Post Morton reasults back :(

B

Beatrice5

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 November 2009
Messages
1,276
Location
Somerset
Visit site
The vet called Mum today and the liver Biopsy showed she had Ragwort poisoning. This hadn't happened since we owner her I hasten to add.

I bought Poppy 3 years ago aged 13 from a lady who had had her 2 years and was very novice but I saw her paddocks and they were well maintained and clear.

But she got her from a chap who used to ride and drive pops and he got her from the Gypsy auction and she was passported by Richard Steel (?) apparently gypsys would turn up day before they would passport the horses for the following days sale.

So all this happened a long time ago but the reasults devastating. It confirms it was the right thing to let her go and the liver was trying to regenerate is a tiny area but it was severly damaged.

Mum asked me to ask you guys if there was anything she could have done if this had been spotted earlier? Would a 5 stage vetting pick up liver function and possible ragwort poisoning? Has anyone ever recovered a horse from ragwort poisoning? She didn't ask the vet as she was at work and it wasn't the time or place in a busy office to have that conversation but on reflection she is interested to know your experiences.

Many thanks guys you have been very supportive and kind x
 
At least you know what was wrong with Poppy and there was nothing you could do to change things.

I have never had a horse with ragwort poisoning but I believe the damage it does to the liver is irreversible.

The worrying thing is that most horses won't touch ragwort whilst it is growing but if it is in a field that is cut for hay it becomes very edible once it is dry and in the bale.
 
How sad..No a 5 stage vetting would not pick up on liver damage, liver damage is something that can undetected for years, it's horrible and sad, but it sounds like there was nothing more you could have done!! :(
 
Yes.

I had a mare who was very touch and go with Ragwort Poisoning. We only found out because Mum, being medical, asked for LFTs to be done!

We worked our butts off to save her. It really is hard work. Our vet commented on how he had other horses on the books less ill that would die because their owners just couldn't be bothered with the work.

But you can't beat yourselves up. I've been nagging the ILPH and readers of H&H for years to encourage blanket bloods for ragwort for this very reason.

It's lethal, unless you've experienced it once, you don't know what to look for, and it's incredably progressive :(

Dipsey Deb - Liver Function Tests (a blood test) will quite clearly show Ragwort poisoning. It doesn't go undetected for years!!
 
That is so so sad :(
My friend sold a pony last year that she'd had on her yard since it was 18 months old (then 7!). Within a few months or moving it died of acute liver failure. Like yours, the PM showed Ragwart poisoning that must have occured before it was even 18 months old. So devastating. The vet who did the PM as well as my friend's own vet confirmed that this is not something that shows up. The liver is fine fine fine fine then finished :( Stress, additional toxins, any small inflammation can send a severely damaged (Ragwart scars it as well) over the egde and there's nothing you can do. So please don't blame yourself. You did the right thing; it's just devastating that you had to go through that.
 
No, liver is not fine fine fine finished.

If it is, it makes my horse a medical marvel for showing up the percentage she did. Because she survived.

No wonder so many horses die of ragwort when so many untruths are so freely spread :(

Ragwort slowly kills off the liver bit by bit by bit. That takes time. Over the course of that time, the liver functions go down. After that, the kidneys begin to fail too. If you're very lucky, the toxins in the blood stream start to destroy your horses brain.

All of this can be shown with a simple blood test at any time.

ALWAYS test new horses for Ragwort. Else the deaths we've suffered will forever be in vain!
 
Serenity087 said:
Yes.

Dipsey Deb - Liver Function Tests (a blood test) will quite clearly show Ragwort poisoning. It doesn't go undetected for years!!
Click to expand...

Yes I know, but unless you ask for Liver function tests to be done, it wouldn't necessarily be apparent that there was any liver damage, a friend of mine lost a shetland to liver damage, she had him years and showed no signs, he then went down hill suddenly, she is very particular about her stable management, so the consencess (sp) was that the damage had been caused many years before....:(
 
I agree re testing horses for Ragwart, the's the only way to know though.

When you have a 7 yo pony that's never had an ill day in it's life in full work one moment, bright eyed, cheerful and 24 hours late smashing its head into the stable wall with acute liver failure, then that's pretty horrific and very much fine-finished. The pony had never shown any signs of liver damage let alone failure. I think it would be amazing if all horses were bloodtested but it's one thing among many and it's still pretty expensive (£70 per horse round here). Worm damage is another thing I put in a similar category, having lost a 4yo mare that I'd only owned for 9 months to terrible cecum damage caused by previous tape-worm scarring, even though the animal was at the time worm free.
 
