Potential bad news, advice needed...

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Elvis

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Warning this is a long one.

There's a few things I've been mulling over that I could do with some direction on. Firstly I had the physio out today for Elvis as he hasn't seemed right since being brought back into work after his pastern injury. Although in all honesty he's always been a bit off, not consistently, but enough for me to always have that niggling feeling at the back of my mind. The physio has said he isn't right behind, he just doesn't move as he should. Also one side of his pelvis isn't as it should be, she thinks potentially due to the way he laid in the womb, or from a previous accident or fracture. She treated his back which was very tight behind the saddle and into the pelvic region. She wants to see if his odd movement behind is due to a lack of muscle and the soreness so has asked for me to continue with his rehab programme which is currently at 30 mins walk work, introducing trot work shortly. She has made it clear that he has to work correctly into a contact using his back end and to spend time doing long and low work. Here lies the first problem, I find him hard work to correctly, his head carriage isn't consistent, he flits between being behind the vertical to above it, to fighting me completely. He is ridden in a grackle and has a loose ring lozenge NS bit. My instructor has watched me on him and says to carry on doing what I'm doing as he is generally fussy anyway. So I was considering a micklem bridle as I've heard that they help to stabilise the bit and don't create pressure points, what do people think about this?
My second problem lies with the saddle, it's lovely and was fitted to him when he had more muscle, so now it does not lie flat at the back, I've been advised to get a half pad, I'm guessing since the back comes up it must be coming down at the front, so do I need a front riser pad? If so what do people recommend?
I figure sorting the above two problems will help over the next 3 weeks with making sure Elvis is comfortable and increasing my chances of working him properly. He also has daily exercises to try and strengthen his back.
However if the physio sees no improvement after 3 weeks of the above programme, it's not good news, X-rays and scans will need to be done of his back, pelvis and hind legs. She said it could be problems in his pelvis, bilateral lameness, pretty much anything in his back end. I've only had him for 11 months and he has already suffered with an unknown liver ailment which required a biopsy and months of anti-biotics and steroids, he then severed his pastern (artery and nerves included) which required a cast and weeks of box rest and now this, I keep telling myself "that's horses" and I know that others have it much worse. I've tried my best by him, he has the physio every 6 weeks, saddler every 3-4 months, dentist every 6 months, he is blood tested every 3 months because of the liver issue and I call the vet if ever he doesn't seem 100%. I just feel a bit lost now, I just don't know what else I can do.

Apologies for a long and probably illiterate post.

Terry's chocolate orange for anyone who made it this far.
 
Gut feeling: ditch the saddle for the moment and work him bareback which will probably make him want to drop his head right down so his nose is almost bouncing off the floor - let him do that although it will feel horrible. then get him to work his head up and flexed.

If he's really got a high wither/spine then consider a bareback pad but try him without if you can.
 
jemima*askin said:
Gut feeling: ditch the saddle for the moment and work him bareback which will probably make him want to drop his head right down so his nose is almost bouncing off the floor - let him do that although it will feel horrible. then get him to work his head up and flexed.

If he's really got a high wither/spine then consider a bareback pad but try him without if you can.
Click to expand...

This is something I could try, but maybe after a few days, he can be quite sharp and spooky and I don't have the strongest core so if he tried anything on I'd be out the side door quite quickly, maybe once he's a bit calmer I could try it, or I could get my little sister to lead me round the first few times.
 
I'm afraid I've nothing constructive to add, except that don't write him off just yet. Keep plugging away at the exercise routine and don't beat yourself up about your run of bad luck. You sound like an excellent owner and he is in capable hands.
Have you thought about long lining him? Could you try a Micklem bridle first? They are very good but not a miracle cure for contact issues. Hope he comes good for you in the end. Good luck! x
 
With regard to the head carriage - I had to rehab a horse with a back injury and the vet suggested riding him in a De-Gogue. You ride with one set of reins on the de-gogue (ie through the bit to the rein rather than through the bit to the chest) and the other on the horses bit and it just stops them throwing their head above the vertical.

Would that be worth a try?

ETA you just have to be quite conscious to make sure they are forward not just being pulled in :)
 
I don't have any advice but it would be normal to feel a bit downhearted in your situation. It's not your fault (hugs).
 
Nannubu: thank you, I'm going to put my all into his exercise routine, hopefully we'll see an improvement. I'd love to try a micklem first as they are very expensive but not sure where would do this. And long lining has been suggested and I'll try that once he's a bit calmer as he's awful on the lunge (he thinks it's party time) and I'd rather be out of the way of his hind feet! But I reckon after a few days exercise he should be settled enough to at least try.

Cheiro1: Thank you, he's quite backward anyway and does occasionally dip behind the vertical so it might be tricky to get right, especially as I'm not the most experienced person, but if he continues to throw a strop and come above the vertical it's certainly something to try :)

Texas: Thank you, I try not to let it affect me but I just want to enjoy him and for him to be comfortable. Hopefully that'll be achieved one day!
 
You have had a time of it!

