POY and child show jumpers.

baily said:
thank you for the QR meaning...clears that up...
Any way pony and child came 12th today...just rolled a pole in the jump off and had the fastest four faults...so really pleased with them both...12th out of almost 100 aint bad..
she is feeling very nervous about the grand prix tomorrow...but as long as they both have fun and finish safely i don't care if there placed or not its just been a fab weekend and we have all had fun and learn't alot
good luck to everyone else taking part in whatever event there doing this weekend
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Good luck for today, Baily :)

Regards the general point on spurs and tack, unless you know the pony and rider involved, you can't really say what's suitable and what's not.......ultimately the safety of the partnership has to come first.
 
I think we would all agree, it would be lovely to see the ponies in snaffles, doing a masterclass with balanced canter and the perfect jump. However, we are dealing with excitable ponies that WANT to win themselves, often keen and hot headed. Some have been broken in by children or inexperienced adults as they were the only ones that were small enough. In a perfect world they would be perfect little mounts, speeding up with the gentlest of touches, slowing down with the slightest touch. The child is the tiniest child (allowing for the best aero dynamics) ever with the strength of an ox :rolleyes:
Of course my daughter had the strength but, unfortunately, at 14 was 5'8" tall and now has a 17HH Hannovarian, arrgh!!
The ponies we breed are bred for ability, strength and speed. With that comes some spark and not every child will be capable of riding our ponies!
Well done Baily and good luck with the future :)
 
I think a lot of kids are bought push button 'perfect' PC ponies and therefore adults expect to see all kids riding in a snaffle. It doesn't work like that, as Waterbourne pointed out, most ponies are broken by children as finding a small and light enough adult can be difficult. The result is often ponies who are bred for talent but that haven't been broken properly. Not a good mix with a pony brain! I'd much rather these ponies be bought by families that KNEW what they were doing and gave the pony a future even if it means sticking them in a 3 ring gag. There's plenty of 'amateur' adults who ride in strong bits, difference being at this level these children have money invested in their riding and ponies so often their riding is ten times that of the amateur adult. Lets not forget SJ riding is a hell of a lot different to classical riding, and so their positions may not look neat and tidy, but then neither do those of the professionals.
Hats off to any kid brave enough to get ANY pony round one of those courses. I had a JA pony on loan through my teens and it was the biggest sh** I have ever ridden. Of course, in those days you rode in a pelham or a snaffle, and anyone who dare ask why a 14hh pony was ridden in a pelham was offered a ride. Of course, they'd get on, touch his sides and be on their backside within seconds.....
 
QR

It's a difficult one. Previous posts are correct in saying that you can't judge what tack a pony needs, nor the graft that has gone on behind the scenes.

However, noone can deny the ugly element. I BSJA'd as a child - i saw parents beating ponies AND children for losing, children sworn at, denied dinner as punishment. I've seen kids with bruises, and ponies with bleeding marks. The problem isn't with child show jumpers, but the parents of child show jumpers. It's the soccer mum syndrome but to the extreme. Kids of said parents invariably ended up treating their horses the same way, and ended up burning out after a few successful seasons.

These ponies were also not trained with care and consideration - they were bought for £50,000+, a ridiculous price when the most a child would win was upto £5000. Money and achievement weren't the aims - just one upmanship, glory and success whatever the cost to child or animal.

Obviously this is not always the case, as I say I BSJAd on my common-as-muck ponies, but not to POY level as there was no way I could afford overnight stabling and entry fees on my saturday job wage! But i have friends who did and still do jump at this level, who are beautiful riders.

Ultimately, I think the issue lies with BSJA themselves. they seem to encourage the behaviour with the atmoshpere and pressure they show at the events and in the newsletters. Everything is so expensive for juniors, that only the ones who have parents willing to spend tens of thousands on a pony - more than the child can win back - can compete, meaning more and more ugly scenes.

People moan about what top footballers are paid, but at least they act with more decorum than what is seen at many junior events. BSJA needs to look long and hard at the chavvy blingy reputation they are creating for themselves, and invest in encouraging old-fashioned horsemanship, encouraging equality and diversity with classes for kids on mounts that have not been on european teams the past 10 years or who cannot afford 'stay away' shows. Because I do believe that the "I have more money than you" blingyness is linked to the snotty-success-at-any-cost environment.

