PPID

ElectricChampagne

ElectricChampagne

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Starting to think my gelding has PPID..
He's 10, never had laminitis, but he drinks a lot, is difficult to keep weight on and has gone a bit pot bellied and swaybacked almost in the last few weeks.



He's barefoot and on a diet of beet, chaff and brewers yeast. He's also got hay, but not half as much as I would like if I'm honest. Barely enough to last him 30 minutes.


Am I over reacting? I think the yard might be reducing his feed cos the grass is good, but I'm not sure.


He hasn't got the curly coat, but does get sweaty, and he's very buzzy, always forward going, and he is far from lethargic. I've never had issues with him getting colds or infections and when he gets a cut or a graze it heals fine. He's up to date on his worming, and otherwise seems at the full of his health.


I understand the only way to know for sure is to have him tested, but am I way off in thinking I should?
 
He certainly has some signs and it could be worth getting the vet out to see if it is worth testing, I would be just as concerned about ulcers if I am understanding correctly that he is in at night with only enough hay to last 30 mins and you think the yard is reducing his feed as well.

If he were mine I would give him a week on ad lib hay and see if he picks up before getting a vet as being starved, which he is if he is in overnight with no hay for 10-12 hours, is enough to make most horses look pot bellied, drop weight off their topline and if their tummies start to feel empty could mean they drink to try and fill up on something, drinking excessively will pull them down further and can happen fairly quickly.

Why does a horse that is difficult to keep weight on have restricted hay? if this is due to the yard I would either insist on him having more or move before it becomes a real welfare issue, I feed my liveries adlib unless they are really needing restricting as it is so much better for them if not my pocket.
 
meleeka said:
The test is simple and will put your mind at rest, or at least give you the information you need. It's worth it for that I think.
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This, the test is currently free.
My mare never held onto her coat, in fact she always was the first of our 4 to show signs of moulting but she did drink a lot and had a very wet bed. She tested borderline the first time and then positive on re-test. She has reacted really well to Prascend and is doing extremely well atm.
Years ago, I lost a 6 yr old to what I now believe to be PPID but despite having a vet involved for over 3 months, she was never tested and developed laminitis.

Just a word of caution about beet. 2 of ours were put on Speedibeet to maintain their weight and after a few weeks became very footy. We took them off it and a week or so later, they were back to rock-crunching.
 
I'm afraid the test isn't free for me as I am on the Emerald Isle :( but still It might be worth doing.

I do think he has ulcers, and I am not sure why he has been restricted on his hay intake if I am brutally honest. The excuse given was there's too much grass. (theres some but not a huge amount) I had made up a DIY slow down hay feeder and started putting in haynets to slow his intake down, but the feeder kept getting broken (not sure how) and I ended up having to move it. Then he was moved stable to somewhere where there is nowhere to tie a haynet to. So he gets 30 mins worth on the floor. I'm really really not happy about that and I am starting to wonder if he is only getting out for 3 hours or less a day.

He is also on speedy beet, and I have noticed him being a bit footy lately too, I never connected the two, thanks for that.

I am absolutely convinced he has ulcers but never had him scoped. He does show the signs of it for sure and I am trying to treat his as if he does, ad lib hay (sigh I am getting caught here) and no molasses or sugary feed. I do have him on pro-and prebiotics too and try to get as much fibre into him as possible. he seems to do well when that happens.

He is stressy too, but usually ok when my mare is nearby as they are very bonded.

He gets alfa alfa chaff too, could that be an issue? I've started trying to supplement him with a treat ball filled with grass nuts to give him something to do and get more feed into him. I've also started him on a small amount of copra as an extra after I ride.

Maybe I am over-reacting and should be looking at the yard practices? Although I do think there is something else going on, be it I'm not getting the full story about his care or he has PPID...

If I am honest, the mare has gone pot bellied too, but she is an exceptionally good dooer and lives on air. She's not on speedy beet and is not footy at all, though she is barefoot.

Should i just give them both a month off out on grass then re-assess yard and all?
 
I would be looking to move yard, whatever is wrong it is not being helped by the restricting of hay. limited turnout and you having little idea of what is going on, if he has ulcers turning him away should help and may allow you time to find a better yard before winter, if the mare is also looking different it suggests corner cutting, what do the other liveries look like as I usually think all horses in the same place look similar with a few at the ends of the scale, everything here is in similar condition, not too fat and certainly not poor in mid summer.
 
