Poultry: "Hens" I bought have turned out to be cockerells!!

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

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In July this year; I bought three young bantams, Silver Pencilled Wyandottes, from a well-respected breeder and took them home.

They were young (13 weeks I think they said they were) and I've had them maturing over the summer & autumn. During that time I've been watching them develop, and had a sneaking suspicion that they weren't all developing at the same stage, shall we say......

HOWEVER, today, when I let them out of their hutch, one of them was behaving VERY like a cockerell!!!, i.e. chummying up to the hens and dancing around them, and its getting very noticeable that two of the three I bought are developing wattles and combs.

I accept that these fowls were young when I bought them and that the onus was on me as buyer to check the sex (as far as its possible to do so at that age); BUT I can't help feeling I've been had!!

I've rung the breeder and left a message on their answerphone. They seemed good honest people who are genuinely interested in their poultry so I am giving them the benefit of the doubt that this was a genuine error.

However, I am wondering what people think so opinions/thoughts please:

Am I entitled to either a refund OR replacement bird (I'm not fussed what breed, just hens is what I wanted). These birds cost £15 each and I'm left with two cockerells which I shall have to cull and are therefore worthless.

IF after we've spoken on the phone, they refuse to either refund or replace, would I be unreasonable to threaten to go to Trading Standards? After all, these birds are "not as described" neither are they "fit for purpose" (but lets hope it doesn't come to that).
 

Ladyinred

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Unless an auto-sexing breed, then chicks are incredibly difficult to sex. It's down to .01% educated guess and 99.99% luck! If they are reputable breeders then they will most likely change them for you.

My daughter breeds RIR's, various Marans and Buff Orpingtons. Last spring she sold a RIR trio to a local man, several weeks later he brought back the cockerel, complaining loudly that he 'didn't realise it was going to crow!!' He then asked daughyter to knock it on the head so he could eat it! She refused and refunded his money and told him never to buy from her again!
 

jendie

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It can be very difficult to sex birds in some breeds until they are mature. I've made the mistake several times myself and have now come to the sad conclusion that any eggs we hatch will be male, even if I don't realise it until they start crowing >g< We do get the odd female, but by and large all newcomers are male. They stay though, couldn't bear to eat them, and they get along very well together.
 

pastie2

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Sorry to laugh, but I just did. I have hatched chickens and can tell within 2 weeks the cocks from the hens. The cocks have a little bit of comb a long time before the hens. Good luck. Name and shame these dealers of bantams!!!!!! Thats what I say!!
 

MissTyc

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Our little bantams are mostly recognisable at about 2-3 weeks, though mistakes remain fairly common ... A lady I know takes all returned cockrels and keeps them together as a group :D
 

sami4971

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Hmm, as somebody who bought 6 teeny chicks at the pub I worked at, which all turned out to be Cockerals, I have certainly been there! Most reputable breeders should offer you either a swap or refund, however it really does depend on what they were sold to you as. If they sold to you without referring to the sex of them, then really it is your problem not theirs I'm afraid (Still, some breeders will still offer you a swap), but if they sold them as young pullets then they were missold.

Good luck!
 

The Bouncing Bog Trotter

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Any good breeder should take back the boys - unless they told you specifically when you bought them that they don't do refunds or swops. As others have said, some breeds of bantams are tough to sex until they are almost mature, and some can be done at birth. What you are going through is really common - check out any chicken forum and there are loads of posts on this topic.

If they don't take them back you have a two choices - noisy pets or coq au vin. Please be very careful about giving them away (it's great that you've not put that as an option you are considering). A lot of people answering ads for free boy birds use them for fighting :(. Another option may be to advertise them on a poultry forum - they are unusual birds and there maybe someone looking for an unrelated cock.
 

skewbald_again

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very easily done, we would replace the boys with girls, and either take the boys back or let you keep them.
As someone above said, unless they're auto sexing, it's really hard to tell.
 

WelshD

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I breed Wyandottes, some colours are easier to sex than others

SP are hard to sex in general, its not made easier by the fact that breeders will often have two lines of SP - cock breeding and pullet breeding - chicks bred from the latter pen will show more classic SP pullet markings and therefore be harder to sex (the object being that males bred from a pullet breeding pen will be no good for showing but will throw better exhibition females - it gets a bit technical!!)