An before anyone starts, one of my best friends through my childhood had a JA european teams pony, a very rich family and did very well, and deserved everything she won. It's not about money, it's about the atmosphere and mental state of competitors.
 
I agree with many points made in this thread, but I do also think a lot of the time what the pony wears is down to the parent/trainer. As a child showjumper my trainer put a martingale, gag snaffle (with only one rein!), grackle and spurs on us to showjump. My pony was a very laid back type which could bronc you into high heaven if he wanted - whether my trainer decked me out for health & safety or to win is debatable.

I still have the same pony ten years later and I'm frankly embarrassed that at the age of 10/11 I didn't have the ability/guts to make decisions myself. For years he's now worn a simple snaffle and doesn't need a martingale or noseband other than a normal cavesson (which is only because he looked like a funny western pony in the many years he didn't wear one.) He's still laid back and still has a good buck in him on the rare occassion he cares to show me - I just reached an age where I realised that he doesn't need gadgets for that.
 
QR
Re the incident where the girl fell off, I think the organisers have some responsibility. If the volume is turned up on the music, it is only to encourage the children to go faster on the lap of honour, as the adults in charge, they really ought to give it more thought perhaps?
 
Bless her, it must have been a shock for both horse and rider to fall, glad they were both unhurt x
 
"Ultimately, I think the issue lies with BSJA themselves. they seem to encourage the behaviour with the atmoshpere and pressure they show at the events and in the newsletters. Everything is so expensive for juniors, that only the ones who have parents willing to spend tens of thousands on a pony - more than the child can win back - can compete, meaning more and more ugly scenes. "

I agree BSJA should look at shows such as POY, health and safety would not be something that was high on the agend more getting throught the vast numbers of children. In BD and BE there are rules as to tack allowed should the BSJA impliment a ruling like this? They also have ruling as to competitor dress? Therefore people are dressed similarly no matter how much money one has!!!!
 
It isn't just BSJA either, it is happening at unaffiliated level too.
We were saddened and disgusted at the attitude of some parents at a competition we attended last week.
What is wrong with people that fun has gone out of it and winning is the ultimate? I know we all compete to win but to behave like some of them do nowadays, I find it offensive.
 
Personally I think children do very well, look at a 128 Grand Prix .. it can range from 1.10 - 1.25 ... the majority of people here can't even jump that now, as adults in the competitive way they do ... they are UNDER 12 .. on little small ponies ..

Ponies need to be sharp, quick thinking and ready to get the riders out of trouble. Small children who aren't extremely strong ... they need help from spurs/stronger bits.

Could all the people who responded to this critically please think for a minute,

Can any of you jump a course the size of a 148 Grand Prix so competively like us pony riders can ? (1.40)

And are all your horses perfectly schooled in snaffles, running martingales and are you all the perfect riders?

I am a pony rider, and my 3 main ponies are ridden in snaffles and running martingales, but that is because they are well schooled ponies and NO, I do not have someone to do it for me, I am trained by one of the best event riders who has taught me how to school ponies properly.

We have other ponies who are ridden in gags and waterfords etc ... and they are ridden by people younger than me .. and i certainly wouldn't ride them in anything less .. and i ride horses aswell!!!

So the people here who even take it out on international riders ... lay off us pony riders, most of you couldn't do as good ... it takes guts to jump those big fences.

I'm sorry this is awfully long, but someone needed to do it!
 
I am not taking anything away from pony riders but i do not agree with a running and standing martingale on at the same time no matter what?
 
Thank you to everyones point made in this thread...POYS has been a great weekend for us and our daughter...she and her pony have learnt so much and done so well...even if they had'nt been placed they would still be coming home with a wealth of knowledge from they time away...
they managed a well done 14th in the grand prix today...as well as two wins and a 12th in the week...not bad for a pair just starting out in the world of bsja.
I certainly don't have £50000 to spend on a pony for my child and even if i did i would'nt as she learns so much more having young ponies that have nothing but raw talent an a lot of attitude.and i'm luckly if i can afford £2000 on them and thats with tack!!....everything she has brought on has been below the age of 4yrs old bucked reared or just never seen a fence in there lives(just like the new 4yr old toad sitting in the stable at home waiting for her to come home and work him)..
these kids that jump all the time at this level do so well. just watch them walk the course in a 128 class...most of the kids and ponies are half the size of the fences..
good luck and hats of to all the junior riders out there
 
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