Pot hunters and showjumping

windand rain

windand rain

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I have just got back from showjumping today and was very surprised at the pothunting going on. I suppose I have been a bit old fashioned I have a young horse who we took to her 4th ever jumping competition as she had jumped double clear at the last one at 65 cm I upped her to the next class. I was amazed when huge great showjumpers with adults aboard went roaring round the 65cm class the top two placings were 15 seconds faster than the obviously less experienced horses. Now a young horse can go out and win but surely it must be boring taking the prizes off the kids or baby ponies with teenage showjumpers that are blatently a class above or even three classes above

Oh I was delighted with my baby she was by far the smallest/youngest in the class (70cm) and she jumped a very steady double clear so looks like 80cm next time
we dont jump at home as we have no jumps and no school so it was literally her fourth day of jumping she did one clear round class at 65 where she had a pole then did the one class
 
I think pothunting ruins local shows to a certain extent, but you can't always be sure someone is pothunting (though I know that there are often the same people all the time so you can tell who they are). My pony was 14hh and was super jumping, I progressed very slowly out competing as I didn't have any transport for years so was a bit nervous. I got her jumping 90/95 classes and she was fab, had a break and took her to do an 85cm and she fell and had a rotational -just one of those things. I never really jumped bigger than 80cm out competing as I'd lost my confidence - some people may have thought I was pothunting as they knew I'd done bigger before, but I just didn't feel comfortable, and didn't want to jump bigger.

I guess the only way you can get away from this is by going affiliated. I've never affiliated myself so don't know for sure, but I would have thought with the rules on points and such that they have, its less likely to occur
 
I think its very hard to tell if someones pothunting in that scenario. Maybe either horse or adult is inexperienced, had a confidence issue, injury, is there first time out together etc. Or its possible some were competing hc even. And really, its no different to last summer, my daughter (age 7) on her 5yr old 11.1 jumping in classes with older kids & teens in, on bigger ponies. It wouldn't have crossed my mind to think the older kids & teens should be entering bigger classes to give her a chance, or her young pony.
 
We have the same thing in our area with dressage. There are 2 people in particular who get over 70 regularly in both Prelim and novice and have been doing so for well over a year. They regularly take 1st and 2nd in all the regular champs and it's so disheartening when you see their names on the time sheet. You know you just don't stand a chance.
 
There was an incident last year when there was a load of kids in the 1ft6 horse and hound class and a grown lady who was jumping the opens in the next ring went into he tiny class on both her horses was boasting her dogs were agility dogs so should win and she did 1st and 2nd, even the orgainizers werent happy but there was no restrictions on the class, i think they said they would implement them next year!!! Just so sad that a fun kids class was ruined by a lady who was most differently pot hunting, i just dont understand what acheivment she got from it TBH.
 
I think it's hard to really tell if someone is pot hunting.

A couple of years ago it probably looked like I was. Me & the horse had previously competed BE novice yet we were out doing 60cms.



Truth was I was retching with fear beforehand & it was a major deal for me as I completely lost my nerve jumping & was trying to get my confidence back
 
I occasionally go with a friend showjumping. She does the 65cm and 75cm classes. But it's separated into horse and pony placings so the kids are generally on the ponies and still get their win/placing. My friend is an adult but her pony is only 14hh. So she enters as a horse so that she competes fairly against other adults - maybe that's a solution for other unaffiliated comps.
 
Sorry wasnt complaining about them doing it and I appreciate that nervous novices want to jump in the small classes but these were not in my horse's class they were in a lower one. They jumped the jump off course in half the time of the inexperienced, nervous and novice horses so that was what surprised me. If they can gallop full tilt round the course jumping off turns a few strides from the jump they are neither nervous or novice.
I was very happy with my horse I was happy she jumped a double clear but having done so she will go up a class next time She didnt win she wasnt fast or experienced enough to make the tight turns but she had the scope and I dont want her pushing into flat fast jumping. She is barely a horse at 148cm anyway but she has to jump against horses as her rider is nervous (getting braver) adult
 
You don't expect to win on a young horse anyway. You should just be out to get experience and get steady double clears and concentrate on the style and way of going. Even if you were jumping affiliated and in British Novice against all the other novices, hardly anyone tries to win or get placed so they can get experience doing steady double clears or not win too much prize money, unless they are finding it ridiculously easy and just want a few wins to get out of the class.

Those more experienced horses might have been warming up for a later class, might have lost their confidence or might be older horses which are only capable of jumping lower heights but still have their speed and ability to go fast in jump offs.

You can't control what anyone else is doing, so its absolutely counter-productive to even think about it. Total waste of time.
 
