Praise or Punish???

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*starfish*

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I have a naughty little JRT who loves exploring and will go off for hours when we are up the stables. Now 50% of the time he will come back when I call him - he will be in the woods which backs onto our yard - however the other 50% of the time he will be so ignorant and not return. I can go looking for him and find him and he will look at me and run off in the other direction.

When he does return what should I do??? Tell him off for not coming back when called or praise him for finally coming back??
 
You have to praise them when they do come back albeit through gritted teeth, I wouldnt ever let a dog off a lead with such poor recall as you may never see them again. Go back to basics, get a long line and work from there, you've been lucky up until now so you need to do some serious training.
 
Dobiegirl said:
You have to praise them when they do come back albeit through gritted teeth, I wouldnt ever let a dog off a lead with such poor recall as you may never see them again. Go back to basics, get a long line and work from there, you've been lucky up until now so you need to do some serious training.
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Thank you for your reply. My dog is extremely well trained when he is in dog mode (over the park, at home etc) however being a terrier his natural instinct is to hunt, and I wouldn't take that away from him, he only will do this at the stables as there are lots of scents for him to chase. He is a very clever dog and he cannot get onto any roads or he wouldn't go up to a person he doesn't know.
 
*starfish* said:
Thank you for your reply. My dog is extremely well trained when he is in dog mode (over the park, at home etc) however being a terrier his natural instinct is to hunt, and I wouldn't take that away from him, he only will do this at the stables as there are lots of scents for him to chase. He is a very clever dog and he cannot get onto any roads or he wouldn't go up to a person he doesn't know.
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I personally would agree with Dobiegirl, I don't think any dog should ever be allowed to just go off and roam. I've got a neighbours dog who often goes off for a hunt about - we have almost hit it numerous times on the road, it has spooked my horse as I was about to get on her (when she was very newly backed as well so bloody dangerous!) and I've had to spend £250 fencing in our back patio because it would come over to our garden and began encouraging my dog to escape! I've been delaying hacking out my horse because I worry about meeting this dog when out - its not agressive but it does leap out of hedges and scares the hell out of me. Someone else might be out in the woods when your dog is out - they might have an agressive dog on a lead and your one could trot up to it. Someone could be riding etc. Really, its your dog and should be under your full control at ALL times. Dont take it to the yard if you can't keep it under control? Our dog ran off twice out on walks, once into a field of cows - that was it, never again. When she's outwith our field she is on a lead at all times.
 
Dogs live for the moment - that moment, right there. If you yell at them when they come back, you know you're cross because it took them ages. But as far as they're concerned, you are a mad person screaming and yelling because they came back, and they certainly aren't going to risk that one again!

Rather than letting your dog hunt at will, try and make it into a game that it can play with you - that way, you are worth being around. Hide things for him to find (like food or toys) and teach him to seek them out. That way he gets to exercise his instincts, and you don't lose your dog to a gamekeeper's or farmer's gun, or a car, or a badger sett, or someone looking for a bait dog...
 
Spudlet said:
Dogs live for the moment - that moment, right there. If you yell at them when they come back, you know you're cross because it took them ages. But as far as they're concerned, you are a mad person screaming and yelling because they came back, and they certainly aren't going to risk that one again!

Rather than letting your dog hunt at will, try and make it into a game that it can play with you - that way, you are worth being around. Hide things for him to find (like food or toys) and teach him to seek them out. That way he gets to exercise his instincts, and you don't lose your dog to a gamekeeper's or farmer's gun, or a car, or a badger sett, or someone looking for a bait dog...
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Yeah that is a good idea. I will play ball with him from now on. My dogs are my babies and I wouldn't let any harm come to them. If I thought there was any way they could be taken/stolen/ or injured I wouldn't let them out my site.

I tend to ignore him when he returns - I don't yell even though I really want to lol
 
Definitely praise when he comes back, much as you may want to batter him! :) However I'm with the posters above, if he was my dog he would be kept on a long line if I wasn't able to keep on top of him and stop him when he though of going off hunting. I do know what it is like, we have a little dog who would (and has) gone off hunting at the first opportunity, if he is not in an enclosed field, or I am able to give him 100% attention so I can stop him going off then he is on a long line or flexi lead. As Spudlet says, its not just the risk of going on roads that can be a danger to dogs going off on their own.
 
You need to start to think like a dog, not a mother indulging a naughty child!

You and the dog are a pack. The dog will instinctively wander off to hunt. Your calling is just a nuisance unless it means something to his benefit. Shouting when he chases something can just as well be interpreted as encouragement to hunt harder to a dog! Your calling tells him where you are so he has no need to return and check. If he does come back, he gets a cold reception. So why should he? Try greeting him as if it was the first time you've seen him in ten years! Make a fuss of him, play with him, let him chase a ball or pull at a rag, then send him off again! If you were a dog, would you come to call knowing your play time would instantly be over and you'd go back on the lead? Watch for when he looks towards you and give a call and change direction. Try to call LESS!