I think the physio is being a bit (well a lot) unrealistic asking you to work him into a contact when his back end is wrong. He can't work correctly at this stage and tbh it takes months to develop the muscles to do so. I would talk to her about working him from the ground, so that he doesn't have your weight to deal with as well. This would also obviate the necessity for a saddle. The saddler would be the best person to ask about the saddle fit, really. I think if he were mine, I'd be asking for x-rays etc now, rather than messing about for another 3 weeks, which I really can't see being enough to make a difference to him, whatever is wrong. I do hope you get to the bottom of it all soon.
 
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Pearlsasinger: I hope I get to the bottom of it too :)
And X-rays are the next step after the 3 weeks, I'll be incorporating a lot of ground work too. He is capable of working correctly, others have been very successful and he does move better when he is working properly. I think the physio has suggested 3 weeks of proper work so that if nothing improves or if anything is worse we know for sure that it was not related to weakness and general soreness in his back and is definitely a case of pelvis or hind leg issues. We are hoping for some improvement even if it's small, he's young and big so always looks worse when he's not in consistent work. Maybe I'm just clutching onto straws though. Thank you for your thoughts though :)
 
I would stay off him and do loads of long lining. In straight lines or big circles and over poles and raised poles. If you have him on two lines you will have more control over what he is doing with his back legs so he should be able to get to you with them. If you aren't confident long lining him, can you have a few lessons from someone to show you how to get him working properly?
Also could you walk him out in hand, really marching and get him up some hills?
 
I have rehabbed several horses using the "EquiAmi" using both the lunging aid and the ridden one. http://equiami.com/

I would get him to use his back without a rider on board first, then once he is happy doing that I would then start to ride him. Do some carrot stretching that will help too.

I would also use some poles which will make him lift and work his quarters.
 
Postive thoughts go out to you! One of my horses has back and hip/pelvis problems (big boned tb ex racehorse with really high lng withers) The vet initially found hot spots on his back when I got him home and tissue damage from what she suspected was years of baddly fitting gp saddles being thrown on him and friction from racing saddles. We rested him and then got a saddler and a chiropracter out. He was short behind especially on left rein, she found he would routinely knock his hips out of alignment (or something like that!) and was weak on one side, she also found several vertebrae out and his atlas in his poll which would have been causing really bad headaches and pain. He had treatment every 4/5 weeks i ound if I left it any longer he would be really uneaven (not lame tho) behind due to his hips which would effect everything else. Have you had a chiro out? Also we had a prolite pad under his saddle which was really helpful.Apologies if you mentioned it im just in work and had a quick read!
 
If the saddle no longer fits because he's lost muscle it will be too wide which is why its tipping up at the back. A front riser (I like prolite adjustable ones) will both narrow it and balance it.

You don't need a micklem bridle to stabilize the bit. An eggbutt snaffle will be a lot more stable than a loose ring snaffle. A fixed cheek snaffle, especially if used with the loops to connect the top cheek to the cheekpiece of the bridle, will be more stable still. You can use the grackle with these bits. A running martingale will help to keep the action of the bit consistent regardless of where he places his head or if your hands are a bit wobbly.

Working correctly long and low isn't unrealistic in itself, but keeping it up for half hour is. If he has to work correctly 100% of the time I would start with 2mins and build it up very very slowly, maybe taking a month or two of daily work to get upto half hour.
 
You only need to work him in to the contact - not on the bit.

Get your saddle re-assessed.

And book an appointment with the vet.
 
I agree with some of the posters above. If it was me, I'd be getting the vet checks done first. If he's in pain or discomfort, then I doubt he's going to work correctly anyway. Rule those out or treat, then do the schooling/rehab. Particularly if you've got a saddle that doesn't fit, as schooling isn't likely to help unless you are doing non riddeen work.

Groundwork, lunging (pessoa/equiami), pole work, long lining would probably help more than riding if you're not 100% about whether you can school him properly in your current saddle. I can understand why you'd want to try this for a couple of weeks on physio advice, but I tend to be more vet trigger happy.

Really sorry though, I know it's a horrible and emotional thing to go through, hope it all works out soon and with a positive outcome for you both
 
Thank you everyone, have taken everything on board, the vet comes out regularly and knows elvis well. She has previously looked at his hind leg action as have other vets and so far all have said it looks to be coming from his back and that he's generally very weak and that it would be worth trying to strengthen him before going down the route of scans/X-rays. I will be incorporating as much ground work as possible and have carrot stretches and back stretches that he will be doing every day. I've spoken to the saddler and he has said that where he has dropped muscle the saddle is now too wide so a pad that brings the front up will lower the back and should be suitable until he re-muscles. I think a prolite seems like the best option? Thanks for the advice about bits I'll discuss this with my instructor and see what we can try.

Thank you everyone for replying, sorry if it seems like I'm brushing aside any advice-I am taking it all on board. And will be incorporating more ground work than ridden. I know what signs to look out for if he's uncomfortable, and certainly won't be ignoring them. Thank you. :)
 
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