Let them get on with it...you will soon be competing above & beyond them anyway, I don't have any school etc either, it feels like more of an achievement to me getting placed BS than it does winning an unaff class now, would rather try & keep moving on even though it's not easy & more of a challenge. Having said that everyone has their reasons so who are we to judge, do what keeps you happy & feeling that you have achieved something :)
 
Mithras said:
You don't expect to win on a young horse anyway. You should just be out to get experience and get steady double clears and concentrate on the style and way of going. Even if you were jumping affiliated and in British Novice against all the other novices, hardly anyone tries to win or get placed so they can get experience doing steady double clears or not win too much prize money, unless they are finding it ridiculously easy and just want a few wins to get out of the class.

Those more experienced horses might have been warming up for a later class, might have lost their confidence or might be older horses which are only capable of jumping lower heights but still have their speed and ability to go fast in jump offs.

You can't control what anyone else is doing, so its absolutely counter-productive to even think about it. Total waste of time.
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You are of course quite right I dont expect to win with my baby I dont expect her to win because I wont have her pushed at such a low height making her flat and likely to knock em all down. I dont ever expect her to win at anything these competitions dressage jumping and finally when we get there cross country are all for fun and for her to grow and mature into a happy and stable but easy to ride animal I use them to gauge her progress improving dressage scores and gaining height are all to the good. I like to go under different judges and in different circumstances too and her rider is having a huge amount of fun and is of the same mind as me. I repeatedly said these horses were not in her class but I was surprised at full grown men wanting to take a rosette of a young teen and being very obviously capable of very much more and to say they were practising for a later class they took the prize and went home
Personally I cant for the life of me see the pleasure in that
 
I think it is very hard to distinguish between pothunters and those trying hard. We went to a local show before xmas and a lady on a big TB was competing in the 2 ft class. She won it and my daughter came 2nd (11 yrs). I wasnt bothered as such is life but then she went in the next class which my daughter won. Then she went in the next class which my son won, then the next one which my son won. She then waited to see if they went in the next class before she entered. My kids were on 13hh ponies by the way . If she had been nervous or a novice she wouldnt have waited to do the last 3 ft class. She waved as we left which just made me feel a little sad. My kids have withdrawn from classes that have been for younger children if they have felt it would be unfair
 
Trouble is, for all you know, the height they were jumping and winning at was their maximum preferred jumping height.

Lots of people are capable of jumping higher but don't have the confidence.

I think that at the lower levels in particular, shows should run an Open and Unrestricted section so that people who prefer whizzing round over the smaller stuff can do so forever without putting genuine nervous/novice/youngsters' noses' out of joint.
 
Okay I give in I guess grown men chasing about over tiny fences beating 13 year olds moving up from ponies to horses is a great idea. I have no vested interest and yes they pay their money and have their go I just think instead of pride and achievement I would be ashamed of myself. Guess it is just another mind set:(
 
SpruceRI said:
I think that at the lower levels in particular, shows should run an Open and Unrestricted section so that people who prefer whizzing round over the smaller stuff can do so forever without putting genuine nervous/novice/youngsters' noses' out of joint.
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I agree, a novice and a unrestricted section so you wouldn't see the same people sneaking into the novice time and time again.
 
SpruceRI said:
I think that at the lower levels in particular, shows should run an Open and Unrestricted section so that people who prefer whizzing round over the smaller stuff can do so forever without putting genuine nervous/novice/youngsters' noses' out of joint.
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I don't think they get enough entries for this sort of thing anymore, people don't seem to compete as often as they used to and restricting classes just lessens the money taken and splitting a class would mean another set of rosettes so would increase the cost.

As a rusty and unconfident rider over fences these days, I enter the smallest class I can get away with and have won them. A someone who only competes once or twice a year, I would hardly call myself a pothunter! But I do know people who would go out every week, jump a 2'3" and win it, week in, week out. I would call them pothunters.
 
Not jumping, but at a dressage comp last year I did the prelim, and in my class was a lady who did the prelim, novice and elementary all on the same horse. Said lady had 69% in the elementary which won it... Why is somebody capable of that score in an elementary doing prelim!? Novice I can understand, but prelim, wasn't even an HC entry :(
 
What i think OP meant is the people that do the 85cm class ''to warm up'' and then wait for the 1m+ classes and go to win those too. In which case i think it is totally unfair of them to enter the 85cm if clearly they know they will win it because they are actualy there to compete in 1m+ classes. I hate that! I understand novice rider or horse, who may look experienced etc, but those riders don't tend to then enter the 1.10m class after doing the 75cm. So i agree OP, i don't understand those people at all, how can taking prizes away from kids/adults who worked hard to get to that stage be enjoyable?
 
windand rain said:
Okay I give in I guess grown men chasing about over tiny fences beating 13 year olds moving up from ponies to horses is a great idea. I have no vested interest and yes they pay their money and have their go I just think instead of pride and achievement I would be ashamed of myself. Guess it is just another mind set:(
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There are plenty of 13 year olds in the bigger classes too so I wouldn't assume just cos someone is an adult they are cabale of jumping big fences, things hurt a lot more when you get it wrong as you get older.