Try being less predictable. If dog goes to the right, you go to the left. If the dog runs ahead, you call quietly, just once, then hide behind a tree. Keep a squeaky toy for very special occasions, but use it perhaps once only on your walk and make it a big event. Show him where a rabbit has scraped a fresh hole or turn up a log and look for mice.

If you can think more like a dog, you will have no problem with recall. How do you think the huntsman of your local pack manages to get 40 odd couple of hounds to follow him?

I haven't answered the part of your question about punishment. Do you really believe that punishing a dog will make it keener to be with you?
 
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I think it is very irresponsible to let your dog clear off and go `feral`

I had this problem a few months ago- my dog was sneaking off through a small gap in the hedge to a neighbours wood where deer live and and squirrel traps are.

calling and calling is no good cos they know where YOU are and just switch off.

when my dog came back I praised him and then ignored him for a while. (he hates being ignored and that is the only punishment I would use)


now-unless I can give him 100% attention at the yard I tie him up as I saw a habit I did not want forming. (that is- me busy and him off entertaining himself lol)
 
Its worth spending time on recall for a treat, then letting him go again. Somewhere safe obviously! That way recall isnt being caught every time, its just a little thing which means something good.
 
Dry Rot said:
You need to start to think like a dog, not a mother indulging a naughty child!

You and the dog are a pack. The dog will instinctively wander off to hunt. Your calling is just a nuisance unless it means something to his benefit.
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As above!

At the moment all the dog is learning is that all the fun things in life (chasing rabbits, hunting mice, digging out other furries etc etc) happens when he is away from you and on his own. Your role, as he sees it, is to terminate his fun! Sooooooo..........in addition to all the advice above I would say that you need to become a part of the hunt - your dog has to learn that you know where all the best places are and that you are an interested member of the hunt! :)

Pick a day when you have no time restrictions and take him somewhere where there is a big rabbit warren or similar - something that will really float his boat. Let him go off sniffing, digging, whatever. Go with him, make stupid excited noises ' oooooooo, what've you got there? Where's the bunny? etc etc' If he even looks at you, praise big time. You may want a line on him to start with for the next bit......shout 'this way' and march off taking him to somewhere with even better, fresher holes and let him continue doing his thing! Repeat, repeat, repeat ad nauseum until he registers that a) you are part of the hunt b) you actually know where there are some good hunting places and c) that you are not always putting him on the lead when he comes to you and terminating his fun.
 
I had one of those and a very good trainer told me shouting at them makes them not want to come back, praising shows them there are no consequences. He advised giving the cold shoulder for a hour or so. No eye contact and no speaking and say nothing to the dog.

I found by doing this when he refused to come back he turned into a dog that begged to be near me rather than running off. It took time though...

Another thing you can do is get a 'deaf dog' collar. They have a remote and vibrate. When they are in hunt mode they don't hear you but the vibrating collar can snap their concentration long enough for them to hear the recall command.
 
Well, I have four very different dogs. One pure collie and one collie cross, a labrador x rottweiller and a Jack Russell Terrier. I live down a no through road, have a huge garden and 99 acres beyond it. When we moved in, we went through our usual "boundary" training as the garden is not exactly secure, even Dan and I can get under the fence into the orchard and fields. So, day one, walk the dogs around the garden and any time any of them tried to go under the fence, a quick, "uh" from me and Dan and that's now known as a no go area. A couple of days of that and they learn that inside the garden is good, beyond the garden is no go. So, despite it being a large garden, much of which we can't easily see, they know not to go beyond...even the JRT when there is a rabbit...he won't go for it if it means going under the fence. He just knows. When we take them in the fields or if I take them up the forest, they get free rein to do what they want. I can recall, one whistle and they all come running from their various places of interest and they run back to me, kneeling down, arms open, telling them how good they are. They are never allowed to roam beyond 100 yards and never when others are around. When walking through the fields here....it's private, so no risk...so we let them do what they want and you know what....they never go more than about 100 yards from us. We just walk and they just follow. We change direction, they notice within seconds and come running to join us.

Think less about training and more about expecting and letting them know in no uncertain terms that when they come back to you, they are good. No need for treats or rewards, just a "good boy" and a fuss and that's it.

Also, we too easily mistake a dog not listening to us as a dog that can hear us, but is ignoring us. It's not always that cut and clear...when a dog is in the zone, it's just noise...so rather than a call which is human tone, a sharp whistle would be more effective.
 
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