that's very positive. I'd be looking at preparing a grass free area now, if you can. If I had mine at home I would do this, because it makes management easier (mine is a big traditional girl, she has no lami and is very trim, but I treat her as if she is laminitic because it scares the sh*t out of me after my last horse had it - cushings).

Here is my girl post clip about 6 weeks ago - I think she's about right weight wise here, but I wouldn't have minded if she had dropped a little more. Please ignore the dirty feathers!



I steer well clear of rye - rye is the enemy - for feeds, my girl has TopChop Zero (basically a chopped straw), hay, and micronised linseed. I also feed magnesium, salt and a multivitamin. So far so good.

I wish you the very best of luck with your mare's recovery, it's a massively stressful process so do look after yourself as much as you are looking after her.

 

[Melandmary]

Oh my gosh she is beautiful ?. Thankyou, that is an inspiring picture because I have probably been guilty of using her breed as an excuse for her hefty size. Yes, that is why I was asking for advice because I want to prepare now the space she will have when she can go out. And how I was going to manage her being able to interact with the others without being on the grass. I am planning to split the field this weekend so the other 2 can overgraze it before she goes on it.

 

[Melandmary]

No comment on the shoeing .. my horse is barefoot. She got lami last spring almost a year ago now.. watching her like a hawk of course now but she is out 24/7 and I'm feeding haylage and Alfa blox am and pm. Last Spring she came out of winter with too much weight and having never had lami I took my eye off the ball. Luckily we didn't have any rotation and she was sound on her deep bed within 12 hrs and she dropped weight very quickly / easily. By late summer last year I was confident about leaving her to graze old grass.

I feed a barefoot friendly diet (micronised linseed, alfa nuts, a mineral supplement that covers Cu, Zn and Se I add in my own MagOx and Vit E) I also started supplementing her with a mix of Milk Thistle seeds and Dandelion and Burdock root that I feed periodically and after worming. Plus hand picked Clivers, Nettles and Hawthorne shoots / leaves. plu some other things I found in the hedgerows like raspberry leaves / shoots, ground elder etc. Whilst she was off grass I think she really appreciated her "salads".

The thing to remember is the grass (frosty / stressed or not) is just the trigger .. what makes a horse susceptible is being over weight .. and or EMS / PPID .. did your vet do tests for these to rule them out ..?

Have you had a look at the https://www.thelaminitissite.org/diet.html

Might also be worth talking to an independent (not associated with a feed company) nutritionist if you feel adjusting her diet might help.

Thankyou zuzan, that website is very informative ?

 

[Leafcutter]

This site is also excellent
https://www.talkaboutlaminitis.ie/
Good luck!

 

[Melandmary]

Thankyou I will look at that one now ?

 

[windand rain]

Pleased you are prepared to look into it and are asking the questions. 30 days off drugs on a deep bed is the advice I was given by Robert Eustace some 13 years ago. Keeping her still hence the sedation is paramount so the feet get a chance to heal. My boy was 3 when he succumbed entirely my fault as didnt think growing youngsters could get it. He is 16 now and the only way we control it is by using the winter to make him skinny and a track system in summer.
Three weeks after his months box rest think he was second that day he was 3
on the track last summer with his best mate he hasnt had laminitis since he went on the track. It is a grass track but we keep his weight under control by moving the far end to get fresh grass. the track is 10 ft wide arounf a blocked square so they have to go to the begining to get water and the end to get food in total about half an acre keeps 2 ponies all summer may to september

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Just after some reassurance really about how normal a life my horse will have post laminitis. I am currently at my wits end worrying over everything. She came down with lami on Friday. Vet came out straight away, then farrier for heart bar shoes. She is on boxrest now for a month on a deep bed with soaked hay. We will reevaluate next week when she comes off the bute. I have had her 5 years and this is the first time she has had it. I am blaming the frosty grass and myself for having run out of hay. I am worrying about how much I will have to micro manage her turnout when she will be allowed out. I want her to be able to go out with her companions but worried about how much grass she will be allowed access to. Any advice, positive outcomes on how you manage your post laminitics will help me prepare for what I need to do going forward. Obviously I know she needs to lose weight and she will never be allowed out on frosty grass again.