Not to mention some of the ponies are bloody nippy in a jump off compared to a big horse.
 
I find the kids always win small classes where it comes down to speed anyway tbh.
Last time I went SJ, we were 4th, I stood on my 16.1 green horse surrounded by small children on ponies. It was a bit embarassing.
 
Perhaps the show organisers ought to offer HC entries at a slightly reduced price. We have gone HC sometimes when we feel it is appropriate.
 
At a lot of our local shows (the type that have classes from 50cm up to 90cm), there will often be restrictions so that, for example, anyone entering the 50cm or 60cm classes can't also do the 80 or 90cm classes. I think that's quite fair. Adults on horses do enter the smaller classes, but don't usually beat the ponies. One of our local shows used to have a 50cm class called the 'vertigo stakes' with entries restricted to adults who were not entered for any other class.
 
If it's an open class it's open .
There are so many reasons that someone might be doing this it's difficult to list them only one of them is pot hunting some of the others might be.
Might be a adult learner on a school master.
Might be an older much loved semi retiree out for an outing .
Might be a experianced rider who has had a long break for some reason getting back into the saddle .
Might be a combination happy and established at that level that do not want to progress for some reason.
But the clue is in the name if it's an open class it's going to be full of all sorts of rider taking part for all sorts of reasons.
 
I think you would need to go week in week out round all the local unaffiliated sj to establish whether an individual is a pot hunter or not. And I'm another that would put my money on a pony over a horse for times at unaffiliated. It's also very easy for a good schoolmaster to make a novice or nervous rider look a lot better than they are.
 
Yes I suppose it is just a different perception I agree ponies are faster these were horse classes so the kids I would assume are going from ponies to horses at this time of year
I take great pride in my little girls achievements what ever they are if they are a progression I dont see where the pride and therefore the fulfillment comes from racing a huge horse or schoolmaster round tiny jumps every week week in week out and then boasting about winning. Like I said a very different mindset maybe I am not competitive enough
 
windand rain said:
Yes I suppose it is just a different perception I agree ponies are faster these were horse classes so the kids I would assume are going from ponies to horses at this time of year
I take great pride in my little girls achievements what ever they are if they are a progression I dont see where the pride and therefore the fulfillment comes from racing a huge horse or schoolmaster round tiny jumps every week week in week out and then boasting about winning. Like I said a very different mindset maybe I am not competitive enough
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People do things for different reasons and that's exactly what you find in open classes at unaffiliated shows, that's why they are so valuable.
I do think it's fine for people to happy at a level they are comfy at and stay there and people ought not feel pushed for whatever reason to do bigger stuff than they want to.
 
I thiml the fault can lie with the organisers though. If there's no restrictions then anyone can enter and, as someone's said, although you may think a person competing is pot-huntng they may be jumping at the height they feel safe. I know I have been to RC shows when there are some huge great horses (no youngsters, definitely know what they are doing) being jumped round 65cm classes and you do wonder why but then, if the rider is not confident then why shouldn't they enjoy jumping at a height they feel safe at?

I got accused of pot hunting once as I had a fab coloured pony who was a great speed pony and we won a fair few classed at one particular place (again,no restrictions in the main). I actuallt go approached by the organisers as someone had complained that my pony was actually affiliated (JA they reckoned) and therefore I was breaking the rules. The thing was, my pony (a coloured) did look very similar to a registered JA that was on the circuit at that time - I actually knew the rider of that one - so I guess it was an easy mistake to make. However, the reason I stuck to smaller classes was as much as my pony loved jumping, he had spavin so couldn't jump higher than about 2'9".
 
I used to have a very naughty 16.3 TB. He was a big NH type - just the sort of horse you would see going around Badminton/Burghley. (There's no way he ever would have done!)

He was a real nightmare to jump, and in fact at almost every competition we went to. Took him to a local clear round early one Saturday morning, and got some really funny stares when what looked like a top-end eventer came trotting in the ring to do some poles on the floor.

So lesson... dont judge a book by its cover!
 
RiderLizzie said:
Not jumping, but at a dressage comp last year I did the prelim, and in my class was a lady who did the prelim, novice and elementary all on the same horse. Said lady had 69% in the elementary which won it... Why is somebody capable of that score in an elementary doing prelim!? Novice I can understand, but prelim, wasn't even an HC entry :(
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this annoys me too! being nervous when I compete it annoys me when people use the lower level classes as their warm up, come on give us a chance!! :rolleyes:
 
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