Post stroke Behavior - How spooky is too spooky ?

[super_cheval]

Hi all,

I used to be a very active member on here, left for a few years due to lack of time, life events etc. and couldn't find my old account details so had to make another one.

I often read on here but rarely bite the bullet and post.

I have owned my boy for 16 years, he is now 21 years old. He is an ex-racer who I used for hacking for many years. He has always been quite highly strung but has never been overly nervous/spooky and least of all disrespectful.
.
From what I (and my vet) can understand, my boy suffered a stroke a few years ago one summer, this was back in 2015. So now 5 years have passed.

I keep my horses at home, currently just down to my old boy and his companion pony atm, they live out 24/7 (thought it was important to share that info).

After this episode 5 years ago, my loving boy became absolutely feral. He was no longer catchable and made our lives very difficult daily. We decided to leave him be and stop riding him altogether when he was 14, he was in good shape but seeing his behavior, we decided that for everyones safety he would be retired.

After 3 years of very little interaction with humans (we would catch him just now and again to look him over, for the farrier etc.. Other than that he was untouched and left to be) His behavior improved slightly but he was still not the horse I had always known.

This has been the situation for the last 2 years, he is caught when we can manage to catch him, for basic care (grooming, hooves, rugs) only. The farrier hasn't worked on his feet for at least a year as the hoof isn't growing, they are in nice condition but they just will not grow.

However he is still so very spooky that he is totally unpredictable, he spooks on his own, or when someone moves only slightly. There is no reason at all to spook, but he does. He also still does not like any human attention at all, as soon as we go near him he will just walk away. If he feels trapped or cornered he will try and escape by all means, even if you are stood there he will knock you out of the way.

Doing chores in the morning and evening after work is becoming disheartening, I sometimes would like to just go and stroke him, but he won't be touched. He is always so grumpy and just turns his bum to me and walks away when I approach if I start reaching out to him. I sometimes think that he would have been better off being put to sleep a few years ago when the vet suggested it to us.
He is still so beautiful though, even today in his older age he is just nice to look at.

He has become so spooky and predictable that my OH, farrier and even myself have become very wary and uncomfortable around him. Which obviously does not help because I know that they can sense these kind of emotions... it's like I know exactly what will set him off and can foresee things before they even happen.

I have tried calming supplements and he seems to have no issues with eye sight.

I'm at a total loss of where to go from here.. I cannot see myself looking after him in these conditions for years to come (he is only 21!).

I'm lucky that I can keep him at home because financially he isn't costing me loads of money, it's just the hard work involved in looking after him.

Thanks for listening, am open to all suggestions..

 

[HorseyTee]

I'm by no means an expert but it sounds like he isn't enjoying much at the moment.
Is he happy enough just eating and being with his friend or is he spooky even when you aren't in the field?

I'm not sure but I'd maybe be inclined to think if my animal seemed to be stressed and unhappy then I'd rather let them go peacefully.

But as I say I'm pretty novice still so maybe other people could suggest some thing more helpful.
It must be hard for you.

 

[ycbm]

I'm sorry you are in this situation, but he sounds like an extremely unhappy horse and I would have no hesitation in suggesting that it would be very much in his best interests to put him to sleep.

 

[Ownedby4horses]

Im sorry but in these circumstances, I would have him PTS and let him find some peace. He sounds very troubled and the suspected stroke has obviously caused him some serious issues.

 

[cobgoblin]

Could I ask what made your vet think that he'd had a stroke? What the symptoms were at the time?
One thought that occurred to me is that he has been left with double vision or a visual deficit. Not sure how this could be ascertained in a horse though.

 

[super_cheval]

Hi guys,

These replies are hard to read but I know deep down that this is probably the only kind outcome for him. I'm in the phase where I think I am looking for confort in this very difficult decision.

