Potential purchase part II

My guess is they are terrified of him and can't ride him hence wanting rid. Will be interesting to see if they offer a trial! To be fair though the budget is not large for that type of horse so a compromise might be needed, but queries over backs I wouldn't bother as it woudl worry me too much!
 
SusieT said:
My guess is they are terrified of him and can't ride him hence wanting rid. Will be interesting to see if they offer a trial! To be fair though the budget is not large for that type of horse so a compromise might be needed, but queries over backs I wouldn't bother as it woudl worry me too much!
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I know, I have plenty of lee-way on budget but for the 'right' horse, sadly I cannot justify spending 10's of thousands on a horse with my level of riding! As much as I would love to go around Badders, I doubt I'll get there!

tiggs said:
There are three Limmerick horses at Badminton this year.
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I know :( makes me sick to think of the poor geldings 'potential'... I have had a few 'what if it is only due to poor condition' conversations with myself, but to be fair if it gets flagged up on a vetting then I'l never even get it covered on insurance :( sad times!
 
If you still like the horse, he's cheap and your still thinking "what if" then why not just do a work up?? By your own description he is completely different to the normal type of horse the dealer ha, therefore they are probably not accustomed to dealing with a more blood, sharp animal. I have seen it before with a few dealers where they punch above their weight and make a mess of it. If it were me I'd skip a trial (tbh I would never give one so wouldn't expect one) and spend the extra money doing a work up. If he is big, weak and by Limmerick then that is probably all it is...a decent vet should be able to tell you very quickly the difference between baby weakness & KS
 
amage said:
If you still like the horse, he's cheap and your still thinking "what if" then why not just do a work up?? By your own description he is completely different to the normal type of horse the dealer ha, therefore they are probably not accustomed to dealing with a more blood, sharp animal. I have seen it before with a few dealers where they punch above their weight and make a mess of it. If it were me I'd skip a trial (tbh I would never give one so wouldn't expect one) and spend the extra money doing a work up. If he is big, weak and by Limmerick then that is probably all it is...a decent vet should be able to tell you very quickly the difference between baby weakness & KS
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Except that it could be all sorts of things, not just KS. It could also be sub-clinical at this stage and hard to find.A full work up could easily cost +£1k and anything that DID turn up would then be exempt from insurance.

I'm actually very sanguine about 'problems' and have fixed/managed all sorts of issues over the years, but I do think buying a problem takes a certain level of experience and comfort with risk. The fact that the OP is already questioning would suggest it's perfectly valid to walk away.

I do repeat my point though, that no horse is perfect. I'm rather more comfortable with problems I can identify though, even if just by a good guess on feel.
 
I know it could be all sort of things but used KS as that apears to be the op's concern. I have never had a work up come within an ass's roar of 1k+....treatment yes but workup (with a top top vet) nowhere near it. Hence why I stated that is what I would do if it were me....
 
Look very carefully at this horse - at how he reacts to his herd mates, how he reacts to you and other people. Look at his body language. What is he like personality-wise? Is he kind? Eager to please? Opinionated? Bossy? Bolshy? Does he like to be in charge or is he happy to follow instructions? Is he spooky? Or bold? None of that will change. Training can be improved upon, and isn't really an issue. His temperament, you will be stuck with.

If there is a big mismatch between temp on the ground and temp under saddle, I'd suspect pain. If it's generally the same, that's how he is.
 
mystiandsunny said:
Look very carefully at this horse- at how he reacts to his herd mates, how he reacts to you and other people. Look at his body language. What is he like personality-wise? Is he kind? Eager to please? Opinionated? Bossy? Bolshy? Does he like to be in charge or is he happy to follow instructions? Is he spooky? Or bold? None of that will change. Training can be improved upon, and isn't really an issue. His temperament, you will be stuck with.

If there is a big mismatch between temp on the ground and temp under saddle, I'd suspect pain. If it's generally the same, that's how he is.
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Very true.

Re a work up, a vet assessment and a few x-rays won't rack up a big bill, very true. But that is also not a particularly complete picture, by modern standards, and will only say horse doesn't have "x" it won't address any potential causes. If the OP really wants a complete picture there would have to be a more thorough investigation. Frankly, I think if you're looking to have the back x-rayed you should move on anyway because it means you suspect the horse's behaviour is pain related. I really don't think most people can narrow down a potential cause that specifically. Behavioural symptoms are not that cut and dried.

Anyway I think the point is the OP has doubts going in, which can only really be proven or disproved with time. If the OP is not comfortable taking that risk then it's probably not the right horse
 
Fides said:
OP just out of interest how low are they willing to go on price?
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He's now less than 1k.... am considering taking a HUGE punt. He is lovely in every way, accept when the saddle/rider first gets on without about 20+ mins of lunging, if he's 'warm' enough he doesn't do it. And he resents being mounted, nothing nasty, just will turn his quarters away from the block.

TarrSteps said:
Very true.

Re a work up, a vet assessment and a few x-rays won't rack up a big bill, very true. But that is also not a particularly complete picture, by modern standards, and will only say horse doesn't have "x" it won't address any potential causes. If the OP really wants a complete picture there would have to be a more thorough investigation. Frankly, I think if you're looking to have the back x-rayed you should move on anyway because it means you suspect the horse's behaviour is pain related. I really don't think most people can narrow down a potential cause that specifically. Behavioural symptoms are not that cut and dried.