I would move to a different yard and then re-assess tbh. But I would NEVER allow a horse to spend almost 12 hours with nothing to eat. I think it is ridiculous that you are having to feed copra while he is only getting such a tiny amount of hay.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I would move to a different yard and then re-assess tbh. But I would NEVER allow a horse to spend almost 12 hours with nothing to eat. I think it is ridiculous that you are having to feed copra while he is only getting such a tiny amount of hay.
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I absolutely agree here, it really really annoys me that I have to. Along with the treat balls for both of them.

I am furious over the hay thing too. However I am more annoyed I didn't move sooner. However options are crap where I am and I was a bit worried about my job, however this seems to be stabalising.

Ok, so Grass it is, turn them both away for a month and let them be horses. Take it from there.

Now to find grass livery - its pretty non existent where I am..

Thanks all for the advice and help. It really brought me back to the conclusions I had, but just wanted to be sure I wasn't being silly
 
Its slightly different here in that DIY on Grass is considered Grass, so pretty much one and the same here. land is exceptionally expensive in my area and 24/7 turnout is few and far between so means travelling. Which is fine, I have done a bit of a search and have a couple of options I'm going to look into. Even Full livery yards are tight on space and turnout during the day in full or DIY livery is difficult to find and often very restricted, and fields can be fairly sparce of grass and mucky.

Here's a pic of the poor fella, I'm just not happy with him. He has a long back anyway. I got quite a shock when I saw him.
15s4v1v.jpg


He did lose a lot of weight back in March/April, to the point of him looking like a welfare case but at the time, the yard seemed happy to help get him back on track. Not so much now.
 
ElectricChampagne said:
Its slightly different here in that DIY on Grass is considered Grass, so pretty much one and the same here. land is exceptionally expensive in my area and 24/7 turnout is few and far between so means travelling. Which is fine, I have done a bit of a search and have a couple of options I'm going to look into. Even Full livery yards are tight on space and turnout during the day in full or DIY livery is difficult to find and often very restricted, and fields can be fairly sparce of grass and mucky.

Here's a pic of the poor fella, I'm just not happy with him. He has a long back anyway. I got quite a shock when I saw him.
15s4v1v.jpg


He did lose a lot of weight back in March/April, to the point of him looking like a welfare case but at the time, the yard seemed happy to help get him back on track. Not so much now.
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Yes that is rather different from English terminology. I must have missed in your OP, did you say that you had left him for some time purely in the care of the livery yard?
Fingers crossed that you get him back to normal soon.
 
From that pic he doesn't scream ppid and I think it could be the other stuff described going on. I would change his regime and see at this point I think.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Yes that is rather different from English terminology. I must have missed in your OP, did you say that you had left him for some time purely in the care of the livery yard?
Fingers crossed that you get him back to normal soon.
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I have him on full livery and I get down 4 times a week, not always to ride but at a minimum to groom and check over. My job can often times have me staying late which is why I do Full. The yard closes now at 7pm on weekdays which is quite restrictive too. Particularly as I am working often times to 5pm as normal hours and more often later as I need to cover overtime.
The YM has been off with someone else looking after the yard for the last 2-3 weeks and the care has deteriorated, less hay given (original amounts were not much either though) and I think turnout and feed reduced for reasons I mentioned already.

The current carer regularly takes over though and did suggest that I should not be taking extra hay when I took some despite my protests of possible ulcers and losing weight.
Anyway my focus is my horses.

ester said:
From that pic he doesn't scream ppid and I think it could be the other stuff described going on. I would change his regime and see at this point I think.
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Thanks esther, that does put my mind at ease. I do have another pic of him on a very slight incline and to be honest it scared me more and made him look very very deformed. I did get a fright when I saw him that way.
 
gunnergundog said:
Do a Succeed test to eliminate/confirm ulcers - you're talking £30 and it covers both gastric and colonic ulcers.
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I wasn't aware that this was this side of the world, although not sure I can get it in Ireland, I've never heard of it here. Must look into that, thanks :)
 
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