The liver is able to maintain normal function until at least two-thirds of its tissue has been destroyed. So the ragwort toxins are able to wreak havoc in the liver without being detected. By the time the horse shows signs of liver failure the damage to the liver is so extensive that treatment is not possible.
Extract taken from this websitehttp://www.equinescienceupdate.co.uk/ragwort1.htm
 
We worked our butts off to save her. It really is hard work. Our vet commented on how he had other horses on the books less ill that would die because their owners just couldn't be bothered with the work.
Click to expand...

Would be really interested to know what you did to save her if you wouldn't mind elaborating? You never know but your info could help someone else whose horse has this problem in the future.

Bought one of mine (coloured cob, now rising 5) as a yearling from a dealer who bought him from Southall Market - he's got a Richard Steele passport.
 
Gosh I am getting Trixie tested when the vet comes to do her Jabs begining of Feb in that case.

Willow was a forest bred pony and free on the New Forest for first 7 months then to the lady I bought him off and she was very with it horse wise so he should be fine.

Henna well she was born her so again fine.

Trixie has a slightly less known past apparently roaming 40 acres for a few years so questionable past. Scary stuff and poor Mum.

She had two different vets out last year as pony was below par - nothing major just seemed to take ages to get fit and struggle with hills. Fist vet said she is old and lungy switch to shavings but not concerned to do more tests. Second vet said again didn't see anything wrong just a slightly older pony. Mum will be so cross I shall have to be careful how I feed this back to her. She said she wished she had been insistent on bloods last year already on the phone to me tonight just in case this could have been picked up sooner :(
 
I had my first boy pts because of liver disease, we never had a post mortem done because it was far too upsetting.

Liver disease is a long term thing, I was told by my vet that he had it from a very young age, I got him at two, he was pts a month before his sixth birthday, and in that time he was never exposed to any ragwort.

The liver can't recover if it is over 70% damaged. He was very poorly for about two months, and a month before that he had rapid weightloss. That was the only sign of LD, before he became very ill. We had the bloods done, confirmed liver, then a biopsy, confirmed it was very bad.

He was on steroid injections and started to show signs of improvement, but due to a serious oedema on his neck developing and him being to weak to fight off any infection, my YO went up one morning to find him very ill and we made the decision to have him pts.

I'd urge anyone to have this test done because it truly is a horrid disease!
 
Methionine. And a lot of exercise.

Excuse me forgetting, but she was diagnosed over a decade ago, so I can't remember what portion of her liver was damaged.

But she showed no physical symptoms other than losing her balance after long periods of rest (so basically, after grooming and tacking up). This made her dangerous to ride.

We needed to save her liver, kidneys and brain and work on her heart for the whole body to come together and recover.

We were told anything less than "as well as can be" and she'd need to be shot.

She stayed on methonine every day until the day she died, but it really does work at helping livers out.

Ragwort sufferers can be saved. Ignorance is almost as dangerous as the plant!
 
Beatrice5 said:
But she got her from a chap who used to ride and drive pops and he got her from the Gypsy auction and she was passported by Richard Steel (?) apparently gypsys would turn up day before they would passport the horses for the following days sale.
Click to expand...

ZarasMum said:
Bought one of mine (coloured cob, now rising 5) as a yearling from a dealer who bought him from Southall Market - he's got a Richard Steele passport.
Click to expand...

Very sorry to hear about your horse.

Just for information - Richard Steele passports are all above board but no longer deal with passports. The Donkey Breed Society now deal with any administration for Richard Steele Passports.
 
Sorry yes should have said - we did get her passport change with the Donkey breed society and that was the lady who informed about the Gypsys using Richard Steele hence confirming her heritage.

As for excersize helping liver problems - Mum is one of the few people that rides nearly every day and Poppy was becoming fit as a fiddle . Shame she didn't insist on the bloods as she may have been able to have prolonged her life but hinsight is a great thing :(
 
Beatrice, although HG is right - it is possible to keep them going, your mum really did nothing wrong. FWIW a friend did similar to HG and was unable to save her mare :(
 
Thank you Lizzie, HG had made me feel rather inadequate as I bought the pony without having a vetting and therefore inadvertantly lumbered Mum with the problem :(
 
Just for information - Richard Steele passports are all above board but no longer deal with passports. The Donkey Breed Society now deal with any administration for Richard Steele Passports
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info :)
 
Beatrice5 said:
Thank you Lizzie, HG had made me feel rather inadequate as I bought the pony without having a vetting and therefore inadvertantly lumbered Mum with the problem :(
Click to expand...

A standard 5-stage vetting would not have shown anything. Big hugs to you :( It's really a terrible thing and until blood tests specifically for organ function become commonplace (and cheaper!) during vettings, these things will continue to happen.
 
Just wanted to say so,so sorry to hear about Poppy and that you obviously did all that you could. To be honest I never realised that liver damage from ragwort could take so long to take effect and really this could happen to any one. If (heaven forbid) one of mine had colic, ragwort poisoning would be the last thing that I would think of because I am so careful with their paddocks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top