I am scared one day that he will hurt us or himself and things could go horribly wrong... I have already become quite afraid of him over the years as his behavior has become so unpredictable. He is not nasty and will not attack but he is very difficult to touch, catch, he just does not want to be touched at all and actually does always have a fearful eye.

cobsinblankets - On one summer evening I found him trotting in a very distinct circle in his field, he was absolutely sweating, dripping, and looking into his eyes he was just totally absent, after talking to neighbors he had been trotting in that circle for hours round and round in a perfect circle. This perfect circle had been traced out on the floor. I think I took some photos at the time.
It was alien like behavior and totally unexplainable.

The only explanation the vet could come up with is that he had suffered a stroke and had some kind of neurological problem.

Which I think is the root cause to all his behavior..

 

[J&S]

I too would wonder about his eye sight. Pain makes horses very twitchy (to understate) and fearful of things that under better circumstances they would not react to. If, as you say, he has had some years already to try to adjust and has not improved I think I would think about PTS, for his sake.

My coloured mare became extremely upredictable to ride and handle when she was in pain but luckily, after several years of field rest, she is now quiet and settled and I can even ride her gently. I only add this as a comparison.

 

[mariew]

It's sad but I find by the time someone comes and asks the pts question on the forum they generally already know what the answer is, just needs someone to help say it's ok. Hugs. He doesn't sound like a happy horse and there are many worse options for a horse than being PTS.

 

[HorseyTee]

Honestly it sounds like you have given him time and tried and I'm sure the vet would have suggested if there was anything that could help.

Sadly he doesn't sound happy and it's making you unhappy and maybe it is best to both find peace at him gently going to sleep and enjoying the memories you share.
He could potentially have many years left but it wouldn't necessarily be quality of life for him.
It is always the hardest decision to make but if it's on your mind it is likely the right one.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Hi guys,

These replies are hard to read but I know deep down that this is probably the only kind outcome for him. I'm in the phase where I think I am looking for confort in this very difficult decision.

I am scared one day that he will hurt us or himself and things could go horribly wrong... I have already become quite afraid of him over the years as his behavior has become so unpredictable. He is not nasty and will not attack but he is very difficult to touch, catch, he just does not want to be touched at all and actually does always have a fearful eye.

cobsinblankets - On one summer evening I found him trotting in a very distinct circle in his field, he was absolutely sweating, dripping, and looking into his eyes he was just totally absent, after talking to neighbors he had been trotting in that circle for hours round and round in a perfect circle. This perfect circle had been traced out on the floor. I think I took some photos at the time.
It was alien like behavior and totally unexplainable.

The only explanation the vet could come up with is that he had suffered a stroke and had some kind of neurological problem.

Which I think is the root cause to all his behavior..

I don't understand why the vet didn't recommend pts at the time tbh. He sounds like a very unhappy horse. I would pts as soon as you can, which I know won't be easy at Christmas, so maybe make a plan for early in the New Year and put the poor lad out of his misery.

 

[laura_nash]

As well as his quality of life you do also need to consider yours and your OH's. Presumably if you keep him at home then if you are sick or injured you are relying on your OH to care for him, which sounds like it may not be very fair to them. If you have to hire in help (say you are both injured) I think you could be in trouble if he injured someone if you know how unpredictable he is. It doesn't sound like a good situation for anyone.

 

[Goldenstar]

I have a friend whose horse developed epilepsy she presented differently to yours but the end result was that caring for her was a dangerous nightmare they had her PTS .
If I where you this is what I would do .
You have done right to your horse now do right to yourself , there’s nothing more to do and nothing to beat yourself up about .

 

[canteron]

I can’t disagree with the above posters but before making that decision .....
I have an old girl who we retired, she had always been the apple of my eye and the ‘top’ horse.
After a couple of years I started to work quite intensively with the younger horses and she started to be quite standoffish- flinched if you touched her, would make horrid faces at you, difficult to catch etc etc.
It turned out it was pure jealousy - It took a surprisingly long while to regain her cooperation, but I established a routine which included doing stuff with her - and she is back to being a happy horse.
Clearly she didn’t have a stroke so it’s different, but who knows?
Good luck with any decision you make.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

When my mum had a mini stroke it took away her left side vision and her ability to reason. There is no way of knowing what sort of deficit this poor horse has and it sounds as though it is very confused and fearful. There is nothing to be done to help that you haven't already tried so I would PTS and give the poor horse peace.