Anyway I think the point is the OP has doubts going in, which can only really be proven or disproved with time. If the OP is not comfortable taking that risk then it's probably not the right horse
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Here is THE reason I'm having reservations: I'm worried about buying a horse, that has a fairly high chance of having a physical problem, cf one showing no 'pain' signs, and forking out £1000's to not get it fixed and capable of the level of work I want to do. And then being left with a bloody-type horse that needs a 'hacking' home. As much as I would love to be able to accommodate more than 2/3 horses, I really can't and the 2 I have owe me absolutely nothing and will see out the end of their days with me. We don't have enough land to keep anymore in the lifestyle I like to (out for at least 8-12hrs a day).

I am in a huge dilemma.... he's everything I want, but with potentially major issues!
 
anna22 said:
He's now less than 1k.... am considering taking a HUGE punt. He is lovely in every way, accept when the saddle/rider first gets on without about 20+ mins of lunging, if he's 'warm' enough he doesn't do it. And he resents being mounted, nothing nasty, just will turn his quarters away from the block.



Here is THE reason I'm having reservations: I'm worried about buying a horse, that has a fairly high chance of having a physical problem, cf one showing no 'pain' signs, and forking out £1000's to not get it fixed and capable of the level of work I want to do. And then being left with a bloody-type horse that needs a 'hacking' home. As much as I would love to be able to accommodate more than 2/3 horses, I really can't and the 2 I have owe me absolutely nothing and will see out the end of their days with me. We don't have enough land to keep anymore in the lifestyle I like to (out for at least 8-12hrs a day).

I am in a huge dilemma.... he's everything I want, but with potentially major issues!
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If they have dropped the price dramatically I would be very concerned that they know he has a physical issue and are wanting rid of him. That is way too cheap for a horse of his breeding even if he is slightly quirky.. to me that would scream alarm bells. :(
 
My guess is this horse is in pain.
If you go ahead get him well vetted but I would say a horse you can't get on without 20min of lunging has a back problem-may be just soft tissue but once a back problem rarely is there never a back problem again..
 
I really don't see the point of taking a punt on this horse when you have a significantly bigger budget than the price he is offered for and you have lost your confidence in the past as result of a bad fall - I can't see that a bronker with likely pain issues is really the horse for you! If you were an absolutely fearless rider and could only afford to pay peanuts then I could perhaps understand the temptation a little bit more.
 
TGM said:
I really don't see the point of taking a punt on this horse when you have a significantly bigger budget than the price he is offered for and you have lost your confidence in the past as result of a bad fall - I can't see that a bronker with likely pain issues is really the horse for you! If you were an absolutely fearless rider and could only afford to pay peanuts then I could perhaps understand the temptation a little bit more.
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I know... I guess some poor sod will pay a silly sum for him and end up in a real mess. I am going to wait unless she changes her mind on the 3 month lwvtb and then I can see if with some proper work he gets better, but as said before. Once a back problem, always a potential back problem!
 
So if he needs 20 mins lungeing to be able to get on him, what happens when you want to take him places? There are often no facilities for being able to lunge or it is unsafe.
 
oldvic said:
So if he needs 20 mins lungeing to be able to get on him, what happens when you want to take him places? There are often no facilities for being able to lunge or it is unsafe.
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I know. Hence why if it is a long term problem he is just not going to fit in with what I want to do. No, I've decided that unless I can have him for 3 months and work him correctly and see if as he conditions he stops, I'm not going near him. Such a shame, the potential he could have had :)
 
anna22 said:
I know. Hence why if it is a long term problem he is just not going to fit in with what I want to do. No, I've decided that unless I can have him for 3 months and work him correctly and see if as he conditions he stops, I'm not going near him. Such a shame, the potential he could have had :)
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I wish I had a spare £1000 as I have a spare stable and would love to take a punt on him. He has the potential to be fab but also the potential to be a money pit! I think you are doing the right thing - no lwvtb, no sale
 
Many good points above. It's all very well to say 'three months of the right work' but all sorts of things can happen in that time. If he has an underlying condition then that's no reason to say he WON'T improve, at least in the short term. I know all sorts of horses with problems that keep ticking with the right management and good riding. But that is a tricky game and they are still horses with problems. As I said before, if someone already has a horse I'm more hopeful than many people that a problem can be managed . But BUYING a problem is different. As above, if you are the kind of rider who has no budget but is tough, mentally and physically then maybe it's worth the punt. Only you can decide. I can almost guarantee though you will have frustrating and alarming moments.

I hate to tell you, too, but the sort of people who do that sort of thing, by preference or necessity, are usually not offering a condition-free "forever home". If you don't think you'll be tough enough to make a hard decision later then don't go down that road. It's nothing to be ashamed of either way, but part of being a good trainer is knowing your own strengths and weaknesses.
 
Im sorry to hear that its not gone the way you had hoped.

I know you keep saying that he's a lovely horse and in the right price range, but there will be another just as lovely horse within your budget waiting for you somewhere. Just keep looking. :)
 
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