Some breeds are dead easy to sex - I can sex Pekin bantams at a few days old but other breeds and sometimes even the colours within that breed vary - If the breeder was experienced in SP they should have probably known the sex by 13 weeks but its not absolutely impossible that they didnt know

The question of a refund depends on whether they were sold to you as definite pullets or not - if they were sold as unsexed then you dont really have a leg to stand on

In saying that if I was the breeder and had sold them as unsexed I'd probably take both males back and give you one female as a gesture of goodwill but then I dont rely on my birds to make me any money!

From a practical point of view many breeders wind right down for the winter so they may not actually have any females to offer at the moment
 

Dolcé

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as someone who has far too many cockerels (8,but am far too soft to cull) I really sympathise with you, I would try taking them back and see where it gets you, hopefully they will do the right thing and change them for you. I recently hatched some white/gold silkie chicks and am so lucky to have only got 2 boys out of 6 but now need to re-home the boys if I can, one is a beautiful example but the gold isn't quite so nice so he may be a problem, I cannot bear the thought of killing one of my own babies so will just keep him.
 

Spyda

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Hmmm... don't know what to add really except that I bought two Pekin bantams in the summer (a lavender hen and a black cockeral). They were 12 weeks old at the time and definitely sexable by that stage. The black one had a bigger wattle and comb.

Also, I read somewhere that the developing feathers on the wings of Bantams can be used for sexing, from just a couple of weeks old. It works as soon as their feathers come through on the wings: The female has 4 rows of feathers and the male has 2 rows. All varieties of Bantam have the same feather growth, apparently. You can count the rows as they stretch their wings out.

Not sure if this works with other types of chicken though? Anyone know?

OP, I'd contact the people you bought them from and explain your situation. Hopefully they will be willing to help you out by taking back at least one of the boys and switching him for a hen bird (if they have one left, at this time of year). Best to have just the one cockeral if you've only a few birds anyway.
 
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Clodagh

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In pullet breeding SPs, which are what about 95% of them are now the boys are very easy to sex as they are a completely different colour to the hens, you can definately tell by 6 weeks. They should replace or refund them, I breed dottes and I would.

Not doubting you but in the breeders support if they are silver laced, not pencilled, they are harder to tell!
 

juliette

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A family member gave my daughter 3 partridge silkies in the summer and she was very careful to select girls but we still ended up with one girl and 2 boys! We managed to re-home one to a lovely local home so they are out there if you try and make it clear on your advert what home you will consider.

We have bought a couple more girls from a local lady and she is great as if you find your girls are actually boys she is happy to take the boys back and replace with girls.
 

PerryThePony

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The exact same thing happened to my family! Thought we'd get some chickens, went to the local poultry sale, bought 'three bantam hens' ... all was well, then one morning we heard crowing, obviously we were miffed, then they started getting more aggressive, i remember one of them chasing me round the garden! But long story short the place we got them from were really good, took the three boys back and gave us to hens, which did stay as hens!
 

Ravenwood

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OP - why don't you enter the cockeral in the next Hatherleigh Market, sell it and buy a replacement hen. Unfortunately though the price of chicken has plummeted due to the rise in the cost of corn at the moment.

I was at Cutcombe poultry market recently and an awful lot of bantams didn't sell at all - so it may be best to wait until the Spring when the market has picked up a bit.

Take it on the chin OP, it happens all the time ;)
 

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

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OK everyone so an update:

I managed to get hold of the breeder; she was a tad prickly at first and said why hadn't I noticed before?!! TBH I had thought I'd got all hens which was why I hadn't really figured out what the F...< was happening!!

Anyway, end result is that come the Spring when she has some young birds she said she'd give me two more pullets. But could I take some piccies of the "cockerells" - prefereably all three birds together, which I will do as soon as I can get out and get some more batteries for my digi camera .....

Unfortunately she won't take the cockerells back, so will have to advertise them locally.

Blimmin' nuisance!
 

lavery834

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i watched program a while back and they were very quickly sexing newly hatched chicks for eating,egglaying.this was done on a conveyor belt and they streched a wing out to look at the feathers.i think female feathers were all one length,male chicks feathers had alternate length along the wing.if this is the same with all the breeds then sexing can be done with (100%)accuracy.
 

WelshD

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i watched program a while back and they were very quickly sexing newly hatched chicks for eating,egglaying.this was done on a conveyor belt and they streched a wing out to look at the feathers.i think female feathers were all one length,male chicks feathers had alternate length along the wing.if this is the same with all the breeds then sexing can be done with (100%)accuracy.

Yes this can be done, at a day or so old the female has two rows of feathers that are different lengths on their wings, the males also have two rows but they are the same length as each other

Its not 100% accurate and the window of opportunity to check is very very small, really up to a couple of days old and after that its too late
 
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