posted this in breeding - appreciate TB bloodline knowledge...

[Rudey]

I posted a thread about my yearlings breeding, he's a TB x coloured traditional cob. In the thread, I posted a link for his mum's bloodlines - would appreciate if anyone could enlighten me if there's anything good in there - I haven't a clue when it comes breeding/bloodlines!

I'd appreciate your thoughts on his breeding, bloodlines, conformation etc... it's a FULL picture story ha ha haaaa xx

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5031654/an/0/page/0#5031654

 

[DarkHorseB]

Looks like you will have a nice horse. What do you plan to do with him?

The only one I recognise is Stop The Music - I think this is an american TB. My first TB had this in his pedigree. Actually a descendant of a VERY famous american racehorse Man O'War - if you google it you will see just how famous!

 

[Mithras]

OK, well his dam has a lot of French breeding there and connections with quite a few of the Aga Khan's French based horses. Her sire, Linamix, was a grey miler who won the French 2000 Guineas (Poule D'Essai Des Poulains) and I think also the Prix Jacques Le Marios. He was a very successful sire. You will see he goes right back to Northern Dancer, the most successful TB sire this century and sire of the last Triple Crown winner Nijinsky as well as most successful middle distance racehorses in the last 25 years! Linamix's maternal line has more stamina than the male line, going back to Tanerko and Alycidon (St Leger winner) but also to Abernant, a sprinter, who was also a grey.

His grandam, Walk On Turf, is by the Aga Khan's French Derby winner Bikala. This is again a line of greys! They eventually go back to the sprinter Grey Soverign.

The great grandam, Walk On Air, is American bred, being by Cure The Blues, himself by Stop The Music, good but not great US racehorses (Grade 1 winners). Cure The Blues was a Grade 1 winning 2 y o.

I've got a feeling from a vague memory that the great great grandam Warsaw was pretty useful and possibly a good broodmare, but cannot remember any details. She is again French bred and I think Cure The Blues might have stood in France at some point so I suspect your boy's dam is totally French bred.

In terms of TB breeding, many horses are of good sires or sire lines and trace back to Northern Dancer, so none of this is unusual. What you can say is that his dam is the produce of almost exclusively French breeding and there are a lot of greys on both sides of the pedigree. There are more influences for speed than stamina.

 

[Mithras]

Yes, thought so. Your boy's great grandam is a half brother to a Group 1 winner - Walensee, who won the Prix Vermeille G1, in France. In other words they share the same great great grandam, Warsaw by Bon Mot. Warsaw herself was a black type winner, winning the Prix De La Porte De Passy L at Lonchamp. Walensee went on to become the dam of the recent top stayer Westerner, who won the Ascot Gold Cup G1 at Royal Ascot, the Prix Royal-Oak G1 and the Prix Du Cadran G1, as well as the group winner War Game, who won the Prix Maurice De Nieuil G2.

The grandam, Walk On Turf, was a half sister to group winner Walk On Mix winner of the Prix Noailles G2, as well as Walkamania, winner of the Prix Fille De L'aire G3. (both by Linamix, probably why Wakeful Night was sent to him).

This is a good pedgree with recent black type and group 1 winners on the maternal side, which is where you look - most TB sires sire hundreds of foals so for good breeding you look at the maternal side. Black type means stakes winners or above which have the right to appear in black type in pedigree summaries. Listed winners are good, group winners are even better and group 1 winners best of all. Most racehorses never even win a stakes race, never mind a listed race! Therefore I am surprised that Wakeful Night was sent to a non-TB and I wonder why!

 

[Rudey]

Wow thanks for that!

I have no idea on these things lol!

I am really pleased that I have got a TB x cob, he is proving to look abit thoroughbredy but with some decent bone. Some showing judges said to me he had nice bone, decent knees and fetlocks, and when I walked/trotted - he was lovely and straight.

For now I am doing some inhand showing - believe in getting him out and about - and also, if I'm paying out for him, he needs to earn his keep lol!

In all honesty, I am not the type that wants him to be a BE eventer or a BSJA horse... I just want a basic all rounder to go around the local circuit - sj, xc and ode's... perhaps do the odd BSJA/BE event on ticket when he's older/experienced.

Having said that, I took up inhand showing believing it to be a good experience for him, didn't appreciate I would enjoy it! I assumed that it was dull and boring!!

So the plan for the next few years is to do some inhand showing, and after he's broken, thought about doing abit of ridden showing and a low level of dressage. Hopefully give him time to mature and get established, then begin his jumping career perhaps when he's 5 or 6. We will see, these things don't always work out how you think eh!!

 

[Mithras]

Theres probably a story there somewhere. He is decently bred on the dam's side and I can't understand why a mare like Wakeful Night which has previously produced foals by sires whose stud fee would be at least several thousand pounds (Mujahid, Loup Solitaire and Zilzal) would be sent to a non TB!

 

[Rudey]

My goodness!!!

You know your stuff! Thank you so so so much for that informative post! I am so intrigued in his breeding, and it's nice to know! I don't know anything about my bay, not even definite breed, just bought him as a hunter type! I think that's why I am so keen on finding out about Rox's predecessors!!

Thank you so much!

I bought him from a local breeder half an hour away from where I live. The majority of her broodmares are TB's and has since sold Rox's dad, but has another coloured stallion now. I don't know how she come to buying Wakeful Night, but they have her for sale for £950 and is covered by their new stallion! http://foxislestud.co.uk/?page_id=171

My word, I keep reading your posts over and over again! There's so much into it! Thank you so much for that, you're a star! xx

 

[seabiscuit]

Wakeful night sold for 800 guineas at the Tattersalls sales in 2006, having produced a few foals which were not any good on the racetrack/some did not even race- however her dam line is excellent , full of black type!

This is the sales catalogue sheet for one of her offspring-
http://www.tattersalls.com/cat/autumnhit/2003/236.pdf

 

[Rudey]

Thanks for that!

You guys are great at this sort of stuff lol! I am far from useful

I have googled her name loads of different ways and never found anything other then the link I posted on her bloodlines!

She wasn't sold for much at all, clearly due to off spring not meeting standards, I wonder if the breeders I got her off, bought her from Tattersalls hmmmm...

One of my mates bought an ex-racer for £300, and his breeding was really impressive (I wouldn't have a clue what), just goes to show, bloodlines don't amount to much unless they perform or produce performers!

Now I need to find somebody who knows Toyboy, or perhaps who owns him now! I'm really intrigued to see how he has matured! Only saw photos of him as a 2 year old (same age he covered Dawn).

When I went to the breeders place they had a new coloured stallion with a lovely nature, no more ToyBoy, they'd sold him on already

Originally went for Rebel Rox's half brother, wasn't overly keen, looked at several other youngsters and fell for Rox.

He was in a herd of several broodmares, some had already had foals sold, but he had two other siblings in with him. His mum had a fantastic temperment. She's for sale and scanned in foal now to their new stallion!

xx