At least your vet diagnosed her. Mine late vets did not two years running. I lost my MOAL



I have 3 Lami case and lost my mare to it. I use Timothy hay, fibery, and Turmaric has made wonders for my boy who was on 2 hrs grazing then 4 hours in then 2 hours grazing, now he can go all day - 9 - 4. Don't turnout before 9am, and not when frosty unless after 9 and you put something else out to munch on while the remaining frost melts. Learn how to check pulses as this is your first warning along side warm feet.


Welcome to the lami group and horrid disease. The ponio has strip grazing, no muzzles as they wont keep them on

 

[brighteyes]

Do you know why she got the laminitis? Sounds dumb but depending on that answer will dictate a lot of your management going forwards - so was it down to just being overweight or is there an underlying condition i.e. cushings, EMS. It could be worth exploring this if you're not already as with cushings medication will really help going forwards.
Lots of good advice above, agree with the others in that exercise really plays a major role in things going forward. Also read up about track systems, not sure what your set up is as to whether this is doable but it makes things so much easier if you can. When I was able to have one it revolutionised how I managed weight control in my good doer cob and Shetland.
It is rubbish, won't lie, but you will be ok. Certain things will just become second nature and I can assure you that any horse you own going forwards will benefit as you will become so much more aware and do everything to avoid it.

I was waiting for someone to say this, so I shan't, but it is pivotal to the management.

Once they have had it you need to be on your guard daily.

 

[Zuzan]

@Melandmary this looks intersting ..

https://www.facebook.com/events/113050817474896/

 

[Melandmary]

I was waiting for someone to say this, so I shan't, but it is pivotal to the management.

Once they have had it you need to be on your guard daily.

I don't know how she got it other than she is overweight. Always been a big girl but was in regular work and limited grazing till I moved her home where I have been unable to ride due to companion pony's anxiety at being left. Last week I added brewers yeast and linseed to their diets mainly to help the itchy companion but I thought they would all benefit. That is the only change she has had since being here in December. I will speak to the vet when he comes back. Funnily enough the last time he came out to do a dectomax injection he said I should watch the companion for lami as she is also weighty and I said what about this one and he said she looked OK...and now this, the other way round. So the companion is going to be on restricted grazing too. The 3rd elderly companion will have to have extra time out of restricted. I am trying to work out how to meet all their different needs. I am not sure now about feeding these supplements now as both say help promote weight gain but Mary's skin has improved already.

 

[awelshandawarmblood]

Pleased you are prepared to look into it and are asking the questions. 30 days off drugs on a deep bed is the advice I was given by Robert Eustace some 13 years ago. Keeping her still hence the sedation is paramount so the feet get a chance to heal. My boy was 3 when he succumbed entirely my fault as didnt think growing youngsters could get it. He is 16 now and the only way we control it is by using the winter to make him skinny and a track system in summer. View attachment 70405
Three weeks after his months box rest think he was second that day he was 3View attachment 70406
on the track last summer with his best mate he hasnt had laminitis since he went on the track. It is a grass track but we keep his weight under control by moving the far end to get fresh grass. the track is 10 ft wide arounf a blocked square so they have to go to the begining to get water and the end to get food in total about half an acre keeps 2 ponies all summer may to september

This is what I do with mine, they have a few metres of track around the edge of 1.5 acres (ish) with trough one end & shelter the other. I've made a gate each end of the rectangle in the middle & we strip graze the middle to around halfway up the rectangle then shut that gate & go from the other end - so one half is always rested. We can always shut it all off & just feed hay in the shelter if there looks to be a flush. This works well keeping weight off they getting their steps up & also allows my friends horse who has previously had to be night turnout only due to laminitis, now live out full time with mine. My boy also has a scoop of mag ox & salt added to his tea daily.

 

[SantaVera]

soak the hay to reduce sugars.

 

[Melandmary]

It is being soaked for between 7 and 12 hours a day.... I am glad we are not on a water meter ?. Going forwards though does anyone feed low sugar haylage instead? For ease and also safety and mess. My drive is covered in hay and the water run off is going to be dangerous in winter times