 

[super_cheval]

I can’t disagree with the above posters but before making that decision .....
I have an old girl who we retired, she had always been the apple of my eye and the ‘top’ horse.
After a couple of years I started to work quite intensively with the younger horses and she started to be quite standoffish- flinched if you touched her, would make horrid faces at you, difficult to catch etc etc.
It turned out it was pure jealousy - It took a surprisingly long while to regain her cooperation, but I established a routine which included doing stuff with her - and she is back to being a happy horse.
Clearly she didn’t have a stroke so it’s different, but who knows?
Good luck with any decision you make.

That's really interesting because after my boy had (we will never know for 100%) his stroke, we got a new pony who has been getting all the attention.
Maybe there is some kind of link between this behavior and jealousy...
I'm not sure why jealousy would make him over spooky though ?

Will definitely look into this.

Thanks for posting.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I am so sorry you are having to struggle with this decision. Not much help to you but I had very similar sudden onset of very unpredictable and dangerous behaviour from my mare. about 2/3 years back. She was standing alone in the field, vacant look in her eye and would not appear to even know I was approaching, as I reached up to put her head collar on she exploded, rearing up and lashing out at me with her front legs - totally out of character and very, very scary. This happened on several occasions over a few days - swinging from quiet almost depressed one minute to a raging wild feral horse galloping dripping in sweat the next.

Anyway this is her story, my vet would not even agree to her being boxed to a vet hospital for investigation as he felt her sudden outbursts would be a danger to herself and the carrier, he cautioned me that PTS was the best answer as she was very unpredictable and dangerous for me to handle. I refused and said I wanted to know 'why' I was putting her to sleep. So many months later, every test under the sun, even experts across the world were consulted everything was ruled out, brain tumour, underlying pain, some sort of virus, poisoning ulcers, etc. etc. her bloods were never right and just fluctuated from ok'ish to not looking good at all. ~

Eventually we were left with thee most likely diagnosis as Lyme's disease and she was treated for that as soon as it became apparent it was the most likely thing. Unfortunately even the aggressive treatment we tried was too late from initial unpredictable outburst to make any real turn around in her physical wellbeing. She is still with me now, we rarely see the aggressive or unpredictable behaviour but it is ever present risk unfortunately. 99 per cent of the time she is calm and happy living in 24/7 turnout retirement with two donkeys for company. She is sometimes stiff and slightly unbalanced but it does not seem to depress her and she is on multitude of additives to keep her physically as well as possible. On the other hand on rare occasions she can gallop flat out across 13 acres in full attack mode looking 100 per cent sound but dangerous - not good.

I do not allow anyone other than one of my sons or myself into the field with her. Just 2 weeks back she had my son cornered and lashing out where he had to throw himself over a hawthorn bush just to get out of her flying hooves! Within minutes she was calm and happy and allowed him to approach and fuss her and gently speak to her, so sad. Unfortunately in the past few months I have become a little unsteady on my feet while waiting for unlikely hospital admission (it won't happen now with Covid damn it ) For this reason at some point very soon, I will have to PTS, its one thing risking my neck but quite another risking anyone else, in particular one of my own family!

Our of curiosity did they ever test for Lymes with your horse? I have only come across one other person in Ireland that I know, who had an almost identical thing happen with their horse. He was also eventually diagnosed, but again, too late for treatment to have much of a long term return to perfect health.

Whatever it is I am really sorry - I struggle everyday now wondering how can I even make the decision when most of the time she is my lovely old mare, gentle and kind who gave me so many happy years riding. I think you probably know in your heart you have done all you can and perhaps now is the right time.

 

[Abby-Lou]

I am so sorry for your situation. For all your safety and the welfare of the horse i would put to sleep. I know its one of the hardest things us horse owners have to face up too, big hugs with what ever you decide x